Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
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jennypenny
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by jennypenny »

Rowe and Ferriss discussed the same thing on a recent podcast. Kevin Kelly said basically the same thing on the podcast I linked to in the 'listening' thread. Kelly's advice was to master something to use as a gateway to finding your passion. I liked the idea of mastering something that would give you the money, contacts, experience, etc. needed and then build from there to figure out what you're passionate about.

They (Rowe and Ferriss) also talked about how monetizing a hobby can kill your passion for it. Now that I've experienced that a couple of times, I have to agree with them.

They actually discussed a lot of ERE-related topics and were very funny. http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/05/04/mike-rowe/

tylerrr
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by tylerrr »

tonyedgecombe wrote:
SimpleLife wrote:I know lot's of poor arts majors. I don't have a passion for IT, but it helped me get ahead financially. Now I'm in a position that I can do what I want but I'm still sticking it out for now to get more of that sweet money that I sell my soul for. Get it while the getting is good and invest it for those rainy days.
Yet I suspect there are quite a few people on these forums who work in IT and are following ERE because they want to leave the field as soon as possible.

This is pretty much my story and it paid off financially. I retired after a 20 year career in the military as a commissioned officer within the IT field. For most of my career, I did IT work I didn't particularly enjoy that much. I enjoy being a developer, but unfortunately that never hardly fit into my job description as an IT project manager and supervisor of technicians.

Now, I have a lifetime pension and plenty of savings. I'm FIRE, but choose to work part time and I'm going to graduate school full time this Fall, which is paid for by the GI Bill(or I wouldn't even think of paying for Grad school out of pocket).

The point is...I almost got out of the military on several occasions because it wasn't "my passion", but whenever I did the math I knew a pension was extremely valuable long-term and I could delay pursuing passions on a more full time basis. One of my passions is drumming and I've gotten to improve dramatically after military separation and get to play in a jazz ensemble.

I would agree you should find a path where you can obtain some financial security and hopefully that will bleed over "some" with a passion.

I am so grateful that I decided to tough it out and complete my 20 years in the military. It was tough at times, but there's a huge payoff.

Dragline
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by Dragline »

This goes here -- from Scott Galloway, one of my favorite sarcastic presenters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJiw6MqmB5g

As he says to the OP question: "What bullshit!"

denise
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by denise »

I had a passion for what I do when I first started. Took a break for two years to take care of my mother, and my own health, and I just got back into it, but I don't have the same passion. I still like what I do, but after researching so much other stuff while out of the job market, not only do I not care for working anymore, I want to live my life differently than what an 8:30-5 allows. So I'm in the compromise phase, because I still need to reach FIRE.

I still like my chosen field. I'm just not passionate anymore. I worked part-time at a job completely unrelated to my field for 8 months and hated it. So, try to aim for something you like. Being miserable for a time for a future you may or may not live to see isn't great either. Try to find a balance. To do that, get to know yourself as quickly as possible, and take advantage of any opportunity that pops up, even if it seems unrelated or unlikely.

Or, if you have to miserable work, try to make life outside of it ideal as possible.

Compromise.

Farm_or
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by Farm_or »

YES!

"You're fired!" Was what I heard from my very first employer. (among other inappropriate explicitives). So, I started looking for another summer job at age 16.

"I heard that safeway is hiring." My dad told me over supper. "That's a good union job, with good pay."

And so I applied and when they responded, thought that I was going for an interview. To my surprise, the room was full of people. There must have been twenty people trying for the few open positions. I was the last to arrive, although I was ten minutes early, and they began the battery of tests. The first was mathematical, the second was dexterity. It was like placing shapes into cut outs on a board and it was timed.

I sailed through the mathematics okay, but the dexterity test seemed ridiculous to me. And all of this for a minimum wage job that I was not excited about? I wasn't motivated and gave half effort to the dexterity test.

"Before we proceed to the next test," the administrator stood up to say, "we will call every name that has passed so far. If we don't call your name, please leave with our best wishes, but we won't have a position for you."

Was I embarassed to be the only one leaving?! I wondered if I made a mistake, but my heart just wasn't in it. My dad, however, had fallen in love with his son being a good union worker like him.

"You are an idiot! You will never find another good union job like that in this town! You blew the only good chance you had because you're too stupid to try hard!"

"I don't care! I didn't want to be a stupid box boy anyway!"

The very next day, I went to town to apply for more jobs. The top of my list seemed to be a long shot, but I loved the industry, because I was already a bit of a motorhead. So I conjured up the courage to go there first. It was our local NAPA with a full machine shop in the back.

I swallowed hard stepping up to the counter to inquire for employment. As luck would have it, the manager was in ear shot and came out of his office to talk to me. My enthusiasm must have shown, because after a short Q and A, he asked me when I could start.

"How about right now?" And I was instantly hired at that time's dream job!

Campitor
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by Campitor »

In my life I've had my share of what other people would call "miserable" jobs: janitor, security guard, dishwasher, construction, etc. I'm currently employed in the high-tech industry earning an awesome salary and love my job.

I put "miserable" within quotes above because I was able to find joy in every one of those jobs. Every job has the potential for gamification or moments of beauty. When I was janitor my responsibility was to make sure the floors by the entrances and customer areas were spotless and waxed. Every night I would experiment with the water temperature and wax to see what combination would yield the cleanest floors and brightest shine (My gamification system at work). I stumbled across adding a small amount of wax to water that was roughly 100 degrees Fahrenheit. When I finished waxing the floor with this mix, the floors looked incredibly clean and had a mirror shine - the satisfaction and "flow" that I felt was amazing - it also reduced the amount of time that it took to clean and wax since I was doing both at the same time. The next day the CEO was talking to my boss and I heard him mention the floors I was responsible for. I thought I was in trouble for something since the CEO never talked to my boss before. I saw my boss pointing at me and the CEO looking directly at me. He walked over and shook my hand and told me that he has never seen the floors so clean or a mirror finish like the one I had achieved. He then turned to my boss and told him that under no circumstances was I to be transferred to any other janitorial duties and to bump up my pay by 50 cents an hour.

The security job sucked and was boring at first before I decided to make a game out of it. I took up people watching in earnest since it was part of my job. I started noticing things about people that I never noticed before like how different body types affect the way people walk. How certain ethnicity have similar leg structures therefore similar gaits and mannerisms. How couples who are fighting assume different body language. How people act and talk when angry, slightly drunk, annoyed, etc. How to spot shop lifters (empty bags, over-sized coats, too much head swiveling, staring at the cashier too much). I saw beautiful sunrises, amazing street performances, couples having sex in weird places thinking no-one could see them, and the cops playing cat-and-mouse with hookers, thieves, and troublemakers. The "boring" job became a front row seat to a human circus. I know what Shakespeare meant by "All the world is a stage".

I'm sure my current job will one day come to an end but I'm having a blast doing it like every other job I've had. Passion is not a passive item that is found nor is it an end goal to be captured like a trophy. Passion is like art - it only comes about when you create it, work at it, and practice it. Saying "follow your passion" is like saying "follow your art" - art isn't followed but made - you lead your art - you're art never leads you. YOU lead your passion - your passion should never lead YOU. I know this sounds corny but I've lived it every day of my life. All of my coworkers, past and present, always remark how happy I am and how incredible my work output is. I try to explain my gamification and passion philosophy but they only smirk at me and walk away shaking their heads. Learn how to create passion in all that you do and you will never be miserable again. Self made passion leads to success, monetary gain, and opportunities.
Last edited by Campitor on Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dragline
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by Dragline »

+1

Farm_or
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by Farm_or »

Great story! Awesome attitude!

Reminds me of the tale of two quarry workers:
The first laments that he's just breaking damned rocks, but the second worker exclaims proudly, "I am building a cathedral!"

CS
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:24 pm

Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by CS »

Of course I cannot find it, now that I want it, but I read a study a few years back that passion was correlated with the number of years on the job.

In other words, if you just started the job, you had little connection with it, but if you'd be doing it for twenty years, then it was more likely to be a calling.

The interesting part of this study was this: The correlation seemed to be higher than just random, i.e. it wasn't that the only people who stayed with their jobs were those that were passionate for that job from the start, but rather no one was passionate from the start, but those that stayed developed a deeper connection with their work.

Which is not at all how our culture portrays passion for a career.

FBeyer
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by FBeyer »

CS wrote:Of course I cannot find it, now that I want it, but I read a study a few years back that passion was correlated with the number of years on the job.

In other words, if you just started the job, you had little connection with it, but if you'd be doing it for twenty years, then it was more likely to be a calling.

The interesting part of this study was this: The correlation seemed to be higher than just random, i.e. it wasn't that the only people who stayed with their jobs were those that were passionate for that job from the start, but rather no one was passionate from the start, but those that stayed developed a deeper connection with their work.

Which is not at all how our culture portrays passion for a career.
Sooooooooooo, Stockholm Syndrome in the workplace?

CS
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:24 pm

Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by CS »

FBeyer wrote:
CS wrote:Of course I cannot find it, now that I want it, but I read a study a few years back that passion was correlated with the number of years on the job.

In other words, if you just started the job, you had little connection with it, but if you'd be doing it for twenty years, then it was more likely to be a calling.

The interesting part of this study was this: The correlation seemed to be higher than just random, i.e. it wasn't that the only people who stayed with their jobs were those that were passionate for that job from the start, but rather no one was passionate from the start, but those that stayed developed a deeper connection with their work.

Which is not at all how our culture portrays passion for a career.
Sooooooooooo, Stockholm Syndrome in the workplace?
Haha! Yes, probably that exactly. The known evil that the worker becomes so good at navigating...

vezkor
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by vezkor »

To the original point: it depends on your passion. In order to get to a sustainable place, you must accumulate enough claims on future goods that passive income can replace active income. If your passion is lucrative (and likely to remain lucrative for the accumulation phase) then Absolutely follow it tirelessly and become FI young.

If your passion is less valuable to society from a monetary standpoint, then put it on the backburner until you have the freedom afforded by FI to pursue it with the intensity you desire.

Always keep in mind that passions and desires often change throughout your life (all the more reason ERE is so important!) and one of the more terrible situations I can imagine myself in is one of being completely burnt-out of a career that I was initially very passionate about. Talk about losing your main source of enjoyment! Filling that void would be difficult.

James_0011
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Re: Is "follow your passion" the right advice to give people starting out?

Post by James_0011 »

No this is horrible advice. I wish someone had pointed this out to me when I was younger.

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