Halfmoon's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
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halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

THE HOMESTEAD/ACCUMULATION YEARS

SAVING MONEY (finally some relevance to ERE!)

Long before we started thinking about early retirement, DH and I were naturally frugal. He had raised his son alone from the age of 6 months, and he came from a wartime background of deprivation and loss. I had no such ERE pedigree, but I grew up in a frugal family*. I was also the primary (and often sole) wage-earner in my first marriage. My only splurge was eating out, and DH cured that by being a great cook.

*In truth: my stepmother was incredibly careful with money because her food budget had to cover unrecorded alcohol purchases. Lots of alcohol purchases.

Reading Jacob’s book would have been a revelation for us. In lieu of that, we practiced a number of frugal habits:

1. We didn’t pay outright for electricity. One might reasonably argue that we put capital into our batteries, hydro system, solar panels, controller and tankless water heater. We never calculated the return on these because being independent was an unquantifiable part of the equation (and capital improvements have always made more sense to us than incessant monthly payments). We did eventually port the solar equipment over to our new home in the mountains, so there’s that.

2. We didn’t pay for (or have) a phone until I started my accounting business. Then the phone became critical.

3. We didn’t eat in fancy restaurants, or eat out much at all. No need to pat ourselves on the back for this one; we just violently hated “fine dining” due to our own work experiences.

4. We bought very little in the way of new clothes or housewares. Thrift stores were the bee’s knees back then, but yard sales now blow those out of the water. No reason to buy new stuff (see @Ego).

5. We never drank in a public place. We didn’t drink at all for years, but either way, drinking in bars or restaurants is ludicrously expensive. I get that this might be worthwhile if you’re single and paying for social interaction, but still. Likewise for the whole wine snobbery thing.

6. We didn’t gamble, including buying lottery tickets (*one mortifying exception, to be discussed later). We did invest in the stock market, which could be considered gambling.

7. We didn’t buy new cars. All of our cars have been bought through Craigslist (or earlier print venues like the Little Nickel). I consider buying a new car the height of folly, but maybe I’m just missing the How-Cool-Is-This gene.

8. We NEVER EVER borrowed money. If we didn’t have cash to do something, we waited until we did. We loaned money on occasion, but that led once to a phenomenal crash-and-burn scenario that doesn’t make us look very smart. :cry:

9. We did as much as possible for ourselves. Anything we were remotely capable of doing, we tried. DH maintained and fixed all of our vehicles, equipment and appliances with me standing by reading manuals to him. (Reading the manuals was just self-preservation, because DH sees those as an absolute last resort. He prefers to wade in and wing it.)

10. We shopped grocery store sales. We never went to the store with a list of what we had to have. Instead, we bought what was on sale or marked down and tailored our meals around that. It didn’t hurt that we ate free at our restaurant job.

11. We were LUCKY. During our accumulation years, we were getting at least 10% on our bank deposits. Inflation and loan rates were also high, but we weren’t spending like everyone else or borrowing at all. We worked with a guy who had bought a couple of rental properties at **20%** interest and was in a world of hurt.

12. I’ve never worn jewelry, used makeup, had manicures or appreciated cut (dying) flowers. DH and I have always cut each other’s hair. Some people who know us might say that’s apparent. :lol:

13. We didn’t have any new kids. DH had his teenage son, but in my twisted mind creating a child is akin to buying a Lamborghini that has a 50% chance of spontaneously wrecking itself.

14. We spent less than $100 on our engagement/wedding. I don’t have exact numbers, but we paid $15 for a license, $35 to a woman who married us in her trailer and took a Polaroid photo for posterity, and maybe another $40 for pizza and a movie for DH, DS and me. We had committed ourselves long before, and this was just a formality for legal reasons. Our job didn’t allow married employees to work together, so we never bought engagement or wedding rings. After we quit, it just didn’t seem important. In fact, I find the whole idea of being presented with a diamond ring bought with our joint or soon-to-be-joint money insane. I told DH early on that he’d better not waste ~our~ money on something like that (not that he would have anyway).

Riggerjack
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by Riggerjack »

OK. These paralells are just getting creepy.

My wife and I live in the house we had moved onto land we cleared, I also have pics of the house on Manly Jenga Blocks.

But at no time did I sign up to be a less awesome copy of halfmoon. Our rock walls aren't as nice. We haven't built the garage yet, and while I have a backhoe, and I really like overbuilding, it never occurred to me to put it on the 2nd floor!

I think I may have a new goal... ;)

George the original one
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by George the original one »

> in my twisted mind creating a child is akin to buying a Lamborghini that has a 50% chance of spontaneously wrecking itself.

I think this will be my favorite quote!

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

@Riggerjack,

I'm pretty sure you could never be a less awesome copy of anyone. 8-) I always look forward to your posts on any subject because you have such a practical grasp of life.

FYI: we don't have a garage yet either. In fact, a few years back (I sadly can't remember the year, but you might) we were shoveling snow off our carport roof at 3:00 on Christmas morning because it wasn't engineered for a 3-foot dump in 24 hours. Before clearing the roof, we had to shovel in front of the carport so we could evacuate the vehicles sitting underneath. It was a memorable Christmas. We swore at the time to build a garage, but...

I tried googling Manly Jenga Blocks in hopes of seeing your house, and most especially the tile-lined/center-drained bathroom you mentioned in an earlier post. Alas, I came up with images that look like games and I'm pretty sure aren't your house. :(

George the original one
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by George the original one »

Jenga Blocks is the game which uses wood blocks shaped like the cribbing used to loft houses off their foundations, manly refers to their size (because, you know, from the male perspective, size does matter).

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

George the original one wrote:> in my twisted mind creating a child is akin to buying a Lamborghini that has a 50% chance of spontaneously wrecking itself.

I think this will be my favorite quote!
I'm so glad you like it, because I was sort of worried about offending someone. :D

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

George the original one wrote:Jenga Blocks is the game which uses wood blocks shaped like the cribbing used to loft houses off their foundations, manly refers to their size (because, you know, from the male perspective, size does matter).
Thanks, George! I'm going to make a wild guess that I won't actually see photos of Riggerjack's house on that site. Babe in the internet woods here. :oops:

Riggerjack
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by Riggerjack »

I'm not big on posting pics online. Not from security concerns, but because I am lazy, and usually posting from my phone, on my commute.

At some point, I'll start a thread, and link to it from here, I don't want to jack your journal.

We had a lot of snow at the end of 2008, I remember, because it delayed moving the house. But on whidbey, we would never get 3 feet of snow. I have saltwater within 2 miles on 3 sides, so we are warmer in winter, and cooler in the summer.

I'm guessing from your posts, you are near Monroe, and out of the base of the valley. But when you say 3 feet of snow, I start thinking further up the valley, Index? Of course I could have the wrong valley, and you don't need to reveal your location, I just like guessing.

I have rock envy. Your rock walls are sweet. My place is glacial till and sand. I feel a bit silly buying rocks, but have none of my own... Even gravel has to be trucked in from 2 hours away.

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

Riggerjack wrote: At some point, I'll start a thread, and link to it from here, I don't want to jack your journal.

I'm guessing from your posts, you are near Monroe, and out of the base of the valley. But when you say 3 feet of snow, I start thinking further up the valley, Index? Of course I could have the wrong valley, and you don't need to reveal your location, I just like guessing.
Feel free to jack my journal! My favorite part of this is starting a conversation with interesting people.

We live at the epicenter of the Puget Sound convergence zone. Just look at a weather map on a nice day in Seattle, and that one spot on the whole map where it's raining (or snowing) is our house. If you zoom in, you can see us giving the weather reporter the finger. :lol: We're also on top of a high hill (back east we would have called it a mountain, but here it's a hill), which means that we get more snow than most. There were many times when we'd be driving home from work in the rain on a winter morning, and less than a mile from home we'd run into snow. Nothing like having to get out and chain up the damn tires just to make it the last mile. That was back before most cars were all-wheel drive.
ffj wrote:I want to see the tower. :)
Haha! No tower porn until the part where we move to Eastern Washington. How am I going to get you to slog through the boring parts if I share the juiciest stuff first? :mrgreen:

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

THE HOMESTEAD/ACCUMULATION YEARS

GROWING THINGS

One of my photos above shows the greenhouse attached to the back of our house. It’s 36 feet long and 20 feet wide, with concrete walls at the base and glass-topped cedar for the rest.

The entire outside and inside of our house was lined with cedar except for the ceilings and kitchen, which were pine. We bought the cedar in slings directly from a sawmill, rough-sawn (not planed) because we found it natural and homey -- and cheap. We loved how warm the wood looked, but we didn’t realize how it would attract and lovingly retain cobwebs, dust and dog hair. The cedar walls laughed off attempts with broom, rag and even a generator-driven vacuum.

As long as I’m getting off topic here… Can someone explain to me why dogs will roll around outside in the dirt, come into the house and shake it all over the floor? I’ve never seen one roll around on a dirty floor, pick up a bunch of dirt and hair, then take it outside and shake. :?

So, back to the greenhouse. The glass panels were double-pane patio door inserts, bought directly from the factory. They lay on top of the unplaned cedar rafters, then another board was laid flat covering the edges of two adjoining panels and leaving just enough gap between them to screw the board down without breaking glass. The top board was covered with metal flashing that snapped on without screws. Lots of caulking, and we thought we had a class act.

Ah, but (you knew there would be a but) we failed to account for the varying behavior of glass, metal and wood in different temperature or moisture conditions. The glass also didn’t want to form a seal against the rough wood. It took a few years, but the greenhouse and the panels themselves eventually leaked. When water got between the two glass layers and froze, one layer would typically pop into a pile of tiny glass squares on the greenhouse floor.

SOMEONE with a mower and a weedwhacker also destroyed a few panels. I won’t mention names, but his initials are DH. ;) We replaced a lot of glass, but we finally gave in to reality and redid the whole thing with (ugh) plastic panels.

Back when the greenhouse was new and shiny, we began thinking about how to fill it up with fertile soil so we could grow delicious things. We found a dairy farmer in the valley who had a huge pile of rotted silage mixed with manure, and he was giving it away free (you load/haul). We took our old ¾-ton pickup truck and a couple of pitchforks, and we piled that dense, redolent mass into the truck as high as it would go. Then we drove home, backed up to the greenhouse doors and distributed it one wheelbarrow load at a time. We did this eight times in total, at which point we decided that we were sufficiently full of shit. :mrgreen:

Next, we spread a thin layer of soil on top and planted things. We knew the manure was aged enough not to outright burn the plants, but we didn’t realize the effect a nitrogen overdose would have on green growth. Our tomato plants looked like sci-fi mutants: dark green, bushy and pushing against the roof. No actual tomatoes, though. Same for everything else that needed to set fruit; it was too busy taking over the world to reproduce. Lesson learned.

A photo below of non-mutant greenhouse planting in year two. Now DH plots out numerous square beds instead of these rows. It’s been a process to learn what grows well under cover and what does better outside, but the greenhouse is now successfully providing us with more greens and herbs than we can eat.

Image

Riggerjack
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by Riggerjack »

Nice greenhouse.

Quick tip: as we get older, or rather, as I get older (DW is eternally young and graceful) I find labor saving devices are rarely worth the effort. However, there is a hand crank conveyor belt that attaches to your pickup tailgate. You attach, go pick up a load of gravel, compost, sand, bark, what have you. Then drive to where you want it, and slowly hand crank it forward to unload directly into your wheel barrow. If I were only unloading a yard of materials a year, it wouldn't be worth it. But since it cuts unloading labor by about a third to 2 thirds, it is great! Sold at harbor freight, about 60$ if I remember correctly. Your back will thank you. A great addition for road maintenance days... I've hauled and placed over 6 tons of 2" crushed gravel in a weekend, and the driving was what slowed me down.

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

Riggerjack wrote: as we get older, or rather, as I get older (DW is eternally young and graceful)
:lol: Smart husband.

I googled the truck bed conveyor belt. Where has this been all my life? I can't begin to count the hours we've spent unloading gravel or drain rock over the years. We have a little utility trailer, and I don't see why this wouldn't work with the trailer too. It's only $40 at Harbor Freight. I wonder if DH would consider this a romantic Christmas gift...

Farm_or
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by Farm_or »

I looked at those because I move a lot of firewood, broken bales, dirt, and gravel. Ended up getting a great deal on a dump trailer instead. It needed repairs. The seller was telling me it was a good deal if I knew a good weldor. "Yeah, I know someone that works cheap" (me)

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

Farm_or,

DH has always wanted to really learn welding, though he's only dabbled so far. Very useful skill. He bought the parts years ago to build a trailer, but life interceded.

Would you be willing to put a link to your new blog here? I enjoyed reading the entries; now it just needs some photos of your farm! If you already linked it elsewhere, then ignore this. And by the way...you claim not to be an engaging writer, but I respectfully disagree.

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC

A question about Amish frugality/DIY philosophy in @DPAnderson's intro page got me thinking about my encounters with Pennsylvania Amish (I know nothing about other areas). A few random observations:

1. They call all non-Amish "English", much as many Americans call all Hispanics Mexicans.

2. The "English" often call them Pennsylvania Dutch (meaning Deutsch, or German), though they're of Swiss origin and speak a Swiss dialect.

3. They have complex sets of rules regarding use of electricity, phones and motors that vary by community or church leader. Some of the work-arounds they've devised are ingenious.

4. They generally use horse-drawn carriages and are known for having beautiful horses that aren't treated as pets.

Despite having grown up in Pennsylvania, I had lots of misconceptions regarding the Amish until my father took DH and me to an auction/swap meet in Amish country. It was unforgettable.

Across from the dirt parking area were about 20 unadorned carriages with gorgeous horses hooked up to a rail provided for that purpose. The horses typically stood there for hours on auction day. We went first into the livestock auction, which was difficult for me to watch. I've seen livestock auctions before, but this one...moving on.

Then we walked around the swap meet. Some tables were obviously manned (womanned) by Amish, and they usually featured home-baked goodies. The biggest sellers were fresh whoopie pies. For those who have trudged through a whoopie-deprived existence:

Image

As delicious as it might appear, the whipped filling in this case was made from Crisco (or maybe even lard). Same went for all the other Amish baked goods: hydrogenated fats were king, maybe because they don't require refrigeration. DH and I fell into the trap of buying some, and we had to wipe our tongues with napkins like Tom Hanks in Big.

By far the best part was the produce auction. Yep...produce auction. There's a big old wooden building with peeling paint, and inside is a little stage with an auctioneer selling every imaginable vegetable. We didn't see any fruit, but maybe it was the wrong season. This guy takes the selling of vegetables as seriously as a Sotheby's auctioneer, and his patter is probably faster. People sit in a motley assortment of chairs or stand along the walls, bidding on one zucchini or a bushel as they prefer. Ladies scurry about filling the orders and taking money. Many of the chairs have names written with marker on the back, though there doesn't seem to be any territorial claim. My father and sister sat down, while DH and I stood in the back. I eventually noticed that the chairs father and sister were sitting in had the name "Becker" on them. Someone had scribbled out the bottom of the B on both names and added "head" to one, so the chair backs read "Pecker" and Peckerhead". I never wished so hard for a camera. :lol:

When the vegetables were exhausted, the auctioneer moved on to selling whoopie pie lots. True story.

I've only told half the Amish encounter* story, but this seems kind of long. To be continued.

*I should clarify that the produce auction was more about rural Pennsylvania than Amish. Next chapter is all Amish.

Edit: DH reminds me that the produce auction was also selling eggs by the dozen.
Last edited by halfmoon on Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fog_tree
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by fog_tree »

I'm under impression. So instructive (not only for ERE readers) story, so gourgies life. All the best!!

Farm_or
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by Farm_or »

Thanks for sharing this first hand observation of the Amish. Looking forward to the next chapter, I find the Amish ways fascinating. Having been to Lancaster, I loved it. You are so lucky having grown up there.

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

Thank you, fog_tree! I'm so glad you're enjoying my story.
Farm_or wrote:Having been to Lancaster, I loved it. You are so lucky having grown up there.
I didn't actually grow up in Lancaster, but near enough to visit Amish country. My rural hometown was tiny and primarily dirt-poor; our house was one of about 20% with running water and flush toilets. Compared to most, we were very well off. The secretary at the elementary school I attended had a big box of clothes in her office. She would wash kids' hair before class to get rid of lice, then give them clothes in exchange for their rags.

halfmoon
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by halfmoon »

COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC (continued)

Our second close encounter with Amish people was on the train back to Seattle. The first leg of the trip ran from Pennsylvania to Chicago, and there was a group of Amish men and women on board headed to Chicago to pick up their mother and bring her back home. There were ten or more of them, so I'm not sure how they were all related. When I let slip* that DH was from Munich, they began excitedly talking with him in Schweizerdeutsch. DH couldn't understand much, but it didn't dim their enthusiasm.

(*DH hates when I tell people anything about him, but I try not to let it stop me. :))

After that, it was time to eat. They had brought a number of grocery bags with them, and I was waiting to see them whip out all sorts of lovingly prepared, hearty, home-cooked goodies. Instead, they unpacked the most amazing collection of junk food I've ever seen. Fritos, crackers, spray cans of Cheez Whiz, cookies, candy, bologna, Wonder bread, soda pop...it was as if they'd just knocked over a 7-11 and run off with everything they could grab. So much for preconceived notions.

After they ate, they settled down to sleep. One of the men removed his hat, pulled out a beautiful little embroidered pillow and stretched out in the train aisle with it under his head. I shuddered to think of his loving wife, girlfriend or mother seeing that pillow on the grimy floor.

When we switched trains in Chicago, the large Amish family was replaced with a young Amish couple and two children. They came on board toting a large cooler, and I was curious to see what it might contain. When mealtime rolled around, the cooler was opened and out came Wonder bread, mayonnaise, bologna and Cheez Whiz! The parents and children looked perfectly healthy, so I guess we should all stop worrying about what we eat. :?

The family got off the train at Glacier Park, cooler and all. For the entire trip, the mother and father took turns reading books with the kids, walking them around the train and talking with them. When one parent got tired, the other took over. The children were perfectly behaved -- unlike the two unsupervised brats who spent the trip kicking the backs of our seats.

Farm_or
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Re: Halfmoon's journal

Post by Farm_or »

When you run a farm on manual labor, you can burn off some of those extra calories without suffering the effects (for awhile). The soda pop worries me the most. Do the Amish visit dentist?

And for the kickers. Oy! No wonder the rest of the football team bullies those guys.

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