Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

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Dragline
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Dragline »

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I agree that the mental aspect of knowing you can go without food for extended periods of time is really powerful. You do become conscious that the feeling of being hungry and actually urgently requiring food are two different things, but that your limbic brain has been playing tricks on you to make you eat. I think prior to the 20th Century this was common knowledge -- and still is for much of the world -- but has been lost in consumerism and bad or unnecessary medical advice.

i also experienced a "period of unexplained illness" the first time I did it, although for me if was unexplained feverish symptoms that only lasted a few hours one day. This was also experienced by sailors who found themselves without food for several days sometimes.

I have heard explanations for this concerning the release of viral or other agents that are trapped within your fat, but I'm not actually sure what the true medical explanation is. A variety of symptoms are often reported from mucus to fevers to rashes.

Next time, also try some leeches. :lol:

Yes, I'm kidding.

DSKla
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by DSKla »

Yeah, the symtpons seem to range in type and severity depending on the individual. I don't claim to understand the mechanism, though a lot of possibilities come to mind. One is the theory that your body is purging some waste products or deep imbalance. Another could be that, transitioning to ketogenesis as an energy source causes some form of stress. Or that the state of catabolism temporarily weakens your immune system because it is chewing up the weak links in terms of proteins, killing of weaker cells, and the supercompensation upon eating could explain the purported immune benefits. There's the one you mentioned, or maybe it's just allergy season.

At the end of the day, I'm not concerned too deply about the exact "why," as much as what I can improve or learn from the experience. Since I don't tend to get sick, immune benefits would go unnoticed, and I would not use a prolonged fast for weight loss (even if I needed that, which I don't). I do believe that cyclically allowing yourself to dip into a catabolic state to get rid of some of the weaker cells that have managed to survive on the modern diabetes-inducing diet must be helpful. If nothing else, it allows you to devote resources to other systems than the digestive.

But for me, the biggest gain is the personal experience that rewires the way I think about hunger. I would never have thought I could go nearly five days without feeling hungry. I wasn't performing hard labor or anything, so maybe it would have kicked in if I'd exerted myself, but it clearly takes longer before there's any risk of malnutrition.

Thinking of food as a source of pleasure really is a bit hedonistic, and it causes a lot of issues beyond just health. You have to take time away from other things to acquire it, cook it, eat it. You have to pay for it (although some of you folks would only be saving $2/day). It can only make me more adaptable if I treat it more as a medicine to address damage to my musculoskeletal system, malnutrition, etc., and skip the thoughtless raiding of free snacks that people leave out.

The one obvious trade-off is that lots of cultures and people gather around food and use it as a vehicle for socialization. I'm from the deep south, and I know a lot of people who would be offended if they offered me a hot plate of homecookin' and I declined for any reason other than medical emergency, and even then they would try to fix me a to-go plate for the ambulance. I think my strategy will be one of respecting the cycle: periods of fullness, periods of emptiness. Eating when it makes sense (even just socially), not stuffing, and fasting when it's convenient, following a period of good restorative eating. I'll aim to avoid using food as reward, and avoid using a fast as punishment.

Interesting stuff.

Dragline
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Dragline »

You might be interested in this earlier discussion of autophagy, which is essentially your body eating the random crappy proteins and other things when you are fasting:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3804&hilit=autophagy&start=25

DSKla
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by DSKla »

Thanks, very helpful.

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Ego
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego »

Ray Cronise and Dr. Rhonda Patrick on fasting, cold thermogenesis and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNzZod_d18A

FWIW, Dr. Patrick has a lot of interesting nutrition stuff on her site

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/

Chad
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Chad »

Ego wrote:Ray Cronise and Dr. Rhonda Patrick on fasting, cold thermogenesis and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNzZod_d18A

FWIW, Dr. Patrick has a lot of interesting nutrition stuff on her site

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/
Dr. Patrick's podcast and site are one of the better ones.

enigmaT120
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by enigmaT120 »

Fasting is easy for me today. Just had to take a kitty to the vet for his last trip. No appetite. I'll bike 9 miles of hills tomorrow morning before eating lunch/breakfast. Not long enough for most of fasting's benefits though. I say that because I am not really packing around any excess fat I'm trying to get rid of. But it won't hurt.

tylerrr
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by tylerrr »

Chad wrote:Interesting new study on a benefit of fasting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... finds.html

Some of the highlights:
During each cycle of fasting, this depletion of white blood cells induces changes that trigger stem cell-based regeneration of new immune system cells.

In trials humans were asked to regularly fast for between two and four days over a six-month period.

Scientists found that prolonged fasting also reduced the enzyme PKA, which is linked to ageing and a hormone which increases cancer risk and tumour growth.
Fasting for 72 hours also protected cancer patients against the toxic impact of chemotherapy.

"While chemotherapy saves lives, it causes significant collateral damage to the immune system. The results of this study suggest that fasting may mitigate some of the harmful effects of chemotherapy," said co-author Tanya Dorff, assistant professor of clinical medicine at the USC Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center and Hospital.

Good stuff.....Yeah, I've fasted a few times over the years. Only water for 1-2 days. After the hunger pains, I slept incredibly well and felt "high" during the water fast.

I'm trying to fast once per week now , 24 hours of just water.

I can't imagine only water for 4-5 days like some people here are saying. It seems brutal.

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny »

Another study by Dr. Longo at USC shows the fasting-mimicking diet might reduce MS and Autoimmune symptoms.

They are supposed to be releasing the details of the fasting-mimicking diet this month. I'll post if they do.


Here's an older video that's an interview with Longo with some details on the diet ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23tcu7q0DBU

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Ego
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego »

Overnight Intermittent Fasting and Breast Cancer

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 122348.htm

In patients with breast cancer, a short overnight fast of less than 13 hours was associated with a statistically significant, 36 percent higher risk of breast cancer recurrence and a non-significant, 21 percent higher probability of death from the disease compared to patients who fasted 13 or more hours per night, report University of California, San Diego School of Medicine researchers

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny »

I just counted, and I have links to 42 different studies on fasting. The common recommendations are (1) fasting daily for 15-18 hours (the study Ego linked to using 13 hours was the shortest time frame I've seen recommended), and (2) fasting either 2 days/week or 3-5 days/month using a strict fast. Longo's fasting-mimicking diet seems to work in place of a strict fast, but they haven't released the details of the diet yet. The only info I've seen is listed earlier in the thread.

I have to start weekly blood tests in July for 8 weeks. I'm thinking of trying some version of IF while I'm getting the tests so I can see what effect it has on my bloodwork. Granted, I'm not exactly a pristine specimen from which to judge, but it should give some sense of what is affected by IF.

enigmaT120
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by enigmaT120 »

What are they testing for?

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny »

The blood tests are to make sure a new treatment I'm starting isn't doing more harm than good. (they said odds are 50/50 :roll: )

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny »

New podcast/video on IF on Rhonda Patrick's site. It focuses on breast cancer at first, but discusses more generally later on. The guest mentioned that starting the fast earlier in the evening produced better results. They also discuss how it relates to circadian rhythms. https://youtu.be/8qlrB84xp5g

Dr. Satchin Panda was on last week discussing his thoughts on IF and circadian rhythms ... https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU

RP's take is that the clock starts as soon as you have a non-water item, so morning coffee starts the clock even if it's black. :(

-------------
I've started a strict regimen of morning exercise, a smoothie afterward at noon, and a meal before 5pm. My weekly bloodtests started last week so I'll report the results.

BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE »

what clock starts after ingesting non-water items?

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny »

Time-restricted feeding suggests that a person should fast at least 13 hours a day to gain any benefit. That means eating should be restricted to a certain window every day. The 'clock' is the eating window. It doesn't commence with the first food but with the first non-water item ingested.

I hadn't heard such a strict definition before. Several people here who do IF or the warrior diet have mentioned that they ingest coffee during the day. According to Patrick and Panda, that would negate or reduce the effects of both diets.

BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE »

brute just listened to the episode.

first he thought that what she was saying ("start the fast early in the evening, around 7pm") contradicted many popular IF protocols like the Warrior Diet and Leangains. but then again, she says she wakes up at 7am, somewhat of an early bird (most humans' circadian clock would wake them up 8-10am). but if she was up at 7am, she probably goes to bed around 11pm. if relation to the circadian clock is important, it could be said humans should not eat 4 hours before going to bed. so brute can eat until much later.

another interesting point: is the optimal eating time related to the actual circadian rhythm, or to when humans wake up? the majority of humans wake up using alarm clocks, before their optimal circadian waking time. if waking up 3h before natural waking point, should a human eat 3h earlier, too? or is this related to the circadian clock itself, which is not changed by the alarm clock.

this could explain the misalignment with popular IF protocols: most humans' circadian clock would wake them between 8-10am, and therefore, their optimal eating time would be 1-3h after what she's saying, in effect 7-10pm.

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Ego
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego »

Dr. Satchin Panda from Salk explaining how each of our organs has it's own biological clock and metabolism becomes inefficient when these clocks get out of sync which then causes metabolites to build up and in turn cause illness.

https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU?t=28m3s

The light/dark cycle regulates the circadian clock in our brain but food intake regulates the clocks in most of the other organs. He makes some interesting points on the importance of food timing and the syncing of these clocks.

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Ego
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego »

It is a long video so I am watching it in bits. Here he talks about a new study showing why it is better to eat early in the day rather than late in the day. Metabolically we are more insulin resistant in the evening (it takes more insulin to do the same work)....

https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU?t=55m17s

BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE »

Ego wrote:It is a long video so I am watching it in bits. Here he talks about a new study showing why it is better to eat early in the day rather than late in the day. Metabolically we are more insulin resistant in the evening (it takes more insulin to do the same work)....

https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU?t=55m17s
interesting. brute has read that it's good to eat later for the exact same reason - in the morning, the cells are so insulin sensitive that they will completely overreact and cause a huge crash in blood glucose, leading humans to be hungry again despite just having eaten breakfast. cortisol is also high in the morning, helping this crash happen.

brute personally is never hungry in the morning and feels much better eating late afternoons or evenings.

edit: isn't this the exact same video posted by jennypenny 2 months ago?

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