ERE and Pets

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

I see what you mean.....

Those who anthropomorphize their pets are compensating for something. Not everyone who has a pet talks to it like it is the reincarnation of grandma.

Everywhere we look we see encouragements to get pets. Animal lovers claim amazing benefits to owning a pet, many of which I am sure are true. It is very rare to hear a dissenting voice. People get really upset when one is raised so most media outlets prefer not to publish about it because it only upsets their readers/watchers.

I guess I've been posting them here as a way to question why it is that we've come to regard pets in the way we do. No offense intended.

jacob
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by jacob »

Hehe, some people have children for those reasons as well.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/ ... rocessing/

... which is why my dog is smarter than your honor student :-D

JeanPaul
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by JeanPaul »

I think the big mistake that is made with pets is making a short-term decision for a very long-term result. "Oh, the kids want a kitten - it's so cute and it will teach them some responsibility." But then the kids go away to college, the kitten grows up, and you're stuck with an ornery old cat for 10 years.

I mean, that happened to me, but fortunately my parents love my two cats. But it can be much worse for a dog, because you have to walk them and spend lots of time with them - the cats just roam around the neighhborhood making trouble.

As for cost, I think it can be minimal - you're not required to get the pet massages (real thing!) and expensive death-postponing treatment that some owners get.

MSfreeinHou
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by MSfreeinHou »

One of the biggest reasons I want to retire is so that I can have a dog without guilt that I have to leave the poor thing home alone all day. It's such a personal choice, like having children. They are expensive but they provide so much joy if you do want them.

Open Space
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Open Space »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:Well, after a very rocky start to the weekend, I think we've smoothed things over, insofar as we're no longer fighting or talking about breaking up. (For the record, this was our first such major fight since we became official in December 2012.) On the other hand, she has not budged an inch in terms of her desire for a JRT puppy, she still seems to be avoiding any hint of compromise or even talking about the problem (which is what I find childish), and the only real decision we reached is that we won't be moving in together any time soon.
Not sure where you are now in this relationship at this point, but in my experience pets can be as serious an issue as children for a couple. Debates over pets are the ONLY serious disagreements my husband and I have had in almost 20 years - and that was over how many to have. (he won - we only have 2). This is an especially big issue for people without children. A friend once told me that after having a child you will never love your pets quite the same way and it's true. Children give you perspective. The responsibility of caring for a pet is trivial compared to a child, and that shapes your feelings as well.

That said, I'm a cat person (and thankfully DH also likes cats). They are a ongoing source of joy and entertainment. They provide a constant reminder to enjoy the present moment and not take things too seriously. They also become part of the family in their own way. If one person feels this way, and the other thinks pets are a nuisance, you need to have some serious discussions. Anyway, don't take it lightly.

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

Open Space wrote:This is an especially big issue for people without children. A friend once told me that after having a child you will never love your pets quite the same way and it's true. Children give you perspective. The responsibility of caring for a pet is trivial compared to a child, and that shapes your feelings as well.
I don't doubt that children add perspective to life. I wonder how much pet ownership skews perspective.

Why people care more about pets than humans. http://www.wired.com/2015/04/people-care-pets-humans/

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

Evidence is mounting

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cat-parasit ... zophrenia/

"Cat ownership in childhood has now been reported in three studies to be significantly more common in families in which the child is later diagnosed with schizophrenia or another serious mental illness," the authors reported in a press release.

In a second recent study, A.L. Sutterland from the Department of Psychiatry at the Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam and colleagues analyzed the findings of 50 published studies to confirm that T. gondii infection is associated with mental disorders.

Results showed that an individual infected with T. gondii was almost twice as likely to develop schizophrenia. They also found an association with addiction and obsessive-compulsive disorder, but say that the findings should be approached with caution.


T. gondii is also linked to Parkinson's
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20350582

and Alzheimers
http://journals.lww.com/alzheimerjourna ... mer.1.aspx

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jennypenny
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by jennypenny »

Maybe it's just that people with mental disorders are more likely to like cats. ;)

Dragline
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Dragline »

So the reason my brother is crazy is that my sister owned cats.

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

Dragline wrote:So the reason my brother is crazy is that my sister owned cats.
My mom died of cancer that metastasized from lung cancer. Did she - a lifelong fitness nut - get cancer because my dad smoked in the house? Who can say?

My favorite podcast did an episode on the mechanics of how t-gondii infection causes mice that are otherwise repelled by the smell of cat urine - for obvious evolutionary reasons - to be attracted to it. The parasite takes control of portions of the mouse's (and evidence is suggesting, our human) brain.

http://www.microbeworld.org/podcasts/th ... -and-mouse

jacob
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by jacob »

I got it. The parasite attracts infected humans to cats, just like mice.

Likely the cats are getting tired of all these humans constantly crowding them while being too large to eat.

Would also explain a lot of cat behavior.

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:I got it. The parasite attracts infected humans to cats, just like mice.
Believe it or not, truth is stranger than fiction.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... zy/308873/

After I return from Prague, Flegr informs me that he’s just had a paper accepted for publication that, he claims, “proves fatal feline attraction in humans.” By that he means that infected men like the smell of cat pee—or at least they rank its scent much more favorably than uninfected men do. Displaying the characteristic sex differences that define many Toxo traits, infected women have the reverse response, ranking the scent even more offensive than do women free of the parasite. The sniff test was done blind and also included urine collected from a dog, horse, hyena, and tiger. Infection did not affect how subjects rated these other samples.

“Is it possible cat urine may be an aphrodisiac for infected men?,” I ask. “Yes. It’s possible. Why not?” says Flegr.


Take a whiff yourself....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22087345

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jennypenny
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by jennypenny »

Wait, I was just making a joke. I thought the point was that cats can expose people to t-gondii, which makes them more susceptible to schizophrenia (like how H.pylori makes people more susceptible to ulcers).

Are you saying that (possibly) once people are infected, they're more attracted to cats? That's so ... creepy.

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

jennypenny wrote:Wait, I was just making a joke. I thought the point was that cats can expose people to t-gondii, which makes them more susceptible to schizophrenia (like how H.pylori makes people more susceptible to ulcers).

Are you saying that (possibly) once people are infected, they're more attracted to cats? That's so ... creepy.
Yep. It doesn't get much creepier than that. In that same article Robert Sapolsky says it falls into the "Get a load of this, can you believe what nature has come up with?" category.

From a study on how it takes over the neurotransmitters.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 90165.html
It shows that the parasite is using dendritic cells as a sort of Trojan horse to transport itself from the human gut to the brain,” Dr Barragan said.

“We’ve not looked at behaviour changes in people infected with toxoplasma, as that’s been dealt with by previous studies. Instead, we’ve shown for the first time how the parasite behaves in the body of its host, by which I mean how it enters the brain and manipulates the host by taking over the brain’s neurotransmitters,” he said.
Reminds me of another brain parasite, a fungus called Cordyceps. Maybe taxo is a human version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8

altoid
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by altoid »

We are going through the same dilemma now , since a feral cat from the neighborhood gave birth to four kittens last Saturday right above my attic hatch. We lost our 17 year old cat last winter, and don't want to have another pet since extended travelling in my post ERE agenda.

However, these kittens are so cute, especially the 4th one, very animated, probably the best looking cat I have ever seen, and I felt I had a connection with her the moment I saw her.. I know all this sounds irrational, but I somehow find myself unable to let them go. In the meantime, I don't want myself to turn into the cat lady.. That nice lady I ran into at Walmart Pet aisle, has 15 cats !

Can someone help me out? How should I work my brain to let them go?

SamTheRetiredMan
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by SamTheRetiredMan »

Like you I grew up with animals but didn't have any of my own when I was working because I found it a waste of money and time. Only got a dog when I had kids because by that point I was earning more and I think its important for children to grow up with responsibility that comes from pets. I'm telling you this because I really understand and agree with your point of view. That said if lizards (I don't get it either) or dogs are priorities to your girlfriend and she's a priority to you, then she's getting both when you move in. The costs of pets won't make a drastic impact on your retirement plans and if you love this person having them in your life and happy is more important.

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jennypenny
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by jennypenny »

T. gondii may also contribute to aggression disorder in humans. http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article ... n0313.aspx

"These results are supported by findings from animal studies that showed a relationship between T. gondii infection and elevated aggression-related behaviors and a recent study of 1,000 psychiatrically healthy subjects that documented elevated trait aggression and impulsivity as a function of T. gondii seropositivity."

Freedom_2018
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Freedom_2018 »

You say you love her. Perhaps bigger question is how well do you know her?

- from a once married man

thrifty++
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by thrifty++ »

I absolutely adore dogs so much. Its amazing how unconditionally they love humans they live with and that is priceless. They are also fun and hilarious. I think they are worth at least every penny and more. I grew up with one as a child and have always wanted one as an adult. However I am too transient going overseas regularly and not necessarily fixed in one country. Also I live in a city centre apartment and work all the time. But one day once things are more stable and I have a yard for a dog I would not regret any money spent.
I guess one option if you don't want long term responsibility is to sign up with animal shelters to look after animals needing temporary housing. Sometimes they might contribute to food costs. Or train blind dogs could be another thing to do. Still not enough capacity for such things in my life atm.

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Ego
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Re: ERE and Pets

Post by Ego »

thrifty++ wrote:Its amazing how unconditionally they love humans they live with and that is priceless.
I think this is probably the biggest problem I see with them. It is becoming increasing acceptable to dress up pets. Walk them in strollers. Talk to them like babies. Treat them like children. Attribute human characteristics to them that just aren't there. It wouldn't really matter all that much if not for the fact that people are increasingly using them as surrogates for real human contact. But I've said that before. There is another troubling problem.

The opposite of anthropomorphism is dehumanization, where people think of humans from another group as lower life forms. As animals. Seeing a human being as an animal requires a cognitive leap that doesn't happen naturally except in psychopaths. For most of us it takes no effort at all to empathize with other humans. It just happens. We can't help but to feel their pain.

On the other hand, it takes a great deal of training to break down this natural reaction in non-psychopaths. It takes training to get people to see a dog as more deserving of respect than another human being.


Image

Think about the arc of Bernays style social control. How might pets fit into that arc. Socially atomized. Commoditized love provided by bought, controllable companions.

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