Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Where are you and where are you going?
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MsFindingMoney
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Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

Hello!

I am a 28-year-old female from Singapore. I graduated last year in 2014 with a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science and I have been working as a Software Engineer since June 2014.

Background story:

I grew up in a low-income, later middle-income, family. Basically, I have a super mom that managed to bring us out of bankruptcy (that my biological father put us through). My mother taught us the basics, never to have any debts, always save up, earn what you want, etc. I started working at 13 (no it was not child labour, it was actually quite common back in the days). So I grew up knowing how to put aside money though I was not shy about spending everything on the latest gadget.

My journey started in 2015 when I decided I want to marry my then-girlfriend-now-fiance. Being a lesbian in Singapore added some extra obstacles that we have to face as a couple and in order to counter those, I made a decision to either earn enough to move out of the country or earn enough to start a family in Singapore.

Early retirement was not on the table initially. But somehow I find it the way to go after chancing upon MMM and ERE. So this is what I am aiming for now. :)

Financial status:

I work as a Software Engineer. Sadly Singapore does not pay us as much as compared to other countries. I am earning around SGD 2500 nett and I give my mother a huge portion (SGD 800) of that. I occasionally do some free lance / sales which brings in some extra cash.

As I mentioned previously, I spent most of my money during college so I effectively only have 9 months of savings (which is also my net worth), which equates to roughly 14k (12k of which are new funds).

Rough distribution of nett worth:
Savings at 0.05%: SGD 2,000 (intend to close / keep a minimum amount soon!)
Savings at 3%: SGD 7,000
Shares: SGD 5,000

Short-term goals:
  • Find ways to earn extra income (preferably passive)
  • Eat healthier (haven't been eating healthy since the festive season)
  • Fix / try to fix health problems (Joint pains, retina problems, gastric problems, etc)
  • Read more pro-actively on financial-related topics
  • Save at least 50% of salary monthly (preferably 60%) --- I wish this could be higher, but 30% goes to my mother. @.@
  • Find a new job that is nearer to where I stay or a job that is overseas (2 extremes, I know)

Long-term goals:
  • Build a family
  • Retire by 45
  • Being free to complete bucket list
  • Have at least 1 kid


Nice to meet everyone!!
Last edited by MsFindingMoney on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

cimorene12 wrote:Hi! Welcome!

Do you have a preference on raising your children inside or outside of Singapore? Will your child face any kind of stigma if he/she has two moms in Singapore? It sounds like that situation would be rare, but I'm sure that it's something that you've thought about. If you left Singapore, where would you go?
Thank you for the welcome cimorene. It is nice to meet you.

I would prefer to raise them outside of Singapore. However my reason is not because of the stigma what of having 2 moms but rather the legal matters that will surround my future child (there is a support group building up). In Singapore a child born without a legal father is considered a bastard. I.e. unable to get any subsidy of any sort (No maternal leave of any kind as well though that is the least of my concerns). And the other mother who is not the birth mother have no rights to the child. The other mother cannot make any decisions for the child if any unfortunate incident were to happen to the child or the birth mother. There are a whole list that goes on but I guess you get the idea. It is really sad.

And if I were to raise my children overseas I would prefer to raise them where same gendered marriage is legal. This includes some states in the US, Canada and a few other countries.
cimorene12 wrote:I would test the assumption that you can only earn $2,500 SGD net. Check out angel.co/jobs with a location of Singapore and a role of Software Engineer. You might find different opportunities. I'm certainly seeing ones that would earn you more than $2,500 SGD per month, but I don't know your skill set.

I look forward to hearing more from you.
I am actually earning above the average for my line of work in Singapore. My peers are earning around 2.2k. Also, in Singapore we are forced to set aside money every month (around 20%) of the gross salary for a retirement account (which most of us will eventually have problems maintaining in the future. It's a really long story). I am actually earning around 40k gross per annum while my peers are earning 30k per annum.

And from what I know for the same position I can be paid up to 8 to 10k a month (gross) in other countries. Pretty big difference even after tax.

P.S. I can't view the webpage properly on my mobile. I will take a look at it when I am home. :)
Last edited by MsFindingMoney on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sclass
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by Sclass »

Hi,
Welcome. As an old and graying hardware and firmware developer I envy a young developer who wants to make some spare cash in this rich environment. Make something that people need and sell it on the side. Software and phone apps are a great place to get into this with little upfront capital.


As a young student I met another student from my university at a swap meet selling T shirts. She was a business major and she wanted to learn business she told me. She sold these cheap T shirts with graffiti style art printed on them. I think she made them herself in her home.

I took that idea years later in my twenties and found a string of niche (important but not widely known) industrial problems that I could solve using (what we called then) smart electronics. I made stuff in my apartment and just started selling it to people. It didn't matter that my employer disapproved, I didn't tell them. I doubled my income pretty much overnight. I'm talking obscure problems like how to set the water temperature in a particular kind of plating factory where a guy sits there with a thermometer and a knob.

So for a young programmer, the sky is the limit. Start looking around for problems you can solve and people who have money. I liked industrial tools because there was less competition than consumer electronics and I didn't have to make things as pretty. Industrial operations generally have money too.

You have skill. Time to get creative. Make and sell.

Good luck with the social issues. A collegue of mine was from Singapore. He said it was a police state. Funny, some people say that and others say it is the most wonderful utopia. I hope you can figure out a way to make it work for you. Sometimes you just have to turn the whole thing upside down and look at it from a different angle to beat it.

Mom takes a lot of your money. I don't know your personal situation but you may need to take a hard look at that.

Good luck and go write a phone app! My prior trade was pretty much building industrial test tools that had far less processing power than the modern smart phones. The kids who build products around this technology have half of the job (hardware) already done for them. It's just a matter of finding somebody's problem and making a tool to solve it.

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

Sclass wrote:Hi,
Welcome. As an old and graying hardware and firmware developer I envy a young developer who wants to make some spare cash in this rich environment. Make something that people need and sell it on the side. Software and phone apps are a great place to get into this with little upfront capital.

You have skill. Time to get creative. Make and sell.
Hello Sclass! I am indeed working on mobile apps on the side. I am actually a game developer. I am working with a couple of my friends to produce some indie games but I am also looking to create apps on my own. I am hoping to churn out a small app soon. Have some ideas but they are not solid yet. I am also looking at earning from other sources like sales. I was actually a sales person since young (I started my first sales job at 13).


Sclass wrote:Good luck with the social issues. A collegue of mine was from Singapore. He said it was a police state. Funny, some people say that and others say it is the most wonderful utopia. I hope you can figure out a way to make it work for you. Sometimes you just have to turn the whole thing upside down and look at it from a different angle to beat it.
Many dubs it a "fine" country. I.e. fine as in nice and fine as in punishing people by making them pay.
Sclass wrote: Mom takes a lot of your money. I don't know your personal situation but you may need to take a hard look at that.
I know. It is an asian culture thing. My older sibling pays the same amount and is earning slightly lesser than me so I don't have a lot of excuse to lower down the amount. Furthermore I can't really complain much either since I am staying in her house and she pays for the bills. So the amount I give is a combination of all the bills. I give it willingly too. Though I do feel the pinch every month end.

@cimorene12
Yes it is just an asian thingy. But I do give my mother a very very high percentage as compared to many of my peers. The norm for them is around 100 to 500 max (for people with my pay range).
cimorene12 wrote: It sounds like you'll be moving out. Between immigrating to the US and Canada, I'd choose Canada. US Immigration is a nightmare to go through, and Canada has what you need. They've got the great new system of Express Entry, too. For young people like you who are college-educated and speak English, the ranking system will be in your favor.


Wow. I did not know that. Was busy looking for jobs all over the place. Thank you! I will look into it!! :D

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Sclass
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by Sclass »

Good that you're working on a side hustle. I'm shocked that these kids nearby my home are making $1,000,000 a month in in app purchases for some knights and dragons phone game. The sky is the limit. I Used to have a client who ran an online gaming casino on an atol near Saipan. he sat down and created it himself in his apartment in the SF Bay Area. There is opportunity out there for the daring and creative.

I just bought a Geiger counter off these guys in Japan who figured out how to use a simple diode based detector on the microphone input of an iPhone to make a Geiger counter out of a phone. They sell globally. You couldn't do this stuff when I started out. Now you don't have to be an embedded systems genius to make a cash register out of an iPad. I keep seeing those things...mostly SW added to a Bluetooth connected cash drawer. All I'm saying is it is an exciting time to be a SW engineer.

It's out there. When I worked at HP I basically doubled my salary overnight by running an online automotive diagnostics tools business out of my cubicle. My manager never even suspected it. I invested 100% of the after tax profits. After my success (and eventual layoff) I went out to start two more businesses.

You mentioned your mom, well, if you live off her and you pay the bills, good for you. You're a responsible kid. Find a way to get more money.

Moving to North America may be a wise move. companies are searching hard for people who can write a line of code.

I noticed you wanted to make some passive returns. I think you need more capital.

Good luck.

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

Sclass wrote:You mentioned your mom, well, if you live off her and you pay the bills, good for you. You're a responsible kid. Find a way to get more money.
I will! XD It is not going to be easy but I will do my best!! (details below)
Sclass wrote:Moving to North America may be a wise move. companies are searching hard for people who can write a line of code.
Sadly the resumes that I have sent out have not been fruitful. I will continue to find though. Hopefully I can get a job soon! :D
Sclass wrote:I noticed you wanted to make some passive returns. I think you need more capital.
Yup! Working on it as I type! I need a LOT more capital. @.@
Sclass wrote:Good luck.
Thank you for your wishes and advices. Will continue to work hard! :D

Earnings:

As I mentioned before, I have been looking into doing side sales. The latest shipment just arrived and I managed to earn $15 after deducting the cost of the items and I still have around 50% of the stock left. The amount is little but it is a start. And I have confidence I would be able to able to sell everything by end of this month. :)

I have been looking for other means of income but I am still researching. I have also been working on the game with my current team mate as well as trying to work on some mini games on the side on my own. I hope the mini games will generate some passive income for me in the future. It won't be easy but I can hope. :)

This is technically not about earnings, but i have been trying to sell my underused possessions. Tech stuff like rams sells pretty fast but things like books are really hard to sell. I am contemplating donating them away. @.@

Expenses:

I have always been the type that spend-little-daily but spend-ALOT-suddenly. I have to admit gadgets and tech are my weaknesses. I have been curbing my sudden expenditures and haven't been getting any tech stuff and I hope this will continue.

I am also trying to cook more often in order to reduce the amount I need to dine out, which will reduce my dining expenditure to mainly dates and occasional events.

Health:

Unfortunately I have been plagued with many small health issues since young and being overweight (obese, even though I am fortunate enough to not look obese) does not help. I am hoping to lose weight slowly to reduce my health issues one by one.

Self-Improvement:

Have been reading consistently since the start of 2015 and will continue to do so. In the middle of Your Money of Your Life at the moment. :D

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

It's been awhile. Long story short, I got lost in 2016 and I am trying to pick up where I have left off now. Lucky for me I have been very diligent in 2015 and managed to have a small stash in investment.

Summary:
I am working for a different company now. Managed to get a 25% pay rise (yay for me!) but also more stress and lesser personal time. I am fortunate to enjoy my job so that's another yay for me.

Financial status:
  • Local Stocks: SGD 25,000
  • International Stocks: SGD 6,000
  • Emergency Funds: SGD 6,000
  • Housing Fund: SGD 5,000
Short-term Goals:
  • Allocate 60% of take-home pay¹ to investment every month
  • Cook more, eat home more, save more
  • Sell unnecessary possessions
Long-term Goals:
  • My own HDB
  • Retire by 45
¹ Take-home pay = Salary - CPF (20% of Salary) - Mother's allowance (SGD 800)

George the original one
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by George the original one »

Sometimes aimless wandering works well. It's a great way to explore Venice! However, when one sobers up after a nap in a distant corner of the islands, it's useful to have a map & compass to return to the train station.

lightfruit55
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by lightfruit55 »

Hello! Surprised to discover another Singapore ERE journal... glad you found your way back.

Regarding your investments (local/international stocks), are you mainly indexing or do you select stocks?

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

@George the original one: I thank ERE, MMM and various other resources for handing me the map and compass! XD

@lightfruit55: I have a few selected stocks but most of my investments are in ES3 and IWDA. :) And hello fellow Singaporean. Let's Jia you together! Chiong ah!

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

2018!

Summary:
Working for the same company, hoping to get a pay rise soon. Got engaged late last year, need to set aside some money for the wedding, but intend to keep it simple.

Financial status:
  • Local Stocks: SGD 29,000
  • International Stocks: SGD 25,000
  • Housing Fund: SGD 12,000
Short-term Goals:
  • Allocate 80% of take-home pay¹ to investment every month
  • Come up with systematic solution to streamline cooking
Long-term Goals:
  • My own HDB
  • Retire by 40
¹ Take-home pay = Salary - CPF (20% of Salary) - Mother's allowance

MsFindingMoney
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by MsFindingMoney »

Oh my. It's been 3 years since my last update. So many things happened! Goodness.

2019
Year of spending.
  • Starting networth: 60k
  • We bought a car for 64k. Mainly for the wife's pet grooming business.
    • No, this is not a typo. Singapore cars are ridiculously expensive.
    • It's a Honda Fit 1.3A
    • We did a lot of calculations before deciding to get the car.
    • Wife's a house call pet groomer and moves around a lot.
    • She took public transport for 4 years before we got the car (lugging around all her grooming equipments).
    • We tested the finances (and logistics) by renting a car at 1.7k - 2k a month.
    • We finally decided to get us a car.
    • Our downpayment was around 20k
    • Our installment is $616.52 at a flat rate interest rate of 2.28% (effective rate: 4.295%), for 7 years.
    • Yes, I felt the need to justify the purchase since this is a frugality forum.
  • Went to Bangkok to get things to prep for wedding/photoshoot.
  • Got married in Australia, Sydney.
    • around 350 AUD for the celebrant, 412 AUD for the actual day photography, super worth it!
  • Went Taiwan for wedding photoshoot.
    • it's a thing here in Singapore to have wedding photoshoot overseas
  • Quit workplace with toxic colleague.
    • this job failed to pay me for 6 months so It was a good choice to leave
  • Started selling Keto cookies online to earn some income.
    • I lost over 20kg from intermittent fasting + keto over the span of 2 years. yay for me.
    • I am still overweight but no longer obese!
  • Ending networth: 80k
2020
Year of weirdness. To be fair, I think this year is weird for everyone. Lol.
  • Starting networth: 100k
  • Due to covid, my wife moved in with my mother and I
    • for non-Asians, this is a huge deal. essentially covid helped speed up my mother's acceptance to my wife, albeit begrudgingly
  • Keto Cookie customer encouraged me to start a keto meal prep business. I did.
  • Signed up to join a place-and-train program created to help people move into the finance sector.
    • I passed and got into the course.
    • Finished the course and got attached to the company.
    • I don't get "paid", but I have a stipend.
  • Ending networth: 170k
2021
Year of hope.
  • Starting networth: 270k
  • Meal prep business did not take off, but I am still meal prepping weekly for a handful of people.
    • Hoping to be able to ramp it up next year after we move out from my mother's
  • Still in my place-and-train program, which will end early next year.
    • Will have to either find a new job or hopefully get converted to a full-timer.
  • Became a mother to a tiny tortoise.
  • Might become a mother to 2 young rabbits.
  • Been a mother for 2 elderly dogs (felt weird not including them).
  • Moving between 2 homes (the wife's parents and my mother's).
  • Will finally be able to purchase our own place next year. Waiting eagerly for that.
    • In Singapore singles can only purchase an apartment (known as HDB) after the age of 35
  • Paused all investments since May earlier this year to save up for the downpayment for our future place.
  • Current networth: 390k
Financial Status:
  • Stocks: 320k
  • Cash: 20k (1.8% interest, for downpayment)
  • Car: 47k (the car is worth more than this now, but I will keep it lower just in case)
Goals:
  • Save up another 20k in cash by April 2022 --- for housing
  • Invest 15k by April 2022
  • Coast FIRE > Barista FIRE
  • Learn woodworking
  • Master latte art
I've been doing a lot of thinking recently and instead of aiming for "just" Lean FIRE, I might want to aim for Coast FIRE + Barista FIRE instead. This actually makes a lot of sense since both the wife and I have things we want to do that earn us money (woodworking and coffee for me, anything related to pets for her).

We have already reached our Lean FIRE goal using the Coast FIRE calculations (retirement age of 50). So instead of trying to get to our full Lean FIRE number, I am thinking of switching to Barista FIRE to try get our Coast FIRE number into Standard FIRE number instead.

This sounds a little confusing but I think the concept is sane. I still have more I would need to discuss with the wife, but I think I would lean more towards this plan. Especially if I do not get converted to full-time next year. I mean since I need to find a job anyways, why not find a job that I'll enjoy + learn something new?

More have to be thought off. Would be great to hear other thought about this. Though I also highly doubt anyone would be reading a wall of text. LOL!

Also, very thankful for this forum's existence. I can see how far I've come.

Jia you everyone (for non-chinese, this means "do your best"/"keep it up", can also be translated to gambatte in Japanese).



TLDR:
I am doing great, thanks for stopping by.

Vaikeasti
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by Vaikeasti »

Nice to hear you're doing fine!

So you've reached your minimun FI number, congrats on that! If I understand correctly you're now joining the semiERE wagon? That's been a popular choice these days. I'm glad for you.

Are you still thinking about moving overseas? maybe not since you seem to be managing fine where you are?

HanaSolo
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by HanaSolo »

I love this. The ~annual updates illustrate very succinctly the benefits if you just stick to it. Good luck on the house hunt!

lightfruit55
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by lightfruit55 »

Congrats on the union and happy that you were able to make it work somehow in this country (such a shame that LGBTs are not afforded equal opportunities in this country).

Also, Great net worth increase! Is it from the Keto business or employment? If you continue on this trajectory for a few more years, you are more or less set!

We don’t get many Singaporeans around here and really glad to see you updating and on track all this while.

Am very curious about your Coast/Barista plan? Are you still in full time employment? If yes, how are you planning to transition towards coast/barista?

I’ve been feeling very burnt out with full time employment for some time but cannot seem to jump off into the coast/barista life… mostly due to me not having any vision for a coast/barista life. So it’s really me “running from full time work” rather than running towards something. It also doesn’t help that I don’t know if people “coasting” in real life. Not many alternative “coasting” lifestyles to draw on here in SG. Looking forward to hearing more about your coast/barista plans!

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Alice_AU
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Re: Ms. Finding Money's journey to financial independence.

Post by Alice_AU »

Congratulations, and thank you for sharing your story. Always inspiring to see other people’s progress. You seem to be having biggest gains around New Year’s Eve - end of year NW is X then start of next year NW is suddenly Y, I need to learn that trick! :D

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