The Journal of IwantLess

Where are you and where are you going?
Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

Hello all! I have been lurking this site for several years now. It has drastically changed my perspective on life and given me hope for a freedom that I have been desperately seeking. It is something I am very grateful for so thank you everyone for opening my eyes. I have been wanting to create a Journal for a while and figured now is as good of a time as any...

I am in my mid to late twenties and an INTJ. I work for one of the leading IT mega corps in my field of expertise. My interests include hiking, cooking, fitness, camping, learning, reading, and wasting too much time on the internet. These days I am often day dreaming of living in a tiny house and leaving the huge expensive city that I live in.

With that said, my current plan is to save up enough money in my taxable investment accounts to be able to live off a 2% withdraw rate. I should achieve this goal in 3-5 years depending on my sanity and drive to continue working. So the earliest I will be leaving the workforce will be at the ripe old age of 30. Godspeed.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Money History

Post by Pronoid »

A brief history of my money situation:

2008 - Graduated college with 18k of student loan debt. Started my first grown up job making a decent salary
2009 - Enjoyed being a single guy with a nice income and practiced extensive consumerism. Moved out of my 1 bedroom apartment to renting a 3 bedroom house, bought furniture for said house, a very high end motorcycle, lasik eye surgery, and lots of booze and eating out. ~35k of debt
2010 - Started getting serious about paying off debt and lessening my consumerist ways. Had 1-2 roommates at this time as well. Also started saving cash with no clue what to do with it. Student loans paid off but still had a loan on my motorcycle. 10K of Debt
2011 - Debt free. Maxed ROTH and 401k with some more cash savings. No more roommates. Started learning about investing. The end of this year is when I found ERE and knew what I had to do.
2012- Down sized my lifestyle in order to improve savings. Core monthly expenses dropped from ~$2500 to ~$1400
2013 - 75% savings rate. Downsized lifestyle even more and moved across the country to a very expensive city in order to pursue a major career opportunity.
Current - Savings rate should be >80% going forward


I have been fortunate to have received generous salary bumps every year ranging from 20-25% each time. This was due to me pursuing other opportunities when they appeared and studying my ass off to learn everything I could in my field. This has obviously been a tremendous help in speeding up the savings process.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Monthly Expenses

Post by Pronoid »

In the middle of 2013 I moved from my 1800 sq ft, 3 bedroom house to a studio apartment that has to be less than 180 sq ft. I did this mainly because I wasn't willing to spend the going rate of $2500 for rent in my new location. However, the secondary goal was to force me to get ride of a lot of my belongings and further downsize my footprint. I was lucky to find the place that I did, which also includes utilities. So here's a look at my core monthly expenses at the moment:

Rent (includes Utilities) - $975
Cell Phone and Internet - $50*
Groceries - $225
Gym - $60
Misc - $65

Total: $1350


*My cell phone and internet bill is usually $75 but I get to expense part of it for work depending on how much I use it for that purpose. The amount I usually end up paying is $40-$50

When I moved to my current location, I deliberately looked for an apartment within biking distance to work, a grocery store, and a gym since those are the most important locations I visit regularly. As a result, I was able to sell my vehicle and buy a bicycle. I also sold my motorcycle before making the move. This is why I don't pay for gas, insurance or car maintenance.

Lastly, going to the gym is a big part of my life. I get pretty into the whole calorie counting and nutritional macros stuff. I have been going to the gym consistently since college and will continue to do so. I actually just finished doing an experiment to cut this crazy $60 gym fee by installing a pull up bar and buying resistance bands. I ended up losing over 10 pounds and I'm sure a lot of strength. So I realized I was pushing things too far and will add this back in. This fitness stuff is also why my grocery bill is higher than a lot of others. I need protein and have cut it back as best as I could. It will actually probably go up since I need to gain my 10 pounds back.. ha! My gym membership gets unfrozen in a little over a week. I am very, very excited to go back.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

January was a normal month. I have automatic payments from each of my two checks per month going to Vanguard investments so I'm pretty much on cruise mode.

I did do some minor grocery shopping optimization, though. I have to walk about a mile to the grocery store and use a contraption that kind of resembles the Post Office guy's delivery cart to hang all my food bags on in order to carry them back home. It works quite nicely and I get random compliments on it from other grocery walkers pretty much every time I use it. However, I happened to search for some bulk food on amazon and started signing up for the subscribe and save option. So this is actually super nice because now I don't have to carry as much food on my grocery treks and it's delivered right to my door. Another bonus... If you have 5 or more items sent you on the same month you get 15% off. Sounds sweet right? Well I discovered that if you sign up for Amazon Moms (I just used my dog as my child) then you get 20% off instead. Booya! So obviously produce and perishables don't work for this. But I was able to add about 10 items that I normally buy weekly that ended up being cheaper in this manner. The down side is that I have a small ass apartment and need to figure out how to store 2 months of things like tomato sauce cans...

Winter continues to make my bike commutes exciting. I bought studded tires anticipating the winters being bad. They have worked pretty well, though. I do feel like a badass riding in "feels like -5" degree weather. I'm pleasantly surprised that I haven't had to buy a crazy thick winter jacket. I only wear a light REI jacket with a thin merino wool sweater underneath and I'm golden.

There was a Tumbleweed Tiny House workshop on sale here in NYC that I was super tempted to sign up for but I'm still a ways off from that point. Someday...

spoonman
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:15 am

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by spoonman »

I share your enthusiasm about not having to drive to the grocery store. We live within two blocks of our grocery store so most of the time we just take two grocery bags with us. When we buy water we use our little foldable cart. I just love being so close to the grocery store, it was one of the best tactical moves we've made.

ebast
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:42 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by ebast »

Neat idea with the Amazon delivery - do you find that's cheaper than buying bulk at decently priced local stores, or is it more of an optimization for when grocery stores are further away?

There was a thread a while back on Tumbleweed Tiny House workshops. Sounds like you made the right decision there - I caught one of the workshops once but there's a huge difference in terms of knowing what to ask and how much you get out of it between going when you're just curious and when you're about to start building...

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

Thanks for stopping by.

@spoonman - Yeah grocery walking is awesome. I made it all through the harsh winter, snow, rain, etc. Bring it on! I'm actually not looking forward to the heat and humidity, though. Also, grats on your journey. It seems you are really close to pulling the plug. I'm excited for you.

@ebast - The only thing that isn't cheaper that's local vs amazon is dried beans. I find myself buying mostly produce, meat, eggs, and milk (for yogurt making) from the grocery store. Things like tuna, mayo, oils, almonds, jerky, poptarts, and such I buy from amazon. Basically everything else but beans.


As far as an update, I'm still on course. Work is easy and pays well. But I would still love to not be forced to go. I think as the time goes on I will try to push being able to work from home 1-2 days a week. That would make things much more freeing.

I'm still saving a ton of my income. Most of it is on autopilot, which is nice. But at the same time I miss the times when I used to buy my investment shares. I guess I liked the control and feeling like I'm actually doing something with my money. Now I just stare at mint to make sure everything is in order. Not quite as exciting.

My main focus has been decluttering. I like reading the minimalist websites where people count their stuff. Most of the examples are crazy unrealistic for someone living on their own. They usually consist of clothes, laptop, and hygiene stuff. That's all well and good, but it assumes you are eating out every night and sleeping in a hotel or a friends couch. The only realistic example I've seen is from this site:

http://www.theminimalists.com/288/

I like the notion of only having what I need and use. I remember reading a thread on here about homesteading vs minimalism and that's a real struggle I deal with. Someday I would like to live off grid and grow my food while surviving off the land. But you can't really go crazy minimal living like that. I think I will have to save that goal for the future when I'm ready to buy a chunk of land and settle. For now, I'm chucking my useless goods.

I've been continuing to sell a bunch of books and electronics on amazon trade in. I've sold/given away several pieces of furniture. I'm also getting ready to donate a huge pile I've been building up. Things have been progressing nicely to say the least. I think in a month or two I will make my list of things i own. It should easily be under 1000 items counting everything someone living on their own would realistically use. Hopefully closer to 500. We'll see.

I have this constant internal nag also pushing me to optimize. I think that is what fuels my desire to get rid of my stuff. I believe that is a part of who I am as a person. That's probably why I do well at my job since I pay attention to details so I can make things better. Now the stupid trait is rubbing off at home. I've realized that the need to optimize doesn't always align with being frugal, which is also another thing I struggle with. For example, when I moved into my small apartment, there was no built in closet. So I bought these cheap portable ones to make due. They sucked bad. Like real bad. I don't own that many clothes, but the weight was just too much for them. So about a month ago I bought a real sturdy metal shelf from amazon. It was twice the cost of the crap closets but a million times better. Plus it allowed me to consolidate a bookshelf I had and the two crap closets into this one metal masterpiece. Basically, I find myself spending more to consolidate and optimize when I see an opportunity. Whether it's the right thing to do financially is another question. I do feel a sense of relief every time I get rid of something so I guess there's always that.

WorkingWageWealth
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by WorkingWageWealth »

Great journal. I look forward to hearing more from you. Hopefully you'll write regularly :-) I still struggle with this.

JamesR
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by JamesR »

2% seems somewhat excessive goal-wise since 3% is practically "never ever gonna go broke" heh. Most 2%ers on this forum seem to get there AFTER they've ERE'd.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

Well, I made a list of everything I own and I'm basically at ~400 things depending on how you count it. The number isn't important but I'm just realistically trying to get rid of things I don't need or use to keep my place clutter free and efficient. A super extreme goal is to be able to fit everything into a single backpack for ultimate freedom (the backpack I'm using for this purpose actually arrived today). Everyone that I tell of such a goal believes me to be increasingly crazy. I feel like the further along I get on my version of the ERE path the more of an outlier I become compared to my friends, family, and general population. The notion is really sinking in that I am considered strange and weird compared to most people. Saving the overwhelming majority of my income, reducing my possessions, not owning a vehicle, eating well, and consistently working out and being fit. Doing one of these things is enough to stand out. But doing all of them surely makes me feel like an extreme weirdo. I feel like I am destroying my current relationships and potentially limiting any future relationships by being myself. It's like my actions are so out there that no one can really relate, which pushes people away. However, I feel normal. Oh how relative being normal truly is.

Otherwise, the savings rate is still going strong. I have begun trying the manufactured spending stuff out for fun. I applied for a few credit cards and the serve account to get things started. Free travel never hurt anyone. I read blogs and forums of people going crazy about it, yet there is still a notion of secrecy it seems. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but it's rare for people to straight up spell out each individual step and how to do the whole thing in plain detail. I suppose they just don't want to ruin a good thing, which is understandable.


@JamesR - The goal is to really just get under 3%, which will make me feel more secure. My savings rate is high enough that it only takes about a year to get from 4% to 3%. Then one more to get to 2.5%. My tolerance for work will just have to determine how long I stick it out.

jacob
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Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by jacob »

... depending on how you count it.

So how do you count it?

I've been considering minimizing for a long time and I still do it despite now having a house (at least for the next 5+ years) to "let it out". From that I've basically concluded that counting is not the best method. Weight or volume are better means. For example, consider a socket set. Is that 37 items (each individual socket + a couple of ratchets)? Is it 1 item (the case it's in)? I think it's more pragmatic to count it as 5 pounds or a small brief case. Another example, our clubbells and kettlebells don't take up a lot of space, they're 6 items total (I got rid of some of the heavier ones), but they weigh a combined 186 pounds. No way I'm going to put those in a backpack. However, they can easily go in a car or a closet.

Ultimately, I can see a few goals wrt minimizing. Maybe these are just my goals:

1) Spending less brain energy on organizing/thinking about/cleaning stuff.
2) Being able to move easily in the sense of not being attached to a location because it's an extreme hassle to move (most people rate moving right up there with the death of a relative in terms of stress)
3) ???

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

@Jacob- Counting items seems to be the most inconsistent part of everyone's grand number. I've read on other blogs how people group things like a laptop and its power cable as 1. Or grouping all 8 plates as 1. Or the check out aisle method of saying everything is 1 item that would go over a scan in a check out aisle at a store. Personally, I tried to count everything that made a difference if I removed it in addition to the laptop plus power cable counting as one item method. For example, I have 2 cups in my kitchen for utensils. If I got rid of 3 forks, I'm still going to have the same 2 cups so I wouldn't really have made more room for myself.

It would be interesting to use your method of weight, though, since it would be indisputable. You wouldn't have to question someone's means of accuracy and just know right away. I am hoping I will soon have so few items that I won't have to worry about which method I use as it wouldn't really matter.

My goals are similar to yours in that getting rid of things removes clutter, increases mobility, increases efficiency, lessens cleaning, etc. I mostly hate the fact that I can look over at something and know I haven't touched it in 6+ months. I guess it just puts kind of a mental strain that is uplifted once I finally get rid of the unused thing. I like that freeing feeling that comes with it.


On another note, I just finished listening to your/Jacob's podcast that was recently posted. I've had to listen to it in chunks as 3 hours in one sitting is a bit much. I definitely enjoyed it and the various topics that were discussed. It was cool to put an actual voice to the book, blog posts, and forum posts that I've spent so much time reading throughout the years. It makes me want to go back and reread the ERE book and the controversial chapter 7 that kept being mentioned.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

Lately, I have been focusing on my kitchen and continuing to get rid of things I don’t use. Inspired also by Jacob’s post, http://earlyretirementextreme.com/the-m ... tchen.html, I now have 40 items in the kitchen, which is down from about 150 items since the beginning of the year. This includes everything from the broom to the pressure cooker to the trash can to every single individual utensil. The only things that I grouped are a container and its lid. Over half of the items are tupperware that I use to take food to work and bowls used to store/mix food at home. The interesting thing about the lunch containers is that I specifically bought glass ones with the idea of not getting toxins when it’s microwaved in addition to them not retaining the smell of the food. I’ve been noticing when washing them that there are small chips of glass missing from the edges, which is most likely due to me stacking them for storage once they are cleaned. Hopefully that doesn’t mean I’ve been consuming bits of glass in my quest to be a bit healthier. I would love to get metal containers instead but that would be challenging to microwave at work. I guess I’ll just have to make due and enjoy the extra glass fiber in my diet.

So with that said, my grand list of total stuff is down to about 300 items due to getting rid of some other things elsewhere. I think I’m at a point where I could fit everything I own into a minivan or SUV if I had to move. I’d like to get that down to a regular car, but I don’t think my futon would make the squeeze regardless. It’s feasible, though, since it comes apart and folds down decently small. The ultimate goal is of course fitting everything into a single backpack, but that can't happen until I can share someone else's kitchen/home items or do large stints of travel.

As I write this, I just got news of a grandparent that passed away. It basically confirms that none of the things I own mean anything. You certainly can’t take it with you when you go. So thank you ERE and minimalism for leading me on the path that matters to me.

mp4532
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Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:55 am

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by mp4532 »

I don't believe the point of owning things is to take them with you when you go but rather to enjoy them, people you love and life while you are alive and to really live life in your own way, doing what makes you happy before it's too late.

I'm sorry for your loss.

JL13
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Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by JL13 »

IwantLess wrote: I feel like the further along I get on my version of the ERE path the more of an outlier I become compared to my friends, family, and general population. The notion is really sinking in that I am considered strange and weird compared to most people.
I'm still surprised by this myself. The funny thing is I think I put on a front that I think is considered somewhat average but then I find out that people think that even the normal recommendations are extreme!

Example: Power company recommends setting thermostat at 68/78, mine is usually off. People think setting it any higher or lower than 72 is crazy!

Example 2: At home I'm basically a vegetarian, but I'll eat more along the lines of the USDA food pyramid at work to not draw attention to myself, and I still get a daily comment about how healthy I eat. Strange what some people consider healthy...

I feel like I'm the guy in Catch 22 - they're all trying to kill me!

JamesR
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Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by JamesR »

I just noticed you said you were getting salary bumps of 20% annually. That seems impressive, what industry? You said you were studying a lot, so were you being proactive about moving up the ladder into different positions? Any tips for others?

spoonman
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:15 am

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by spoonman »

I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Death is the most sobering thing there is.

My wife and I hope to get our possessions down to the point where they fit into two backpacks. I very much look forward to the sense of lightness and the ability to painlessly move from one location to another.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

"I had three pieces of limestone on my desk, but I was terrified to find that they required to be dusted daily, when the furniture of my mind was all undusted still, and threw them out the window in disgust." -Thoreau

@mp4532- I agree that the point is to find happiness. I am getting rid of all the items that I do not need and learning to not rely on stuff to bring happiness so that I can be free, physically and mentally, to spend time with those I care about and have the mobility to have joyous experiences. Combined with not having to spend a lot to live comfortably, I hope to have the ultimate freedom.


@J_L13- I know exactly what you mean. Even in the company of like minded saving folks, I still find myself being more extreme and feeling odd in those places as well. I remember going to my first ERE meetup and having people being shocked that I hand wash and hang dry all my clothes instead of using a washing machine. It’s the whole wheaton scale shock value at play.

@JamesR- I’m in IT. I remember the annual review of my first job out of college and only getting a 2% raise. That was the point I realized sitting in the same position just wasn’t going to cut it. So I just started studying my ass off and working really hard at improving myself. At least where I was, the folks that were the jack off all trades didn’t end up getting paid much in the long run. So I just started focusing on a speciality. As I learned more and more, I made sure to get as many certifications along the way as I could. I have “expert” level ones now that really don’t much other than being excellent resume fodder. I switched employers fairly often as that’s the point where large raises tend to happen so having really good checkboxes on various skills and education levels really helped.

@spoonman- Nice. It’s a daunting goal to have. I can mentally see myself getting there but actually doing it is another story. Do you plan on getting to that point before or after you move to the PNW?

spoonman
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:15 am

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by spoonman »

@IwantLess: It'll be after our stint in the PNW. Our time in the PNW will allow us to get aclimated to our new budget. After six months or so we plan on selling/donating 95% of our stuff so we can travel the world lightly.

Pronoid
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: The Journal of IwantLess

Post by Pronoid »

Last month has been more of the same. I've sold a few more items on craigslist and am still on track with the savings. I foolishly invested the hoard of cash I was sitting on after repeatedly reading the 'don't time the market' notion over and over right before mr market decided to go down in the slump it's in. Oh well. Other than that the biggest change was probably my method of doing laundry.

So laundry is a topic that I get more weird looks then when talking about ERE stuff. Almost 15 months ago, I was happily cleaning my clothing like most people in a regular washing machine and dryer thinking nothing of it. Then I moved to my tiny ass studio apartment across the country without those fancy devices. I really hate laundromats since they are an inconvenience and time waste in addition to having to sometimes hang out with sketchy folk. So right away I bought the wonderwash and spin dryer to try out in the new apartment.

Image

Image


I have been successfully cleaning all of my clothing, jeans, sheets, towels, whatever with this setup since with no issues. I'm not rolling in the mud or splashing wine on myself so I'm just washing away everyday funk and gym sweat. People definitely can't wrap their heads around washing clothing this way though.

However, over the past few months I have gotten rid of all my cotton shirts, jeans, underwear, regular towels, etc and downsized/replaced them with merino wool and synthetics to align with my fit-everything-into-backpack-goal. As a result, my normal 2-3 wonderwash loads per week decreased to 1 load per week due to the newer clothing being more compact.

I had a birthday not to long ago and asked for this:

Image

The scrubba wash bag. It's basically a dry stuff sack with bumps on the inside to scrub your clothing against. It's kind of pricey at $55 but it works great(*). I just need to do 2 loads per week in the scrubba and I'm good to go. It washes the clothing just fine and doesn't take too long. I need to get better at towel squeezing my wet clothes but even with my current gentle wringing the load is still dry by morning. Quick dry clothing FTW! So now I'm selling the wonderwash and spin dryer and the new scrubba bag is ridiculously compact to fit in my backpack. Clean clothing issue solved. I probably won't tell people I wash my clothes this way since I'll for sure be dooming myself.

(*)If I didn't get it as a gift, I would just buy something like this and add my own bumps inside: http://www.amazon.com/SealLine-Purge-Ko ... 0075JKA04/

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