DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
Ricky
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby Ricky » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:13 pm

Man! You really should keep your income a secret from your in-laws - else they will likely always expect help. Doesn't MIL draw SSI? Or FIL for that matter?

I'm surprised you retain your motivation given how much of your money goes towards things that don't directly benefit you. That would eat me alive!

Barlotti
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:58 am

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby Barlotti » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:52 am

How did your in laws handle their financial problems before you came on the scene?

I wish your in laws would give you and your wife more space. Does it occur to them that their financial neediness might be creating stress in your family?

llorona
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:44 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby llorona » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:21 pm

Obviously it's your call as to what determines the need for a bailout. But a baby shower? Really?

tommytebco
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:48 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby tommytebco » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:19 am

When we have saved a "pile" it is natural to brag a bit. Natural, but not wise.

It might be better to continue to live frugal and talk about that, only vaguely referring to "investments" which are for retirement.

A large segment of "us" feels the rich should share. This thinking gets perverted into situations like yours.

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Chad
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby Chad » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:23 am

I'm finally catching up with your journal. Very impressive. I feel like I have been slacking comparatively. Good luck with the extended family. I'm not sure I could be as generous as you.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:29 am

@Ricky, they both do, however they have no savings to speak off. So every time they overspend, it either goes on the credit card or somehow it falls on my shoulders.

@Barlotti, my in-laws basically got a house free of charge and a large inheritance when my wife's grandfather passed away. So (much like my dw and myself 5 years ago) I don't think they have ever had to develop strong money management skills. The problem now however is that they are old, the inheritance has been frittered away and they still need money. What is happening now is that myself and my dw's sister's husband have been paying for the extras :(

@llorona, yeah I was pretty pissed off about that. But I'm currently developing some countering strategies that will be executed in the coming months. The trick is to stop/reduce the bailouts without visibly offending anyone.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:37 am

@tommytebco, I never talk about it. I think DW has been bragging to her family about our situation. The bail outs are annoying but it keeps the peace in the household.

@Chad, thanks for checking in. The extended family situation is very annoying but ultimately I think it can be efficiently contained. The key, imho, is patience.

WorkingWageWealth
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby WorkingWageWealth » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:22 pm

I continued to be inspired.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Mon May 26, 2014 7:37 pm

Here are the numbers for March:

Income:
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Expenses:
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Monthly Savings Rate: 32.5%

YTD Savings Rate: 29.4%

Months Living Expenses: 60 months

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Mon May 26, 2014 7:53 pm

Here are the numbers for April:

Income:
Image

Expenses:
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Monthly Savings Rate: 36.8%

YTD Savings Rate: 31.25%

Months Living Expenses: 82.5 months

cimorene12
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:10 am

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby cimorene12 » Mon May 26, 2014 9:01 pm

DebtSlaveNoMore wrote:@Ricky, they both do, however they have no savings to speak off. So every time they overspend, it either goes on the credit card or somehow it falls on my shoulders.

@llorona, yeah I was pretty pissed off about that. But I'm currently developing some countering strategies that will be executed in the coming months. The trick is to stop/reduce the bailouts without visibly offending anyone.


In your shoes, I'd tell your wife that it's fine to bail out her family; it just has to come from her cash allowance. (How she still gets it when she doesn't work is a whole other thing, but I won't get into it. I get that you have to keep the peace.) It's her prerogative to brag about whatever she wants to talk about - it should also fall on her to shoulder the burden/consequences when she wants to save her family members. It's a noble cause, of course, but one that should cost her something when it happens.

Right now, I feel like you are being used as an ATM by her family. I view that role as undesirable, and I get the impression that you do, too.

It's easy to have a marital fight about financially supporting your wife's family, so I'd be really careful about how you frame the logic.
You want your wife's family to be comfortable.
You feel uncomfortable constantly throwing money out to them, since that's counter to your principles (and the idea of growing your net worth). It's also an unpredictable and stressful expense.
Because you'd like to keep these costs under control, you'd like her to take responsibility for helping her family when they need help. The money shouldn't come from your joint account, but rather from hers.

If you can't make them stop, they will sponge off you for the rest of your life/marriage. Nip that now, while it's still only a couple hundred dollars. Otherwise, (this has happened in my family), you get family members flying off the other countries, maxing out their credit cards, and coming back expecting their siblings to pay off all of the debt. Year after year. Don't do that to yourself. It does not feel good.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:05 pm

@cimorene12, this really is a tricky situation. I have for the time being found a very effective strategy at keeping these bail outs under control. I just publicly talk about how glad I am to help out my relatives in from of them and other relatives. This has worked out really well, because:

a. Nobody can say anything bad about me, since I AM helping out multiple people monetarily.
b. My wife looks good in the eyes of her family.
c. My in-laws and other relatives are feeling embarrassed so their demands for money gets toned down quite a bit.

I'm not sure how long this tactic will last, but so far so good.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:10 pm

May has come and gone, here are the numbers:

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Monthly Savings Rate: 65.9%

YTD Savings Rate: 38.18%

Months Living Expenses: 110.5 months

cimorene12
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:10 am

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby cimorene12 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:34 pm

DebtSlaveNoMore wrote:@cimorene12, this really is a tricky situation. I have for the time being found a very effective strategy at keeping these bail outs under control. I just publicly talk about how glad I am to help out my relatives in from of them and other relatives. This has worked out really well, because:

a. Nobody can say anything bad about me, since I AM helping out multiple people monetarily.
b. My wife looks good in the eyes of her family.
c. My in-laws and other relatives are feeling embarrassed so their demands for money gets toned down quite a bit.

I'm not sure how long this tactic will last, but so far so good.


It may not last that long. They could consider it social proof that you have all the money in the world to give to your wife's family. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof
DebtSlaveNoMore wrote: Within 6 months, I believe that our family's total monthly spending will drop to around $2,500 per month. This is due to the following major reasons:

1. We no longer have to pay rent or a mortgage. Taxes/insurance on the house is approximately $280/month
2. Childcare costs have now dropped to $500 dollars per month because day care is so much cheaper in PA
3. Auto costs will fall by 50% to $200 a month because insurance/repairs/gas is that much cheaper in PA

As such, I'm anticipating that a minimum state of FI at 4% withdraw rate for my household can be reached by the middle of 2015 if all goes according to plans.


Your expenses for May 2014 are near your expenses for May 2013. Your optimism was good, but your plan hasn't happened within 6 months from November 2013. Public transportation is around $1000 a month now. You announced that you settled into your house in November and you had a public transportation cost of $112 for November and December. What changed to 10x your public transportation?

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:34 pm

Here are the numbers for June:

Image


Image

Monthly Savings Rate: 66.0%

YTD Savings Rate: 42.8%

Months Living Expenses: 90.5 months

Half year retrospective:

It's been over 6 months since we moved to a lower cost state. And many unexpected/hidden costs have cropped up. Our average savings rates definitely have not gone up as I had expected even though our core living costs have been effectively reduced by 50%.

As far as I can tell, the monthly surplus generated from the move has all been eaten up by a combination of lifestyle inflation, unexpected housing/auto repair expenses, and bailouts to my wife's relatives. At the end of the day, we are still pretty much looking at a 50-60% annual savings rate instead of the targeted 80-85% savings rate.

Now on the one hand, the lifestyle inflation and bailouts have really improved our marriage/relationship. My DW now has all the trappings of an upper middle-class life. She also has more spending money than nearly all of her friends and female relatives. Moreover the bailouts is making my wife look good in the eyes of her family. As a result, there are very few arguments in our household about the budget.

Otoh, with such high living expenses we are looking at at least 8 years before FI, assuming no additional lifestyle inflation. The thing that really gets to me is that, I'm totally fine living without any of these bells and whistles. If we could just shrink our standard of living down to where it was back in NYC, then I could quit my high stress job within 24 months.

Being that the situation is what it is, the only way to shorten the time to FI would be to drastically increase our monthly income while keeping a lid on further lifestyle inflation. The problem is that, I'm hitting a wall in terms of further income potential. I feel that all of my productive capabilities are pretty much maxed out at this point.... :cry:

George the original one
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby George the original one » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:14 pm

I think you can only increase that income by becoming a business with employees.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:47 am

@George the original one

I feel that's the only way to go too. I have been trying to expand my software side business, but it's rough going mainly because I have so little free time left.

@cimorene12

The $1000 dollars of public transportation was because I had to take the train to NYC several times that month due to work.

DebtSlaveNoMore
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:01 pm

It's been 2.5 years since my last post, and there has been significant changes during this time. To summarize:

1. I am definitely no longer a debt slave.
2. My son is no longer a baby, he's a hyper-active little boy
3. We have acquired a 2nd house to live in, our first house is back to being a rental property.

I like to get back to these ERE journals because these posts keep us on track. So for the month of November, here are our stats:

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Monthly Savings Rate: 81.7%

YTD Savings Rate: 62.4%

Months Living Expenses: 176

Notes:
We are currently focused on paying off our 2nd house's mortgage. The entire mortgage is scheduled to be paid off in 5 months. I find that after a certain point, slashing expenses further disturbs the peace of my household. So overall, we have had much more success in terms of growing our income(both active and passive) rather than cutting down on expenses.

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Eureka
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:03 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby Eureka » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:00 pm

Welcome back!

I just read your whole journal and enjoyed the way you chronicle your journey through life. It was a good read. It also made me reflect on my own situation. I can easily live on the amount of money you get from your financial investments, but I guess I also dislike spending all my time working way more than you do.

Looking forward to following your writings.

DebtSlaveNoMore
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: DebtSlaveNoMore's Journal

Postby DebtSlaveNoMore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:31 pm

Wow I can't believe it's been 3 months since my last update. It's hard to remember to update this journal because things have been going pretty much on auto-pilot at my household. So here are the stats for February:

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Summary:

Monthly Savings Rate: 70.3%
YTD Savings Rate: 69.7%


It's smooth sailing so far this year. Our savings rate seems to be holding steady at around 70%. It was impossible to drive it to higher levels this month due to unexpected medical and auto-repair bills. Also the grocery and restaurant spending seems to be going aggressively upwards for my family of 3. I remember years back when we were paying off student debt that our household was able to eat well on just $200-300 dollars worth of groceries a month. I need to work with DW to figure out how to bring the the food bills back to reasonable levels. $1700 a month a food seems too high to me. I don't like to disturb the peace in my household, and my DW rightfully points out that we are still saving 70% of our income. So I just need to figure out a nuanced way to approach this with her.


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