DW and I have been discussing a move to New Zealand. Neither of us have spent significant time outside the US (tourism only), but I know many of you are international. I'm hoping this thread can serve as a repository for "if I had known that" type wisdom about living and working abroad.
Any advice about navigating government bureaucracy? Any thoughts on how to avoid getting income-taxed by two countries for one paycheck?<-(!)
Expat Resources
Re: Expat Resources
Cant point to any resources but do live in NZ and can tell you that before you decide to move be aware that NZ is very expensive. Its not a particularly ERE friendly place in that sense. It is extremely expensive to buy a house and the quality is lower. NZ was recently ranked by the Economist magazine as having the most unaffordable housing in the world. This is price of housing vs incomes. Also no central heating,many houses are not insulated and lots of leaky homes. Rent is very expensive. Gas and public transport is very expensive. Food is expensive. Power is very expensive. Buying any consumer items like clothing or electronics will be much more expensive than what you have experienced in the US. The salaries are also low and certainly less than US.
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ThisDinosaur
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Re: Expat Resources
I am concerned about the double whammy of higher costs and lower wages. The fact is, we want to travel in that part of the world anyway. So, option #1)take several brief, ~week-long yuppie tourist trips with expensive airfare, 2)vagabond a few years and set back our existing savings, or 3)ditch the current job and house, get a work visa, and travel from a pacific home base while not touching the stash. Option 3 would delay my FI plans for a few years, but hopefully not send us backwards.
I'm also tentatively hoping the high costs and absence of ubiquitous central air will help my wife get used to more minimalist housing.
Having said all that, I don't have a clear idea of the magnitude of 'expensive' that we're talking about. Whats your budget look like, thrifty? Where are you from originally? And why are you still in NZ if its so hard to ERE there?
I'm also tentatively hoping the high costs and absence of ubiquitous central air will help my wife get used to more minimalist housing.
Having said all that, I don't have a clear idea of the magnitude of 'expensive' that we're talking about. Whats your budget look like, thrifty? Where are you from originally? And why are you still in NZ if its so hard to ERE there?
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jacob
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Re: Expat Resources
Almost every country in the world only requires residents to file taxes, so if you move from e.g. Sweden to France, you'll most likely (I'm just CYA, here) stop filing and paying taxes in Sweden and start paying them in France instead. The US is one of the few exceptions. The US taxes its citizens no matter where they live. If you're a US citizen, you will be filing taxes every year for the IRS... and you will also be filing and paying resident taxes in your new country. (So two returns.) Effectively, this just means that you can't escape the IRS, ever. However, non-residents have very high exemptions and deductibles, so it's unlikely that you'll be paying any US taxes unless you have mid-six-fig incomes.
So that's point one, an inescapable paper hassle. You can get around this by hiring/outsourcing to a tax-accountant. This might not be a big deal. It's quite possible that filing taxes in your new country is as easy as just signing a mailed out form or ignoring it if you agree. (My experience with paying taxes outside the US.) So none of that multi-hour hundred dollar exercise for a moderately complicated IRS return.
More importantly (and also mostly unique to the US as far as I know). The US has been cracking down on money laundering, etc. over the past decade or so and required all foreign banks to report the accounts of US residents. You'll get familiar with FBAR, FATCA, and FinREN forms. The US also has the international clout to make banks in other countries abide. The consequence of that is that foreign banks are sometimes/often reluctant to sign up US customers because they don't want the hassle of reporting this stuff. Therefore, as a US expat, you might find it much tougher to open a simple bank account in a foreign country. This unique hassle of American expat living is why many Americans give up their citizenship. It's pretty tricky to live without a bank account (ask anyone who do payday loans and check cashing), getting told that "Sorry, we don't do business with US citizens because of the resulting filing complications."
Okay, that was US centric .. now for the more generic stuff.
Travel could be an issue. It gets more costly either way (you to them, them to you). And it probably will happen and thus result in issues. Think weddings, funerals, ...
Government stuff is easy/familiar in first world countries. It's all very similar. Bored bureaucrats filling out forms for money resulting in pieces of plastic you need to get stuff done on occasion. Some of this may require a physical presence in the country that wants it.
However, for long term expat stays consider that you might get screwed if the political landscape changes from under you. For example, country A may suddenly decide not to pay out pension funds to people who haven't lived in the country for at least X years ... but you're counting X-3 years; so no more social security for you. At the same time country B might decide to deny citizenship or residence rights if you haven't lived there at least Y years .. but you're counting Y-5 years. Laws could also be instated demanding that expats (foreign nationals) make at least $30,000/year in income, thus requiring you to get a job.
One you go expat, you can expect no nation to have your interests in mind. You won't be exploited. A more likely outcome is that that you'll just be ignored and accidentally thrown under the bus due to various complexities.
Currently, the first world is undergoing some kind of populist/nationalist revival and a lot of laws that significantly impact international (elitist/globalist?) people are getting changed every other year. It's quite easy to fall between the cracks these days, especially if you're pursuing some kind of 2-sigma lifestyle. This makes it important to consider whether it's a good idea to put down roots (like a house or a pension plan) or whether it's better to stay mobile.
So that's point one, an inescapable paper hassle. You can get around this by hiring/outsourcing to a tax-accountant. This might not be a big deal. It's quite possible that filing taxes in your new country is as easy as just signing a mailed out form or ignoring it if you agree. (My experience with paying taxes outside the US.) So none of that multi-hour hundred dollar exercise for a moderately complicated IRS return.
More importantly (and also mostly unique to the US as far as I know). The US has been cracking down on money laundering, etc. over the past decade or so and required all foreign banks to report the accounts of US residents. You'll get familiar with FBAR, FATCA, and FinREN forms. The US also has the international clout to make banks in other countries abide. The consequence of that is that foreign banks are sometimes/often reluctant to sign up US customers because they don't want the hassle of reporting this stuff. Therefore, as a US expat, you might find it much tougher to open a simple bank account in a foreign country. This unique hassle of American expat living is why many Americans give up their citizenship. It's pretty tricky to live without a bank account (ask anyone who do payday loans and check cashing), getting told that "Sorry, we don't do business with US citizens because of the resulting filing complications."
Okay, that was US centric .. now for the more generic stuff.
Travel could be an issue. It gets more costly either way (you to them, them to you). And it probably will happen and thus result in issues. Think weddings, funerals, ...
Government stuff is easy/familiar in first world countries. It's all very similar. Bored bureaucrats filling out forms for money resulting in pieces of plastic you need to get stuff done on occasion. Some of this may require a physical presence in the country that wants it.
However, for long term expat stays consider that you might get screwed if the political landscape changes from under you. For example, country A may suddenly decide not to pay out pension funds to people who haven't lived in the country for at least X years ... but you're counting X-3 years; so no more social security for you. At the same time country B might decide to deny citizenship or residence rights if you haven't lived there at least Y years .. but you're counting Y-5 years. Laws could also be instated demanding that expats (foreign nationals) make at least $30,000/year in income, thus requiring you to get a job.
One you go expat, you can expect no nation to have your interests in mind. You won't be exploited. A more likely outcome is that that you'll just be ignored and accidentally thrown under the bus due to various complexities.
Currently, the first world is undergoing some kind of populist/nationalist revival and a lot of laws that significantly impact international (elitist/globalist?) people are getting changed every other year. It's quite easy to fall between the cracks these days, especially if you're pursuing some kind of 2-sigma lifestyle. This makes it important to consider whether it's a good idea to put down roots (like a house or a pension plan) or whether it's better to stay mobile.
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James_0011
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Re: Expat Resources
@Jacob
Are you sure about the tax thing? A good friend of mine is a US citizen and she is spending 11 months out of the US this year, she claims that she doesn't have to file taxes because of this (she also uses an accountant).
Are you sure about the tax thing? A good friend of mine is a US citizen and she is spending 11 months out of the US this year, she claims that she doesn't have to file taxes because of this (she also uses an accountant).
Re: Expat Resources
Even though NZ is not ERE friendly I am here because, although originally from Canada, I have mostly grown up here and it is home. My friends and most of my family are here. I have now built my career here. Also if I leave NZ I get interest on my student loan so thats also an incentive for me to stay. Asides from the cost the lifestyle is also quite nice.ThisDinosaur wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2017 7:13 pmHaving said all that, I don't have a clear idea of the magnitude of 'expensive' that we're talking about. Whats your budget look like, thrifty? Where are you from originally? And why are you still in NZ if its so hard to ERE there?
My budget is probably not too helpful as I have been hacking my way into low costs for some time which takes time and planning, not necessarily easy to arrive and replicate. more helpful would be more general data. Have a look at numbeo.com to do some price comparisons. Also look at expatistan.com. Look at all the main cities.
Re: Expat Resources
I haven't found any sites to be great for general advice on going expatriate. The good stuff you need to know seems to all be on country-specific sites. Look up blogs and stuff for your target destination, that can give you a ground-level view. The place you're likely to find general advice more helpful is on specific taxation issues, but if you're a UStatesian I can't offer any particular advice (except that yes, in some countries banking will be more difficult because your friendly neighborhood banker may not want to bring on the headache of reporting that dealing with US citizens now entails).
I don't think that there's really all that much 'I wish I'd known' stuff about my move to Geneva. Switzerland is an easy country to move to - well documented, lots of other expats sharing stories, very transparent. I thought about making a list at some point in case someone asked (and now someone has!) but I think it's mostly forgotten, so it can't have been that important.
There was one moment where I discovered there was a customs form that I did not know about, and by some stroke of luck I found out about it (I forget how) about a week before my shipment of household items arrived. I didn't know about it, by that I mean neither my organisation nor my removalists had told me. Had it not been filled out it could have made me liable for import taxes, perhaps holding costs, and other annoyances. Something that sticks in mind about this form was that it specifically required filling out in blue pen. Apparently filling it out in black gets the form rejected. No joke! Perhaps then my advice is that customs can cause headaches? If you're only travelling with the stuff that you carry with you then it's probably no biggie - unless you're stopped at the border, searched, and accused, something people looking to migrate to the US with a mobile phone in their pocket may wish to beware of.
I don't think that there's really all that much 'I wish I'd known' stuff about my move to Geneva. Switzerland is an easy country to move to - well documented, lots of other expats sharing stories, very transparent. I thought about making a list at some point in case someone asked (and now someone has!) but I think it's mostly forgotten, so it can't have been that important.
There was one moment where I discovered there was a customs form that I did not know about, and by some stroke of luck I found out about it (I forget how) about a week before my shipment of household items arrived. I didn't know about it, by that I mean neither my organisation nor my removalists had told me. Had it not been filled out it could have made me liable for import taxes, perhaps holding costs, and other annoyances. Something that sticks in mind about this form was that it specifically required filling out in blue pen. Apparently filling it out in black gets the form rejected. No joke! Perhaps then my advice is that customs can cause headaches? If you're only travelling with the stuff that you carry with you then it's probably no biggie - unless you're stopped at the border, searched, and accused, something people looking to migrate to the US with a mobile phone in their pocket may wish to beware of.
Re: Expat Resources
@thrifty++ Isn't rural land cheap though ? When I was there in the 1990s I remember people would buy a house and have it delivered on the back of a lorry to their site. One I saw was resting on top of oil cans in the middle of a field.
Re: Expat Resources
@chenda it depends where that rural land is. If it is anywhere near one of the main cities or near warmer and sunnier areas of NZ it will be expensive. If it is remote and cold rural land then it will not be expensive. Dont really know that any land in NZ is "cheap" now though. NZ has changed alot since the 90s. I think things were great here then. However ever since about 2001 cost of living has continued to skyrocket while incomes have been quite stagnant.