Zalo's Vanabode Log

[TopHatFox]

Something to keep me accountable. Currently in the research phase. Biggest excitement is being able to travel long term, microadventure, and "farm" (see: MMORPGs) at significantly low costs, <$500/mo. Biggest fear is not being able to invite people over and getting harrased by the law or fired by corporate. An important priority is creating a vanabode that is not only highly functional and stealthy-enough, but aesthetically pleasing; I'd like to create a nice space, especially inside, so that I feel comfortable in it and in inviting others over.

[daylen]

Things to consider: waste, human waste, cooking, extreme weather, energy, propane vs butane, sleeping, parking, contingencies, smoke detection, noise distractions, insulation, ventilation, storage design, water storage, hygiene, internet, stealth at night, access to storage, changing clothes, what services to outsource, keeping thing clean, and so forth.

[TopHatFox]

Some updates. I think I'd like the van to have:

1. The choice for standing Room: A pop-top van
2. Stealth: that's otherwise an inconspicuous and ubiquitous work man's van
3. Nice interior: wood flooring, fairy lights, a rug, a small tapestry or two, skylight; not sure about side-windows or insulation yet
4. Power: I'd probably carry a second battery and possibly install solar panels (stealth decrease )
5. Refrigeration: For now a large iGloo cooler and weekly shopping will have to do
6. Sell-ability: apparently 8C vans are easier to re-sell than 6C
7. Room: possibly a long-wheel base for extra room (stealth decrease, more unstable at high-way speeds, harder to drive/park in cities)
8. Hot-food: a 12v oven and 12v induction hot plate, solar oven
8. Convenient: I'd really like a clothing rack and small desk or standing desk with pop top up
9. Nice smell: a battery powered essential oil diffusser, cooking vent, and maybe a "food smell absorber"
10. Toilet: Still looking into this, apparently there are little toilets that one can carry around
11. Shower: a plastic basin and sponge will do, cold water OK, maybe make a "privacy curtain" (?)
12. Mirror: plastic to prevent shards
13. Pantry: not much to say, pull out drawers underneath the bed maybe?
14. Trash/Recycling: a little bin to collect trash and recycling
15. Internet: not sure, maybe park within range of xfinity or make deliberate trips to library
16. Safety: need to do more research here, I'm quite scared of propane or other flammable fuels atm. Sliding door would be good.
17. Music: a blue-tooth high quality travel speaker with music stored or streamed via wi-fi
18. A place to rest: likely a 6 ft. twin mattress horizontally in the back (sorry if you're taller than that?)
19. Room for one or two extra guests besides me & PP: might be pushing it, but it'd be nice, I can use my camping gear for this?
20. Legal protection: insurance, driver's license, legal codes saying it's OK to camp in a vehicle in the area, etc.
21. Cleaning tools: small broom & pan, microfiber mop, duster, toilet scrubber, sponges, travel hair clipper
22. Not a creepy look: I don't want guests looking from outside in to think I'm a mass murderer working out of a van, that'd be great ~
23. Water storage: maybe a 4 G bottle with a hand pump?
24. Sustainability in mind: if I can get it to run on vegetable oil that'd be pretty great (and non-explosive, I might add)
25. A Name: Hippy Mobile? FIRE-Van? Bob?

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Maybe something like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=pop+top ... xZCTu2M%3A

Thoughts?

[daylen]

Power is a hassle. For a working power system you need several deep-cycle batteries, an inverter, and either a generator or solar panels or both. Good generators are expensive and can be very loud (quieter ones will cost you). A good system will be north of 1k.

See if you can live without power. You can always use portable, rechargeable batteries and outlets at work/library/school.

Cooking with induction is relatively efficient yet still costs a bit of energy; 12V is not a lot. Propane is a good all around option for cooking and heating your van. If you are scared of explosions then keep the propane in a shock resistant container or mount to the outside of the vehicle in case of a crash. The actual probability of anything happening is very low, given you take precautions. Gas fuel is safer than liquid fuel. Look into cooking with boiling water in an insulated container. Pressure cooker energy saving benefits are multiplied when living in a van!

For a toilet, liquids are easy to take care of as a man (just use a wide mouth bottle), as for solids a bucket lined with a trash bag and a toilet seat on top will do. Do NOT mix solids and liquids.

For hygiene, wet wipes are extremely useful to have around.

Using the library Internet will save money. You could also use a hot spot, but be wary of data usage. Invest in data storage and store books/movies/shows/music off-line.

Consider raising your bed and using the space below for storage. Do not forget about the ceiling! Hang stuff there, use a net, mount baskets, get creative!

[TopHatFox]

@ daylen: do you currently live in a van?

[daylen]

No, but a have spent a lot of time thinking about it

[TopHatFox]

Yeah, same. *high five*

[C40]

1. The choice for standing Room: A pop-top van
2. Stealth: that's otherwise an inconspicuous and ubiquitous work man's van

Having the pop-up in the up position makes it obvious to nearly everyone that you're camping in there. It's the most un-stealthy van possible. I've never seen or heard of a work van having a pop-up. I have seen some work vans with high tops.


3. Nice interior: wood flooring, fairy lights, a rug, a small tapestry or two, skylight; not sure about side-windows or insulation yet

I recommend using something other than wood for the floor. Something flat without any seams (like linoleum from a big roll). With my wood floor, whenever I spill/drip some water, I worry that its dropping/wicking down between the boards and will rot/warp them


4. Power: I'd probably carry a second battery and possibly install solar panels (stealth decrease )
8. Hot-food: a 12v oven and 12v induction hot plate, solar oven

Don't use the engine starter/accesory battery for anything besides starting the engine and running the native van accessories while the engine is running. In other words, don't hook up a cooking device or anything else to the engine battery (besides like a cell-phone while you're driving). Starting batteries aren't meant for loads like a cooker and they will be ruined quickly.



8. Convenient: I'd really like a clothing rack and small desk or standing desk with pop top up

Since you'll be working, a clothing rack would be nice so your clothes aren't wrinkly.


11. Shower: a plastic basin and sponge will do, cold water OK, maybe make a "privacy curtain" (?)

Yep. Experiment at home first. I've settled on using wet handerchiefs. No basin needed. Uses very little water. Handerchiefs (thin cloth) dry quickly.



16. Safety: need to do more research here, I'm quite scared of propane or other flammable fuels atm. Sliding door would be good.
A reminder, there is a huge tank of gasoline or diesel right under the floor. Fuel can be very safe. I've been using 1lb propane canisters and a little stove that screws onto them. Seems like very very little risk.

17. Music: a blue-tooth high quality travel speaker with music stored or streamed via wi-fi
Consider headphones. They use a lot less power

23. Water storage: maybe a 4 G bottle with a hand pump?
I've seen that in pictures and I think it looks like a good setup (where the pump is just right in the bottle, no sink). Alternatively, these are durable and secure and a good deal for the money: These ULINE Jerricansare good. And they make a 5 gallon version that looks like the same design. They seem to make good stuff. But their Carboys are not. They leak too easily).

[James_0011]

@c40

Do you ever experience social isolation from van dwelling or worry about it?

This is the biggest thing holding me back from such a lifestyle. I would think that people would be turned off from interacting with me knowing that I live in a van, although those aren't really the types of people I am interested in anyways.

How do you find like minded people as a van dweller?

[TopHatFox]

@James - the idea/fear of isolation is holding me back too, especially from wanting to invite women over </3

But maybe the van is a filtering mechanism? I can imagine people in permaculture, climate activism, and sustainable building communities would be all over this idea. And one can take cool pictures like those C40 has all over his journal to sell the idea before having people visit? Plus, if the interior is really luxurious, that can help too? If it's parked southward in a nice naturey area rather than a dingy parking lot that would help too. Perhaps having the option to make the exterior beautiful rather than stealthy if parked in the right area could be useful too.

Now that I think about it, practical adaptability to fit the situation at the time seems to be key in van living.

[daylen]

+1 filtering. People who are at least open minded enough to be curious of van-dwelling are more interesting in my opinion.

[James_0011]

Yeah the filter thing makes sense. I guess I just feel like I am "different" enough with my lifestyle choices (eating "healthy", not drinking, using psychedelic drugs, wearing used clothing, etc..). It might be a different case in a larger, more progressive city where it is possible to meet radical types.

[TopHatFox]

16. Safety: need to do more research here, I'm quite scared of propane or other flammable fuels atm. Sliding door would be good.

A reminder, there is a huge tank of gasoline or diesel right under the floor. Fuel can be very safe. I've been using 1lb propane canisters and a little stove that screws onto them. Seems like very very little risk.

I like the idea of putting the propane tanks in a shock container, especially somewhere away from the big pile of fuel under the floor. Is there a way to put the big tank of diesel or gasoline in a shock tank as well?

[Ego]

I like the idea of putting the propane tanks in a shock container, especially somewhere away from the big pile of fuel under the floor. Is there a way to put the big tank of diesel or gasoline in a shock tank as well?

Fuel tanks in vehicles are designed to withstand a lot of shock and propane tanks that are made to be mounted on a van like the one below are pretty bombproof as well.



If you need stealth and want economy as well as simplicity then C40's template is pretty close to perfect IMO.

The guy over at http://thevanual.com/ had an interesting idea with the flip up window covers for safety....



From the outside it looks like a work van when in stealth mode. The inside looks like this when closed up for the night.

[luxagraf]

16. Safety: need to do more research here, I'm quite scared of propane or other flammable fuels atm. Sliding door would be good.

A reminder, there is a huge tank of gasoline or diesel right under the floor. Fuel can be very safe. I've been using 1lb propane canisters and a little stove that screws onto them. Seems like very very little risk.

I like the idea of putting the propane tanks in a shock container, especially somewhere away from the big pile of fuel under the floor. Is there a way to put the big tank of diesel or gasoline in a shock tank as well?

I'm the opposite, I'm nervous about electricity, even 12V. Propane does not have the potential to spark. No spark, no fire (or less chance anyway).

We haven't moved in yet (still waiting for our house to sell) but I've spent the last 18 months restoring a vintage RV (26ft) into a home for my wife, myself and 3 kids. Overall I'd say your list is pretty spot on, but I'd add that whatever you plan to do to the van (which is obviously quite a bit different than an RV, but still), plan on it costing about twice as much as you think and taking twice as long.

on the internet thing, I haven't actually done it and the cost is significant, but it's possible to have unlimited access to the sprint data network: http://boingboing.net/2016/09/22/i-have ... nel-t.html I make my money over the internet so the expense doesn't bother me, but I'm still taking they "don't buy anything until you really need it approach".

As for social isolation, I don't have that with 5 people in ~80 sq ft, but I've seen quite a few interesting and creative solutions like listing an extra sleeping spot in your van on couch surfing, spending some time in hostels when traveling to meet people, taking time off the van to stay with others (couch surfing style), hanging out out west with other van dwellers (RTR event and others like it). It's been my experience traveling the US and elsewhere that meeting people is almost never a problem and these days I think there's very little stigma attached to that lifestyle. Whether that means the girl of your dreams follows you out to a van in the woods after your first date is another story.

Anyway, I say go for it.

[bryan]

C40 already gave you his feedback, I'll add mine.

> 1. The choice for standing Room: A pop-top van

Agreed w/ C40 re: stealth. Otherwise, a pop-top may be a good solution if you need to access places that require low height (some drive-thrus, parking garages, public street parking).

To each their own, but I would rather just have a hard-top. Also, VW's are much too small.

> 2. Stealth: that's otherwise an inconspicuous and ubiquitous work man's van
> 3. Nice interior: wood flooring, fairy lights, a rug, a small tapestry or two, skylight; not sure about side-windows or insulation yet

Some insulation is advised. There's a big selection out there and I'm not sure which is the best solution. I was thinking of a mixed solution like aerogel on the ceiling or floor (where standing clearance may be important, most heat transfer from roof and sides) and something else on the walls.

I am thinking It's not such a big deal since you have such a small space to heat/cool (relative to a house), especially if you are spartan enough to just bundle up when it's cold or get out of the van any time it is hot. As far as flooring, my leading option for the longest time has been a solid layer which makes cleaning the van as easy as spraying a hose and sweeping or never worrying about spilt milk, wine.

> 4. Power: I'd probably carry a second battery and possibly install solar panels (stealth decrease )
> 5. Refrigeration: For now a large iGloo cooler and weekly shopping will have to do

You can build your own "solar panels" (quotes because I mean you could arrange the solar cells in a less typical arrangement right on the roof) or wait until Telsa comes out with their shingle tech (and an aftermarket supplier makes it available). This would be more stealthy and space optimal. If you use a battery, look to what is used for tiny homes, RVs, van-dwelling, EVs, boating, etc..

The best thing is avoid needing any refrigeration or too much energy (you could charge a smartphone from car battery OK). It's doable with some planning and easier in some situations (I did it for two years urban dwelling).

> 6. Sell-ability: apparently 8C vans are easier to re-sell than 6C
> 7. Room: possibly a long-wheel base for extra room (stealth decrease, more unstable at high-way speeds, harder to drive/park in cities)

To each their own. Maybe you can experiment with a smaller size and upgrade if you need to? Or the opposite? I feel that fitting into a single parking space is important.

> 8. Hot-food: a 12v oven and 12v induction hot plate, solar oven

Wayyy better options for heating than electric! Throw in some pressure or insulation for efficiency.

> 8. Convenient: I'd really like a clothing rack and small desk or standing desk with pop top up
> 9. Nice smell: a battery powered essential oil diffusser, cooking vent, and maybe a "food smell absorber"
> 10. Toilet: Still looking into this, apparently there are little toilets that one can carry around

Again, I lived for two years with nothing in the van other than a sleeping pad/bag, basically. Just reiterating that van space is at a premium and to think hard (or experiment) about what you really need. That being said, a toilet would certainly be near the top of my list for things to put in a van. I was thinking of a custom-built toilet, of course. Main feature being a tank, that can do some processing, hooked up to the speedometer to engage the slow-drip drain onto the road.

> 11. Shower: a plastic basin and sponge will do, cold water OK, maybe make a "privacy curtain" (?)
> 12. Mirror: plastic to prevent shards
> 13. Pantry: not much to say, pull out drawers underneath the bed maybe?
> 14. Trash/Recycling: a little bin to collect trash and recycling

Your van is starting to feel a little cluttered. Consider items that expand as they are filled up (like bags, bungees, etc)

> 15. Internet: not sure, maybe park within range of xfinity or make deliberate trips to library

For daily, non-video, stuff, there are a few affordable data plans out there. Also you can buy/build a wifi/cellular antenna.

> 18. A place to rest: likely a 6 ft. twin mattress horizontally in the back (sorry if you're taller than that?)
> 19. Room for one or two extra guests besides me & PP: might be pushing it, but it'd be nice, I can use my camping gear for this?

Hammocks and extra floor space would be my sleeping offerings for guests.

> 20. Legal protection: insurance, driver's license, legal codes saying it's OK to camp in a vehicle in the area, etc.

It's a grey area (or illegal) pretty much everywhere. Best case you can just hope to minimize your risks by either being fully up to code (convert to RV and get RV insurance), have plausible deniability ("this is just a weekend thing" and not having stuff built-in like cooking implements, toilet, etc), or just break the laws.

> 23. Water storage: maybe a 4 G bottle with a hand pump?

If it's a lot of water (not just a few Gs) prefer to place the storage at a low point. Remember to consider weight distributions within the van (I think keeping the stock ratios between L/R, F/R are suggested).

> 24. Sustainability in mind: if I can get it to run on vegetable oil that'd be pretty great (and non-explosive, I might add)

And very limiting.

Do you ever experience social isolation from van dwelling or worry about it?

This is the biggest thing holding me back from such a lifestyle. I would think that people would be turned off from interacting with me knowing that I live in a van, although those aren't really the types of people I am interested in anyways.

How do you find like minded people as a van dweller?

Business as usual. Not much changed other than not having roommates. It might force you out into a more active social life, even.

@James - the idea/fear of isolation is holding me back too, especially from wanting to invite women over </3

It's not a big deal. You'll figure out how to present yourself and your #vanlife. It might get you more women, even.

[jacob]

I read somewhere (I forget where ... maybe it's a well-known van blogger already) that unless you plan to boondock, you can just hook your deep cycle batteries up so they charge from the vehicle's 12V system (maybe insert a controller in the loop or whatever) whenever you drive around. This would avoid having to install panels.

[Ego]

That's what I did. I installed an Optima Yellowtop. Some people install a selector switch. I used a controller to automatically switch over to charging the Yellowtop once the van batter was full.

[TopHatFox]

Hah, how many of you have or are living in a van?

These are all really useful ideas.

----------------

The van in the pictures looks stunning, glamping even!

How are the pop-up windows safer than standard windows? And is insulation healthy in such tight proximity to the user? (Maybe densely packed cellulose would be best?). Either way, I imagine I'd definitely need insulation considering it can cool down to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, if not negative, in New England.

This lifestyle is starting to sound a lot easier on the go rather than as a static dwelling; It's a lot easier to get up and go if harassed if you don't intend to stay and work in a place for at least a few years. I wonder what the ratio of van dwellers in "static residence" to "city hoppers" is.

[luxagraf]

That's what I did. I installed an Optima Yellowtop. Some people install a selector switch. I used a controller to automatically switch over to charging the Yellowtop once the van batter was full.

I don't want to hijack zalo's thread, but @ego, which controller did you use?

I've got a Perko selector switch an electrician friend gave me that I was planning to use to switch between starter and house batteries (I've used this system on boats, so I know it works), but automating that switch over while running would be nice, and since I haven't bought a controller yet...