Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

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Jean
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by Jean »

Not reproducing is a solution only if you prevent other humans from using the ressources your kids would have used.
Those ressources will need people to watch over them, if we don't wan't them to turn into climate impacting wastes.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Sclass said: Toaster ovens and warm pajamas are useful stuff. I bake cakes in my toaster oven to save me from using my giant electric oven to bake a tiny cake. Pajamas save on energy bills.
Yeah, but usually I would buy them on the used market. Also, I only wear pajamas when I sleep alone.

It seems like it would be less wasteful to buy a toaster oven that was manufactured someplace closer than China, but it might be the case that it would require more solar acreage units of potatoes to feed an American factory worker than a Chinese factory worker.
jean said: Not reproducing is a solution only if you prevent other humans from using the ressources your kids would have used.
Those ressources will need people to watch over them, if we don't wan't them to turn into climate impacting wastes.
Right. It's kind of like the chapter in Freakonomics where he shows how some people choosing to be celibate actually promotes the spread of venereal disease in the general population. A simple moral analysis plan of action along the lines of "Do no harm." and/or "What if everybody did it?" is not likely to promote the best practicable solution.

Also, I wonder whether it wouldn't be better to choose to burn through the coal first rather than last?

I don't know if you read "The Ecotechnic Future"? Greer predicts that first there will be the age of Scarcity Industrialism, then the age of the Salvage Society, and then the Ecotechnic Age. I am attempting to jump over the first two and make a model of the Ecotechnic age with my permaculture project, but the KiloCalorie Kings of the Industrial Age in my social circle keep dragging me away. Sounds like you are totally living in the Salvage Society already yourself. How cool!

Riggerjack
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by Riggerjack »

Not reproducing is a solution only if you prevent other humans from using the ressources your kids would have used.
Those ressources will need people to watch over them, if we don't wan't them to turn into climate impacting wastes.
The very idea that
Those ressources will need people to watch over them, if we don't wan't them to turn into climate impacting wastes.
is completely counterproductive. We need to make people to protect the environment from people. Seriously? I'm thinking of every adult child of peace and love hippies I ever met. Almost all of them HATE that shit. But I'm sure your offspring will be the exception, and their offspring, all the way down the line.

If you actually care about the environment, do something about it. Buy a piece, and take care of it. Or, buy a conservation easement. Running your mouth, or " raising awareness ", does nothing productive. If you aren't that committed, fine, support an organization that actually protects the environment (ducks unlimited comes to mind), rather than bribes politicians and pays lawyers and lobbyists (Sierra club, WWF, et al)

Or not.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by EdithKeeler »

This discussion--maybe it was the monkey pajamas and toaster ovens?--reminded me of one of my favorite short stories, JG Ballard's "The Subliminal Man."
If you've never read it, I think it might be of interest to the ERE crowd.
http://esokrat.com/java-book/book/balla ... iminal-man
In it, the main character buys a new car every three months, a new washing machine the minute it becomes obsolete, etc. and teases his friend a bit because the friend doesn't buy into it. The working day is rising from 12 to 14 hours.

A great line from the story that speaks to the things ERE-ers contemplate:
what freedom Franklin possessed was peripheral, sharply demarked by the manifold responsibilities in the center of his life-the three mortgages on his home, the mandatory rounds of cocktail and TV parties, the private consultancy occupying most of Saturday which paid the installments on the multitude of household gadgets, clothes and past holidays. About the only time he had to himself was driving to and from work.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@EdithKeeler: Thanks for the link. I often enjoy reading archaic dystopian futures. Interesting which predictions proved correct and also what wasn't anticipated at all. The line just previous to the one you quoted above struck me as very relevant to some of the other discussions we are currently having on this forum.
The ability to react to stimuli, even irrationally, was a valid criterion of freedom.
I recently picked up "Capital" by John Lanchester, who is also the author of the non-fiction work "How to Speak Money: What the Money People Say--And What It Really Means." I have read all of his other novels. Each one is unique and finely crafted. Highly recommend.
...and then the general hard-to-believe expensiveness of everything in London, restaurants and shoes and parking fines and cinema tickets and gardeners and the feeling that every time you went anywhere or did anything money just started melting off you. Roger didn't mind that, he was completely up for it, but it did mean that if he didn't get his million-pound bonus this year he was at genuine risk of going broke.
My friend who gave me the monkey-pajamas is a perfect example of the point made about reproduction by Jean. He is personally as frugal as anybody on this forum. He saves tomato seeds year after year and works out with a heavy bar he found in a dumpster. But, when he was in his mid 50s he fell into paternal love with the daughter-by-another-father of his long-time much younger drug addict girlfriend whom he keeps in a house he owns on the other side of town. So, this extremely wealthy, extremely frugal aging man is leaving all his money to a 22 year old girl who has a closet full of nothing but purses, and runs up $20,000 a month on the credit line he gave her without even blinking. Her boyfriend who lives with her gratis doesn't even haul himself out of bed in the morning to shovel the snow, so my 76 year old friend went over to do it. I couldn't even make this up if I tried. It's fascinating to me. It's like he is so frugal and so wealthy, he had to find somebody else to spend his money for him because he is incapable of doing it himself. Like Jack Sprat and his wife.

TopHatFox
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Location: FL; 25

Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by TopHatFox »

I think personal actions to mitigate climate change are largely useless if not taken in collective quantities. Still, personal actions are incredibly useful to change an individual life from a "poor" one to a "rich" one, whether financially, spiritually, environmentally, or by other measures.

Although it results in better environmental measures than lassie faire neoliberal capitalism, I also think the recent wave of eco-capitalism-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-capitalism-- doesn't effectively address climate change since it continues to justify a mostly profit-driven system. Eco-capitalism, and the narrative that individual changes such as recycling or riding one's bike to work can mitigate the climate crisis, will likely only lead to stalling the collective change needed to revolutionize a system that meets a higher percentage of the needs' of all people, other animals, and the environment in which we all live.

All of that said, I'd rather be a wealthy activist in a broken system than a broke one. : )

7Wannabe5
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Olaz: The article you linked might benefit from a bit of editing-lol. How would you define "eco-capitalism?" My weak understanding of systems theory leads me to believe that systems that we believe to be profit- driven are actually dominance driven. Corporate mission statement might be "We at Acme Screw are striving every day in every way to create the highest quality fasteners available." However, in order for the entity that is Acme Screw to survive, it must eventually make a profit, but growth towards dominance of the field, monopoly of the market, is its ultimate purpose. Roughly analogous to romance/sexual-pleasure/sexual-reproduction. In the moment it might seem like orgasm is the goal of sex, just like it might seem like profit is the goal of a corporation, but there won't be any more orgasms in the future absent sexual reproduction of erogenous bits and pieces.

Bismarck
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by Bismarck »

I live in an apartment and am curious how I can "offset" my grid power usage with renewables. I can't park solar panels on a non existent roof. Is there a good way to do this through financial instruments?

Riggerjack
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by Riggerjack »

I am confused by your use of offset. Most utilities have an option to upsell customers to green power sources, at a higher rate. At that point, your power is coming from green sources.

This gets me back on my one track about how cities are so unsustainable; and urban planning, to increase population density, is making them less sustainable all the time. Living in these unnatural, soul sucking places, causes people to worry about an environment they only see in nature documentaries and appeals for support from the environmental crisis activism industry. The more adventurous will go by road to the easily available areas open to the public, and see the wear and tear of being open to the public. They then extrapolate this wear and tear, to the rest of the planet.

When you live closer to nature, you see that nothing man does is permanent, and failure to maintain your works is all it takes for nature to have her way again. As my neighbor put it, "If you can't mow it, it's not cleared." He said this about some land he had cleared a few times, but didn't maintain. The woods grew back, quickly. Even Chernobyl will have almost no clear traces of even a Soviet footprint within my theoretical lifetime. In a few hundred years, it will take archaeologists to find it, and try to figure out what it was.

So, my personal solution is to get my own piece of the environment, and let it grow as it will. I highly recommend this approach. It is compatible with our economic system, educational, and aligns personal goals with personal actions. A path that generally leads to a sense of satisfaction and happiness. Plus, it is nice to go to your own land to camp, rather than being surrounded by other people when you try to get away.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Riggerjack said: I am confused by your use of offset. Most utilities have an option to upsell customers to green power sources, at a higher rate. At that point, your power is coming from green sources.
Will be available in my area in April 2017. Details won't be released until January.

I'm definitely a bi-polar city/country mouse, so I half agree with your take. I don't think it is necessary to live close to a large preserve to come to understand the relentlessness of nature. Becoming a gardener, or taking an interest in the nature that does exist wherever you are will serve. I mean, chicory growing in a vacant lot, cockroaches running under the cafeteria refrigerator, and streptococci growing in the throat of the 6 year old government-housing-project resident are just as much aspects of nature as giant sequoia, coral reefs and polar bears. One of the many projects/practices I keep starting and then neglecting is creating a list of all the forms of life that live or roam within my domain and range, identified down to variety. Every human being a unique variety.

In "Second Nature: A Gardener's Education", Michael Pollan makes the observation that as soon as you cut a trail, you have rendered a bit of wilderness into garden. IMHO, authority must always be balanced with responsibility. If you exert the first without taking on the second, you are a villain. If you take on the second without the securing the first, you will be sucked dry. In systems ecology, every boundary is understood to be arbitrary and artificial, but boundaries must be delineated and declared in order for us to take practicable action as individuals.

I second your solution in the form of taking ownership of a piece of the environment. That's what I'm doing with my third of an acre of nature in the city. Believe it or not, the one night I was brave enough to spend the night in my camper, I heard almost nothing but crickets. Unfortunately, I must report that I have done the simple math and even if the entire continent was somehow re-forested, it would not serve as enough of a sink for our current level of consumption and waste generation. Conservation efforts are also necessary if we wish to preserve the variety of nature we now enjoy and depend upon.

Riggerjack
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by Riggerjack »

Unfortunately, I must report that I have done the simple math and even if the entire continent was somehow re-forested, it would not serve as enough of a sink for our current level of consumption and waste generation. Conservation efforts are also necessary if we wish to preserve the variety of nature we now enjoy and depend upon.
And this is why any serious conversation about the environment/conservation eventually runs up against a conversation about population. Or as a friend put it, "the smart ones stopped breeding generations ago." With 7 billion people on the planet, there is no personal solution to an environmental crisis that doesn't address the population crisis.

As much as I believe I am a beautiful, unique butterfly, I don't believe I have genes that need to be preserved against a pool of 7 billion, for the good of the race. The world will keep turning without my children. Eventually, this will be a common trait of successful 1st world couples, leading to a population drop, and an association of family size to poverty.

Alternatively, we continue down our current path, where those who care most dearly for the environment, change their priorities when biology takes the driver's seat. And conservation maintains its current state, a driving force in high school and college, and a marketing campaign after graduation.

Though, I have to admit that my wife and I are not having kids for a variety of reasons, not just to reduce our environmental impact. I just find it amusing how quickly the greenest people change their priorities when their kids come into the picture. 2.3 children means just kicking the can down the road, regardless of how many Greenpeace stickers are on the Volvo.

halfmoon
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by halfmoon »

Riggerjack,

If I tried to quote my favorite parts of your post, I would just repeat the entire thing. I feel a rant coming on, but you've really said it all.

ducknalddon
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by ducknalddon »

I suppose the biggest change for me was getting rid of my car, this wasn't that easy because we live in a semi-rural area where nearly everybody drives. There is a bus service which has just been upgraded, otherwise I walk or bike most places. My wife still has a car but I don't use it very much at all.

I stopped flying 16 years ago, if I need to travel in Europe I use the train, otherwise I just don't bother. I don't enjoy travelling so this hasn't been a sacrifice for me.

I've upgraded the windows, plumbing and part of the heating in my house, this has dropped out energy bill by about 35%, hopefully we will be able to switch to gas within the next year which should push it further. I've also got plans to increase the loft insulation which should also help a little. Mostly now I'm constrained by where we live and that won't change in the near future as we are supporting my mother in law.

rfgh
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by rfgh »

One of the biggest scams companies and governments ever pulled was making individuals think it's on their shoulders to solve the environmental crises.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

One of the biggest scams companies and governments ever pulled was making individuals think it's on their shoulders to solve the environmental crises.
And that a clean environment means a bad economy and a dirty environment means a good economy. Certainly some of China's recent success has been built on environmental destruction but protecting the environment can also mean new products and innovation that results in jobs and income.

ducknalddon
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by ducknalddon »

rfgh wrote:One of the biggest scams companies and governments ever pulled was making individuals think it's on their shoulders to solve the environmental crises.
Yes, this is somewhat similar to the way food companies keep refocusing attention on exercise as a solution to the obesity crisis.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Personal Solutions to the Environmental Crisis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Riggerjack said: Though, I have to admit that my wife and I are not having kids for a variety of reasons, not just to reduce our environmental impact. I just find it amusing how quickly the greenest people change their priorities when their kids come into the picture. 2.3 children means just kicking the can down the road, regardless of how many Greenpeace stickers are on the Volvo.
Men don't give birth to babies. Any fertile male is capable of impregnating hundreds of females. Therefore, any individual male's decision to remove himself from the gene pool through the practice of celibacy or the process of vasectomy can only have extremely small influence on population growth barring other cultural and economic factors. So, if I was Queen of the World ;) , I would only grant any man Green Points for childless status, to the extent he was willing/wanting to take credit for exerting influence or with-holding support in relationship to a specific female in this realm. IOW, if you went out into the dating/mating/marriage market with full intention to seek a female who was already resolutely opposed to bearing children herself then your actions did nil to change the ultimate equation. OTOH, if you purposefully engaged in behavior with the intent of wooing and enforcing monogamous contract with a female who was ambivalent about the joys of maternity through such means as displays of skill and presentation of shiny gifts, then I might choose to assign some Green Points on a sliding scale basis, yet to be fully determined.

I chose to remove myself from the gene pool after two rounds of reproduction due primarily to such factors as fear of losing third one in the park, constant interruptions while attempting to read, and ex-husband who might be superficially described as "hipster." Therefore, I get ZERO points myself, and can only attempt to redeem myself through the practice of perma-culture and open expression of willingness to be happy with only 1 grandchild who may or may not be adopted from the general pool.

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