Obtaining a Second Passport

[Ego]

We drove to LA and got the mountain of documents certified at the consulate. As we waited for the very kind consular official to double check every document, Mrs. Ego outlined the details of La Dolce Vita themed citizenship party we'll be hosting when she finally gets her passport. The application process takes two years. Obviously, patience is a virtue necessary for la dolce vita.

[BRUTE]

totally worth it for the food

[Ego]

Received a letter today from the consulate saying the application was accepted by the Ministry of the Interior. 730 days to go.

[jim234]

I just got my British passport! Mom was a Brit and I got it by descent.

[Ego]

I just got my British passport! Mom was a Brit and I got it by descent.

That's great. How was the process? What documents did you have to provide?

[jim234]

I just got my British passport! Mom was a Brit and I got it by descent.

That's great. How was the process? What documents did you have to provide?

Her original birth certificate, my long birth certificate, my US passport, original documents. Took about 5 months.

[Ego]

Any opinions on the Italian referendum?

[BRUTE]

is this referendum like brexit?

[Ego]

is this referendum like brexit?

Si and No. It seems like many are making it out to be Brexitity but as far as I can see the purpose is to claw back some of the safeguards created after WW2 to avoid allowing a Mussolini to come to power. Those safeguards make it tough to make meaningful changes and some are afraid that without those meaningful changes Italy will follow Greece. That said, I know very little about it other than having read a few stories.

[BRUTE]

looks like the passport comes with citizenship duties as well. now Ego needs to keep up to date with 2 countries' political drama

[Seppia]

Any opinions on the Italian referendum?

The situation of Italian politics is bad, and obtaining unbiased information is close to impossible.
Keep in mind I will vote yes, but I am not a super convinced Yes voter.

The premise is that the current Italian system makes it close to impossible to do real reforms.
I don't know if it's the system or what else, but the fact is that aside for very, very little, nothing meaningful has changed in Italy in the last 20 years.
The only real reform that was passed was the pension reform, needed for sustainability (retirement age has been increased and payouts generally decreased. Italy has zero demographic growth FYI).

To simplify greatly:
Today we have two chambers, the Camera and the Senato.
Any law that needs to be passed has to be approved by both chambers, with the exact same text.
Any time the government did not have majority in both chambers, all that was needed to create gridlock was to simply change a bit the wording of a law, and send it back to the other chamber.
This was a lot more frequent than foreigners might think, because in Italy we do not have two big parties, but a multitude of smaller ones that usually unite in two coalitions.
Backstabbing is rampant, and the other very negative side effect is that a small party can hold ransom a government very easily.
Imagine coalition A has 55% of the votes of one chamber
One small 6% party in coalition A can stop any law by simply voting with coalition B on that particular subject.

This referendum proposes to greatly diminish the power of one of two chambers (the Senato), thus speeding up the process.

Proponents of the Yes camp say that the advantages are:
- governability of the Country by making law-making easier and faster, thus allowing reforms
- lower the cost of the government (the Senato would have less people with less salary)

The proponents of the No camp say:
- the risk is an authoritarian derive. The two chambers exist precisely to avoid concentrating too much power in one's hands.
- the reform is badly put toghether.

On top of this, the Prime Minister Renzi has basically made this a referendum on his popularity, so a lot of the No supporters see this as a way to send him home (the term coined was "Renxit") and not much more.

My point of view is:

- I'm sure the reform is badly written, I mean it has been done by Italians.
- at least we are heading in the right direction though, all those who claim it's badly written have been in power for a number of years and could have written a better one themselves.
- I see zero risk of Fascism coming back or anything similar. At least it would not be triggered by this reform. I don't believe authoritarian regimes are created by forms of government. Hitler was elected after all, and other authoritarian regimes usually TOOK power with force, regardless of forms of government.

What ultimately swung me though was the list of who is supporting the No side
- Berlusconi
- D'Alema and other old farts from the old school left coalition, people so bad as politicians they managed to lose to Berlusconi repeatedly
- The 5 star movement, possibly the most ridiculous political party on earth (its run by a comedian and among them there's believers that vaccines cause autism, that regular passenger planes spray chemicals in a master plan to control the weather, etc)
- the Northern League, who has feasted on racism for decades (they wanted to separate the wealthy north from the south up until a few years ago, now they've directed their anger towards anything non Italian).

Hope this helps.

[Ego]

What ultimately swung me though was the list of who is supporting the No side
- Berlusconi
- D'Alema and other old farts from the old school left coalition, people so bad as politicians they managed to lose to Berlusconi repeatedly
- The 5 star movement, possibly the most ridiculous political party on earth (its run by a comedian and among them there's believers that vaccines cause autism, that regular passenger planes spray chemicals in a master plan to control the weather, etc)
- the Northern League, who has feasted on racism for decades (they wanted to separate the wealthy north from the south up until a few years ago, now they've directed their anger towards anything non Italian).

Hope this helps.

Seppia, Thank You! Absolutely perfect timing as it has to be in the mail today.

I voted yes - thanks to you! The Berlusconi - 5star comment pushed me over the edge. Over the weekend I did a little research and got lost reading articles about Beppo Grillo. What a strange world we live in.

[BRUTE]

on a scale of 1 to Trump, where's Beppo Grillo?

[Seppia]

I guess it really depends how one views Trump.
I'm in the "with the candidacy of Hillary, the USA population would probably have elected even a screaming monkey instead of her" camp.
Obviously tons of hindsight on my part.
I don't have a very high esteem of the Donald.
I probably have an even lower esteem of Grillo

[Ego]

Back when I started researching for the citizenship project I began to slowly enter my ancestry information into familysearch.org, the free Mormon genealogical information resource. Today I logged into one of their sister projects, the BYU Virtual Pedigree Roots project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-mujv1LEyU

Virtual Pedigree pulls data from all of the genealogies ever created in familysearch.org and fills in the blanks. Apparently another user who is my distant relative had researched waaaaaay back because as of today I am now able to see generation to generation through my Grandmother's side to American Colonists and Knights and Dukes and Fridleif II King of Denmark and Kings of England and Saint Joseph of Arimathaea (who is believed to have buried Christ) and eventually way back 114 generations to..... get this.... Adam and Eve.

[Chad]

Did the user find out where the Garden of Eden was located? Wouldn't be bad investment as a tourist trap.

Based on extensive genealogy trees I have heard about, there appears to never have been peasants, slaves, indentured servants, people just living on some small farm somewhere, maids, etc. It appears 99% of the population in the US is descended from nobility in Europe.

I also never really understood the fascination with who your great great great grandfather was. It has zero bearing on the value you are in your life.

[Ego]

Chad, the funniest part is that my grandmother's people where all extremely modest (in every sense) coal miners. Modest. Hard to believe, I know. Most of the lines dried up four generations back but this one just kept going and going and going.

The non-Mormon people I know who are obsessed with it seem to be, like me, childless. I suspect there is a morbid fascination with the idea that, at least with this line, it all ends here. But I am sure there is more to it than that. The Denial of Death I posted in the other thread has got to have something to do with it.

[Chad]

Those modest people are probably part of the reason you are ERE.

The interest could definitely be related to childless, last in line, denial of death , etc. This is just one of those interests that strikes me as odd.

[fiby41]

One could also convert to Judaism or prove Jewish ancestry (a Jewish grandparent would suffice) to acquire Israeli citizenship.

I thought you need atleast your mother ('s side) to be a Jew in order to claim Jewish ancestry.

[halfmoon]

Back when I started researching for the citizenship project I began to slowly enter my ancestry information into familysearch.org, the free Mormon genealogical information resource. Today I logged into one of their sister projects, the BYU Virtual Pedigree Roots project.

I have no urge to research my ancestors, but I would worry in any case about entering ancestry information into any website that isn't password-protected (maybe these are?). The first question any financial institution asks to verify your identity is your mother's maiden name, and a lot of security questions also revolve around ancestors (grandmother's first name, for example). Of course, you can always lie...but you have to remember your lies.