Obtaining a Second Passport

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fiby41
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by fiby41 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:10 am

@elegant, ya and about 50,000 of those who converted, their conversion was cancelled and they were deported.

jacob
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by jacob » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am

Anyone worried about "what could possibly go wrong" with these dual citizenship arrangements?

Examples:

* Ending up in a situation that requires diplomatic intervention and having each country trying to wash its hands saying it's the responsibility of the other country? (hostage situation, sea wreck, ...)
* Getting drafted or otherwise fined for not providing some public responsibility (jury duty, conscription, ... )
* Having to show up regularly in the country (not just the embassy) to "keep your papers in order".
* Having either country turn isolationist and making up some law stating that they will henceforth only allow one citizenship and the hastily written law stipulates that the default is whatever one obtained last.
* Countries abandoning dual taxation treaties making you now effectively pay full tax in two countries.
* Regretting your choice but now finding yourself owing a substantial exit-tax.

While I haven't detected anything eminent, I have seen some op-eds from nationalist politicians about getting rid of the dual option, "because terrorists". Duals comprise a fairly small minority and the majority in a modern democracy doesn't tend to think twice before minorities get thrown under the bus.

Did
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Did » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:58 am

@jacob I guess it depends on the country. I'm working towards my Irish citizenship. The benefits would far outway any sort of risk. And I'm confident that should anything sort of silly happen I could just let my Irish citizenship go any remain an Aussie.

What is it someone said once, if the worst does happen I will just find myself a job like the rest of you.....

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:37 pm

jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
Anyone worried about "what could possibly go wrong" with these dual citizenship arrangements?

Examples:

* Ending up in a situation that requires diplomatic intervention and having each country trying to wash its hands saying it's the responsibility of the other country? (hostage situation, sea wreck, ...)
As of now, the US does not "officially" know that we hold citizenship with Italy. It could theoretically be an issue if we were to, say, enter Iran on Italian passports for the purposes of a cycle tour, then have problems because of our US passports. It has happened.
jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
* Getting drafted or otherwise fined for not providing some public responsibility (jury duty, conscription, ... )
This is a common problem for young Israelis. We're too old for conscription and jury duty is excused if you are out of the country. Definitely should be a consideration for young people.
jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
* Having to show up regularly in the country (not just the embassy) to "keep your papers in order".
One of the things I've learned from my Mexican connections is that if someone encounters a problem like this then someone else has figured out a workaround and offer it to others for a fee. There are few problems that a Limited Power of Attorney and a few dollars cannot solve from afar.

jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
* Having either country turn isolationist and making up some law stating that they will henceforth only allow one citizenship and the hastily written law stipulates that the default is whatever one obtained last.
Mexico didn't allow dual citizenship for a while. Back then a family member wanted to inherit property in Mexico so they had to officially renounce US citizenship to do so. Right after the transactions completed, they reapplied for US citizenship. Sounds crazy but is not uncommon.

Regarding last-obtained citizenship being the one that sticks.... I have a friend (super gringa, güera, zero Spanish) who fell in love with a Mexican-American guy. They got married and learned after the fact that there was an issue with his citizenship. This is not unusual with those who were brought across as kids. INS told them he would have to leave the country and re-apply for citizenship after several years. So, super-Gringa moved to Tijuana with hubby and crossed the border each morning for work. They had kids and began to see the advantages of living in TJ. Better schools, albeit private. Everything is way less expensive. True bi-national kids. The whole shebang. Then his case came up for review with INS and he was granted a green-card, which meant that they had no choice but to live in the US. Suddenly that prospect was not as attractive as it once was and they were sad about what they'd be loosing.

Force me to live in Italy and I will carve out a good life there. Force me to live in Mexico and I will somehow do the same. Force me to live in Chicago and.... eh... I'll try my best and probably succeed. It's a skill we've been practicing for years.
jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
* Countries abandoning dual taxation treaties making you now effectively pay full tax in two countries.
Always possible. Strategic renunciation. Change investments or income sources to minimize the consequences, or find a loophole. As the world gets more interdependent, there are more people who would be affected. Big fish are usually motivated to keep this from happening but if it does, they are motivated to find ways around it. If possible, follow their example.
jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
* Regretting your choice but now finding yourself owing a substantial exit-tax.
Don't over commit to the new place in the form of property or transfers of wealth.
jacob wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:27 am
While I haven't detected anything eminent, I have seen some op-eds from nationalist politicians about getting rid of the dual option, "because terrorists". Duals comprise a fairly small minority and the majority in a modern democracy doesn't tend to think twice before minorities get thrown under the bus.
Also possible. Renounce the less useful of the two?

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