Cheapest Source of Protein (Bodybuilding, Paleo)

[Ego]

I find this very interested. This forum naturally attracts those who go to extremes and plan ahead. We are interested in taking actions today that will pay off in a big way in the future....extreme saving to produce an extremely early retirement. Of course, the concept of what is "extreme" is determined in contrast to the "average".
Evidence suggest that high-meat diets are a Faustian bargain. In financial terms they seem to be similar to an investment with a fast return but an extremely high risk of future loss. While they almost certainly produce muscle fast (I believe the decrease in acne is a result of removing dairy) they are very highly correlated with cardiovascular disease and cancer death.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 162746.htm
The average person has become very comfortable with short-term thinking, where immediate gratification is more important than the long-term consequences. But there are several thoughtful, intelligent people here who use this type of diet. I have to assume they have considered the long-term consequences and know something that I do not. I wonder what that is.

[Felix]

@Ego: This notion has grown in the 70s based on a faked study and pushed by a government committee. There's nothing wrong with meat or animal fat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4
You may want to read Good Calories, Bad Calories for the details.

[jzt83]

I wonder what the mortality rate of people who mostly eat unprocessed organic free-range meats cooked at low heat? I think the increased cancer risk stems from the nitrates in processed meats and meats cooked at high heats.

[Ego]

Felix, thank you for posting that video. I watched it twice because I thought maybe I missed something. They didn't mention meat at all. It did mention processed oils and wheat which I agree can be bad for us.
When you said "faked study" from the 1970s what did you mean? The study I linked to above was actually an analysis of two very large epidemiological studies of human nutrition, one of which was begun in the 1970s.
How was it faked? Why?

[Ego]

@jzt83, I wonder what the mortality rate of people who mostly eat unprocessed organic free-range meats cooked at low heat? I think the increased cancer risk stems from the nitrates in processed meats and meats cooked at high heats.
That's a very good point. We were in the middle of nowhere in Southern Argentina a while ago and were able to get steaks from cattle that roamed freely in massive fields. It was the best steak I've ever eaten. The flavor was very different than what I had become used to at home. It made me really question the meat we were getting at home. Why is the taste so different?

[jennypenny]

I'm a big believer in low carb/paleo diets for most people, but I do think the quality of the food is just as important as the type. When people criticize low carb diets, they usually point to mediterranean diets. But don't most people in Italy make their own pasta? I would think that's much healthier than me opening a box of pasta (full of additives and preservatives) that's been on a shelf for 6 months. Plus they're usually consuming it with seafood of some sort or fresh olive oil. I think fresh food is best regardless of diet.
I also don't think the paleo diet is best for everyone. We have 5 people in my house on 3 different diets. I think everyone's needs are different and they change as you age. Ego, search for Gary Taubes for some reliable info on paleo. (not to convince you, just for enlightenment)

[Chad]

I doubt most healthy Italians use pasta as the main dish like all of our (US) pseudo "authentic" Italian restaurants do here. The amount is probably the main factor.

[Felix]

@Ego: The reference was to Ancel Keys' 6 countries study, which was the basis for the idea that saturated fat (and by that implication animal fat) is bad for us.
A copy of Gary Taubes' article in Science can be found here:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/taubes.html
Ever since that time there has been held the notion that meat is somehow unhealthy and there have been attempts at proving it for decades. It can be traced down to that study.
However, the most that has been established are weak correlations between meat intake and disease, not causal links. The study your article references to is a good example "Red Meat Consumption Linked to Increased Risk of Total, Cardiovascular, and Cancer Mortality". It says "linked to" and "associated". Well, people who stick to a meat-heavy diet usually also do less health-related effort in general, so it is hard to tell whether this correlation is based on meat or other cofounding factors.

Given that several studies show correlations between high meat, cholesterol and fat intake and *low* risk of heart disease (MRFIT or the Framingham Study), this casts quite some doubt on the validity of the hypothesis. And this is all this is. All you can get from epidemiological studies are suggestions of hypotheses, statistical links. People with less hair have higher rates of diabetes, but this doesn't mean that hair loss causes diabetes. However, this is what many articles in this regard suggest.
Here are some links to recent reviews of the scientific literature on the subject.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/science
Also, please note that the article mentions a link mostly between *processed* meat and a rise in health risks.

The meat/animal food intake of people on a paleo diet usually revolves around unprocessed, often organic meat for which even less of a case can be made. It is also dangerous that in many studies they lump together trans fats, for which there is actually some causal chain between intake and disease and saturated fats in general for which there is no such chain, again clouding the data.
If you're really interested, I refer you to Taubes, Ravnskoff and Colpo, who have each written very good books on that subject.

[jennypenny]

Since this thread first made the rounds, I've had to give up soy, gluten, nuts, and shellfish. Traditional meats have also gotten pretty expensive. I find I'm mostly eating eggs and tuna and supplementing with protein shakes. Any suggestions for cheaper protein ideas? I'm concerned with the amount of tuna I'm eating. I'm trying to learn how to make more cheeses. I found a farm that does free range chicken and beef near me, but it's pricey so I don't know if it's worth it.

[workathome]

I'd eat oatmeal with breakfast every day. I pay for the Gluten-free variety, but it is much more expensive. You may need to see if you react to normal oatmeal, or organic varieties, to see if your system can tolerate the small amounts from equipment also grinding wheat. It is protein rich though. Rice and beans for lunch, with a bit of pork or bacon mixed in for flavoring (traditional South American dishes). Dinner would be your most expensive if you want an Omlet or a stew with more meat proteins.

[SkaraBrae]

What counts as "the cheapest source of protein" depends very much on what your regular meat prices are, how much of a stickler you are for grass fed/pasture raised, and how you feel about soaked grains.

At the "must be wild/organic/free range/local/sustainable" yuppie end of the conventionally frugal spectrum, the cheapest you're going to get is buying a quarter/half/whole animal. (People usually do this with cows, but you can do it with goats, pigs, lamb, etc. too.) Best bet is usually to find a supplier at the farmer's market and start asking them about bulk/wholesale pricing. You need a deep freeze for this, but, where I live, this can net you $30/lb cuts of beef for $4-$4.50/lb. Similarly, if you know where to go and who to ask, you can get organic free range whole chicken for $2/lb -- normally the absolute best price you'd find here is about $4.50/lb from the farmer.

If you can trap/snare that's very cheap. I don't know about the costs involved with hunting but I'd imagine it's one of those things that can swing either way (you could make it spendy or thrifty depending on how you do it).

In North America, offal is also usually cheaper than muscle meat because it's not a popular cut. You will probably have to go to a butcher or market to find it, as very few supermarkets stock it (at least in North America -- it doesn't sell well). They probably won't have it on display. If you buy a half or whole animal from the butcher, you will usually get it for free here. It is very nutritious (if you trust the source of the animal, anyway). I'm not sure how Korea is, but I'd start by finding butchers and market vendors there and asking them about availability and pricing. Some cuisines consider organ meats to be delicacies and it may actually be more expensive than some cuts of regular meat.

Also don't overlook bones for broth. Those are usually tossed in free by North American butchers too when you buy bulk. This is more fat and nutrition than protein, but bears mention.

There are also "unusual" (to North American palate) protein sources like insects (ants, grasshoppers, etc.) and arachnids (tarantulas and so on), and other types of rodent, pest, or wild meat (squirrel, rat, guinea pig, snake, etc. around the world and roadkill in North America). I have no experiences with these and no idea what cost or effort might be involved, nor how to prepare them.

Sadly, there is no substitute for the somewhat tedious work of simply pricing out the per-serving costs of the various types of protein available to you (while still taking into consideration the various micronutrients you'll need): if you are near the coast, seasonal fish and some seafood will likely be much cheaper than beef -- even a whole cow's worth of discounted beef. On the prairies, not so much. Eggs are usually pretty cheap no matter where you live - but they may not be chicken eggs. Sprouted grains are cheapest of all, but not everyone wants to/can go that route. A lot depends on what is subsidized where you live. The cheapest meat is that you grow/catch yourself, but you do need to factor in the cost of raising/feeding/butchering it and the time involved to see if it's worth your while.

[thebbqguy]

I would suggest looking into raising rabbits for meat, if you live in a area that would allow that possibility. It's very healthy and they reproduce quickly. You know...like rabbits

"Rabbit meat contains 20.8% while turkey follows with 20.1% and chicken with 20%. Medium-fat veal has 18.0% and a good grade of beef comes in at only 16.3%. A medium-fat lamb contains 15.7% and medium- fat pork slides in last at only 11.9% of protein per pound."

"Domestically produced rabbit meat contains less fat than other meats. Again, beginning with the rabbit we see only 10.2% fat per pound compared with chicken at 11.0%, turkey at 20.2%, veal at 14.0%, good beef at 28.0%, lamb comes in at 27.7% and once again pork has a whopping 45.0% fat per pound."

Source: http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/102 ... bbit_meat/

[George the original one]

thebbqguy beat me to the punch... I was thinking you have enough room to raise rabbits in your backyard, jenny. Now whether your zoning allows you to keep as many as you'd need to feed your horde is another matter.

[workathome]

But who could hurt those pretty little wabbits :'(

[Felix]

[susswein]

Or what about guinea pigs? They're a common meat source in the andes, called Cuy.

[jennypenny]

I can raise rabbits, chickens and pheasants here. I worry that my Pits and the resident fox would get more protein out of that arrangement than I would . I'm not sure my kids are ready to raise anything for the table yet, although DS's friend traps squirrels and things and cooks them. The ideal would be keeping chickens for eggs and goats for milk and cheese, but I'm not allowed to keep goats.

I think a better approach for now might be buying whole meat for our Sunday dinner (like a whole turkey) and then finding ways to use the entire bird for our meat for the rest of the week, and supplement that with non-meat proteins.