I tend to keep the books i read in a good shape. For that one i will let them do the plastification, as they tend to do a better job in doing so.
Where's the ERE Book?!?
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BeyondtheWrap
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jacob
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If you buy the paper book, read it, then sell it, you will probably have spent less than the cost of the e-book (which you can't sell). The paper book can be shared and read by others, the e-book can not. Once the paper book is printed, it takes no energy anymore. (Also, books are carbon sinks 
).
That said, there will be (at least) a kindle version, which is electronic. I'll see if I can get it onto other devices as well. Don't worry; you don't have to actually buy a kindle. You can dwl a free reader for PCs, macs, iPhones, etc.
What you'll never see is a PDF version (unless it's a pirated copy).
).That said, there will be (at least) a kindle version, which is electronic. I'll see if I can get it onto other devices as well. Don't worry; you don't have to actually buy a kindle. You can dwl a free reader for PCs, macs, iPhones, etc.
What you'll never see is a PDF version (unless it's a pirated copy).
re: Kindle. You can actually share Kindle books, for better or worse (for you, Jacob). a Kindle account's contents can be shared across six devices total, so one can pool resources with other Kindle/Kindle app-reading people. The drawback is that if you highlight or take notes, everybody has to see them.
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RobBennett
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For what it's worth, I think you did the right thing by self-publishing, Jacob.
My belief is that the only time it is worth dealing with publishers is when they come to you. If your book catches on on the internet and they come to you for a deal, then it could be worth working with them to get broader distribution. Only in those circumstances would they pay you enough to make it worth your while to accept their strings. And, if they come to you, they will not insist on the changes in the book that would likely ruin it if they tried to assess it before it had proven itself.
I have a self-published book on saving (Passion Saving: The Path to Plentiful Free Time and Soul-Satisfying Work). As my first step in getting a publisher, I sent a draft proposal (the document that goes to the publisher to get them interested in looking at the book) to a Proposal Doctor). The changes she said were needed would have made the book like 20 others already on the market. So what would the point be of doing all the work?
The only point of going to the work of writing a book is to get something out there that is not today out there. And my sense is that publishers are not interested in even looking at anything that has not already proven itself.
I look forward to seeing your book.
Rob
My belief is that the only time it is worth dealing with publishers is when they come to you. If your book catches on on the internet and they come to you for a deal, then it could be worth working with them to get broader distribution. Only in those circumstances would they pay you enough to make it worth your while to accept their strings. And, if they come to you, they will not insist on the changes in the book that would likely ruin it if they tried to assess it before it had proven itself.
I have a self-published book on saving (Passion Saving: The Path to Plentiful Free Time and Soul-Satisfying Work). As my first step in getting a publisher, I sent a draft proposal (the document that goes to the publisher to get them interested in looking at the book) to a Proposal Doctor). The changes she said were needed would have made the book like 20 others already on the market. So what would the point be of doing all the work?
The only point of going to the work of writing a book is to get something out there that is not today out there. And my sense is that publishers are not interested in even looking at anything that has not already proven itself.
I look forward to seeing your book.
Rob
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jacob
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@Rob - I think you're absolutely correct. Actually someone working for a publisher came to me, albeit not in an official capacity, which is what got me started on writing the book in the first place.
Big publishers are mainly into making blockbusters and hits, maybe to justify their large fixed costs. I have come to realize that the book industry is very much like the music industry in that regard... and book#1 is more of an "indie"-work.
It is (I hope) strongly appealing to a small fraction of the population rather than mildly appealing to a large fraction of the population. However, say, it's strongly appealing to 1% of the US population. That's still 3 million people. However, the odds of reaching an unanimously "positive" on an editorial board of five editors is 1% to the 5h power or practically zero.
Okay, all I gotta do now is to reach those 3 millions
Big publishers are mainly into making blockbusters and hits, maybe to justify their large fixed costs. I have come to realize that the book industry is very much like the music industry in that regard... and book#1 is more of an "indie"-work.
It is (I hope) strongly appealing to a small fraction of the population rather than mildly appealing to a large fraction of the population. However, say, it's strongly appealing to 1% of the US population. That's still 3 million people. However, the odds of reaching an unanimously "positive" on an editorial board of five editors is 1% to the 5h power or practically zero.
Okay, all I gotta do now is to reach those 3 millions
Tim Ferriss tweets:
"Seth Godin to no longer publish traditional books: http://su.pr/2r44CC Expect an exodus of writers to follow. I'll be curious to watch it."
"Seth Godin to no longer publish traditional books: http://su.pr/2r44CC Expect an exodus of writers to follow. I'll be curious to watch it."
Ok, I wasn't sure whether to start a new topic, but what about ERE Seminar/Workshops to Convert?
I (sorta) hate to say this, but if you got 100 people to pay $200 for a 2hr seminar on ERE and all it's awesomeness, you could cash out.
Some people might get the message right away, some might have questions, others maybe get nothing out of it or think it isn't for them, but maybe take 1 or 2 ideas (like, say, Dogs of the Dow), and go from there.
After hotel costs, I bet you clear a good amount. When the book comes out, you could hand out copies of your book too, which will spread itself thru word of mouth or persons, and then further spread to having more people at your gigs.
The average hourly rate for contracting is $100/hr for professionals. That's what I intend to charge when I go independent and is starting to get closer to half what our industry charges (currently I think it is $150/hr min 3 hrs for most)
I (sorta) hate to say this, but if you got 100 people to pay $200 for a 2hr seminar on ERE and all it's awesomeness, you could cash out.
Some people might get the message right away, some might have questions, others maybe get nothing out of it or think it isn't for them, but maybe take 1 or 2 ideas (like, say, Dogs of the Dow), and go from there.
After hotel costs, I bet you clear a good amount. When the book comes out, you could hand out copies of your book too, which will spread itself thru word of mouth or persons, and then further spread to having more people at your gigs.
The average hourly rate for contracting is $100/hr for professionals. That's what I intend to charge when I go independent and is starting to get closer to half what our industry charges (currently I think it is $150/hr min 3 hrs for most)
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jacob
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It sounds tempting, but when I queried for potential book prices, only a minority were willing to pay more than $20. Seeing that my audience is not the audience that would happily spend $100+ for an "informational kit"---or whatever pdf and mp3 files are called these days---with a quarter of the content, would I be able to get $200 for a 2 hour lecture? From the little data I have to go on, having previously asked about the interest in workshops, the price of admission I could charge and still have people show up seems closer to $5. Conversely, people with loose money would likely be looking for quick and easy automated systems to make them rich---reducing their spending by 75% would likely turn them off faster than they can finish reading a paragraph.
I think it would work to be honest, but I sometimes am a super-optimist.
At the very least, I look at examples all around that bilk people with no info or know nothing. Especially w/ dieting and exercise.
$200 an hr is reasonable, I guess $100 could be reasonable too, depends on the hotel rates for a room. That is some serious cash!
I look at it from the perpective that the info will "Change your life". "A true opportunity to take care of yourself and enjoy life". "The way out from the rat race". "breaking the chains of desk slavery and doing what you want to do in 5 years time!"
Etc etc.
You wouldn't be guaranteeing anything. Even if 20 people showed up, that's 2k (or 4k). It's all in the presentation. You wouldn't be preaching to those who know ERE right now, it'd be to those who don't know. The few that could be gleaned off TSD or GRS, etc, but need that push, that inspiration, that "ah-ha!" moment to slap them in the face and make them give up the daily starbux and steak dinners and instead bring their own coffee and eat chicken (or at least steak once a week).
And, at least you didn't say no right off the bat either... I thought you might say you didn't want to "cash out".
At the very least, I look at examples all around that bilk people with no info or know nothing. Especially w/ dieting and exercise.
$200 an hr is reasonable, I guess $100 could be reasonable too, depends on the hotel rates for a room. That is some serious cash!
I look at it from the perpective that the info will "Change your life". "A true opportunity to take care of yourself and enjoy life". "The way out from the rat race". "breaking the chains of desk slavery and doing what you want to do in 5 years time!"
Etc etc.
You wouldn't be guaranteeing anything. Even if 20 people showed up, that's 2k (or 4k). It's all in the presentation. You wouldn't be preaching to those who know ERE right now, it'd be to those who don't know. The few that could be gleaned off TSD or GRS, etc, but need that push, that inspiration, that "ah-ha!" moment to slap them in the face and make them give up the daily starbux and steak dinners and instead bring their own coffee and eat chicken (or at least steak once a week).
And, at least you didn't say no right off the bat either... I thought you might say you didn't want to "cash out".
@Q excuse my contrariness, but charging a few hundred dollars a head for an ERE seminar strikes me as diametrically opposed to the spirit of ERE. the information is invaluable, but to be consistent Jacob would have to recommend in such a seminar, "And don't ever give hundreds of dollars to someone who claims to offer you wisdom... like you just did."
I think Jacob's ideas have wider appeal than he thinks, and I think the book (I am sitting on the manuscript as I write this /irony) has the power to change people's lives in a very positive way--and not just scientists and programmers and INTJs, either. Therefore, I think the book is where the potential financial payoff is. To erect a superfluous gate to the ideas via disingenuous "information products" or "newsletters" would hurt his and the blog's credibility as well, in my opinion.
Part of the appeal of ERE to me is not spending one's time on activities for the purpose of generating income, but rather doing what you love to do, and if it happens to also generate income, great. All the seminars I've ever seen (never paid for one)--dating gurus, MLM (ugh), new age, RE schemes--are formulized to extract additional money from the audience and about as far from genuine human communication as you can get. These are people motivated (IMO) only by financial gain; there is no passion there.
That said, Jacob does have a deep interest in the subject, and ERE does seem like a book tour/TED/Commonwealth Club-appropriate topic. It has predecessors (Walden...) and is at the same time cutting-edge, or at least unique enough and scientific enough to attract this sort of audience. I'm thinking especially of the environmental, world travel and lifehacking (I know) angles.
I think Jacob's ideas have wider appeal than he thinks, and I think the book (I am sitting on the manuscript as I write this /irony) has the power to change people's lives in a very positive way--and not just scientists and programmers and INTJs, either. Therefore, I think the book is where the potential financial payoff is. To erect a superfluous gate to the ideas via disingenuous "information products" or "newsletters" would hurt his and the blog's credibility as well, in my opinion.
Part of the appeal of ERE to me is not spending one's time on activities for the purpose of generating income, but rather doing what you love to do, and if it happens to also generate income, great. All the seminars I've ever seen (never paid for one)--dating gurus, MLM (ugh), new age, RE schemes--are formulized to extract additional money from the audience and about as far from genuine human communication as you can get. These are people motivated (IMO) only by financial gain; there is no passion there.
That said, Jacob does have a deep interest in the subject, and ERE does seem like a book tour/TED/Commonwealth Club-appropriate topic. It has predecessors (Walden...) and is at the same time cutting-edge, or at least unique enough and scientific enough to attract this sort of audience. I'm thinking especially of the environmental, world travel and lifehacking (I know) angles.
"And don't ever give hundreds of dollars to someone who claims to offer you wisdom... like you just did."
That made me laugh pretty good.
No, I understand what you are saying.
I don't advocate making people attend a seminar to getting the book. I think the seminar invites more people into the fold using traditional pull in methods.
In the same manner as YMOYL did (which were free tho I think), ERE would create it's own movement, like it already has with the forum. It's been nearly a month now I think and we post back and forth every day!
I don't think charging is a bad thing, or trampling on the spirit of ERE. If anything, charging covers the cost of the hotel room and the profit goes to one of the many ideas already floated in the forums. It could almost be ERE Non-Profit.
...and there's a board seat too
That made me laugh pretty good.
No, I understand what you are saying.
I don't advocate making people attend a seminar to getting the book. I think the seminar invites more people into the fold using traditional pull in methods.
In the same manner as YMOYL did (which were free tho I think), ERE would create it's own movement, like it already has with the forum. It's been nearly a month now I think and we post back and forth every day!
I don't think charging is a bad thing, or trampling on the spirit of ERE. If anything, charging covers the cost of the hotel room and the profit goes to one of the many ideas already floated in the forums. It could almost be ERE Non-Profit.
...and there's a board seat too
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RobBennett
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It's a mistake to assume too much logic on the choices made about this sort of thing. There are lots of people who will not pay $20 for a book who will happily pay $200 for a seminar and who will recommend it to all their friends. Lots of people just don't like books or don't value them or whatever. They are still good people who would like to do good things with their lives. You're helping them if you get good information to them regardless of whether they pay $20 or $200 or $2,000.
I personally like to see the higher price points. I am biased, of course, because I too am trying to make money from information products in the same general area. But I view it as a good guys v. bad guys thing. If the good guys don't play to win, the bad guys (people advocating bad or weak ideas) win. The good guys position themselves to win when they earn high fees. The profits you make from a seminar can be used for marketing so that you get a growth cycle going. Earning a few bucks on a book doesn't do that.
There are some who question the ethics of charging too much for information products. I do not. I believe we will have more good information products when good information products bring in bigger profits. Where I am tough on ethics is re the integrity of the ideas being put forth. Really good ideas take a long time to develop. Those who put in the time and effort merit a big payoff, in my assessment.
I hope you become a multi-millionaire, Jacob. And I hope lots of others learn by listening to your stuff and that they take it in new directions and that they become multi-millionaires too. My view is that, the more millionaires we create (so long as the ideas have integrity), the better for everyone concerned.
Rob
I personally like to see the higher price points. I am biased, of course, because I too am trying to make money from information products in the same general area. But I view it as a good guys v. bad guys thing. If the good guys don't play to win, the bad guys (people advocating bad or weak ideas) win. The good guys position themselves to win when they earn high fees. The profits you make from a seminar can be used for marketing so that you get a growth cycle going. Earning a few bucks on a book doesn't do that.
There are some who question the ethics of charging too much for information products. I do not. I believe we will have more good information products when good information products bring in bigger profits. Where I am tough on ethics is re the integrity of the ideas being put forth. Really good ideas take a long time to develop. Those who put in the time and effort merit a big payoff, in my assessment.
I hope you become a multi-millionaire, Jacob. And I hope lots of others learn by listening to your stuff and that they take it in new directions and that they become multi-millionaires too. My view is that, the more millionaires we create (so long as the ideas have integrity), the better for everyone concerned.
Rob