One of the things I've learned over the years is that the true lesson one might learn from others may be very different than the lesson they personally articulate. Successful people can still be morons and give themselves too much credit, and "failures" may have just been unlucky and are too hard on themselves. I find it better to listen to what they have to say but draw my own conclusions.It seems to me, the people who have failed (maybe not the right word) then made changes to overcome their failure are different from those who have never failed in the first place. There are times when the two may offer similar advice, but sometimes the advice varies wildly. It's not really a problem until the advice contradicts.
Learning from failure vs learning from success
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
I wrote one response, then another, then realized the deeper issue confusing me is how the original question was framed:
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
We were just talking about this at lunch and Mrs. Ego made a similar point. She said we should not necessarily follow a person's advice, we should follow (or not) their example.Tyler9000 wrote:I wrote one response, then another, then realized the deeper issue confusing me is how the original question was framed:
One of the things I've learned over the years is that the true lesson one might learn from others may be very different than the lesson they personally articulate. Successful people can still be morons and give themselves too much credit, and "failures" may have just been unlucky and are too hard on themselves. I find it better to listen to what they have to say but draw my own conclusions.It seems to me, the people who have failed (maybe not the right word) then made changes to overcome their failure are different from those who have never failed in the first place. There are times when the two may offer similar advice, but sometimes the advice varies wildly. It's not really a problem until the advice contradicts.
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
even the example could be useless or have negative impact. see the example of "how to become rich like Trump - first, take out $1M loan". this advice is actually WORSE than "take out $1M loan from your father", because it might actually happen, and the individual might end up in debt.
what's to be learned from, say, brute not becoming an alcoholic? is the trick to be born with different taste buds where alcohol tastes disturbing?
what's to be learned from, say, brute not becoming an alcoholic? is the trick to be born with different taste buds where alcohol tastes disturbing?
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
I babble all over the spectrum, but I meant to convey that I still think pre-nups are for weenies, even though I have been divorced myself and have heard a million marriage and divorce horror stories, and I am currently in a grouchy old lady mood. Kind of like going through life continually wearing a bike helmet and a condom. Hold hands. 1-2-3, say a prayer or mantra, JUMP!!! I do sometimes worry that saving too much money is making some of the members of this forum old before their time.Ego said: The war stories from those who fell into the pit scare people away from taking any risk at all. Success stories (I would hope) encourage people to take the calculated risk.
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
Yes! Loss aversion is a strong motivator.7Wannabe5 wrote: I do sometimes worry that saving too much money is making some of the members of this forum old before their time.
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Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
I still don't see why we're allowed only one data point (e.g. look at a single person's example), but even if that is the case, it's still possible to subject this one data point or example them to the standard list of fallacies and biases. Those lists having specifically been created as a heuristic that's supposed to apply to human living so they do somewhat derive from additional human experience.
Example of outcome bias, bandwagon effect, pseudocertainty effect, peak-end rule, over-generalization, and a few others.
http://www.businessinsider.com/im-worth ... rly-2016-8
Example of outcome bias, bandwagon effect, pseudocertainty effect, peak-end rule, over-generalization, and a few others.
http://www.businessinsider.com/im-worth ... rly-2016-8
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
Learn from the results and the story. Success and failure depends on people's narrative and the time frame.
http://www.rainbowbody.com/newarticles/farmerson.htm
http://www.rainbowbody.com/newarticles/farmerson.htm
Re: Learning from failure vs learning from success
Right. One odd pattern that I have noted in my career of dating many middle-aged men is that it is often the case that those who had recently crashed and burned seemed the most vital. They were more likely to be exercising, and learning and trying new things. I swear to the Goddess, that it almost started to seem to me that there was some sort of strong correlation between being relatively broke or recently broken in some manner and reduction of paunch size. So, I started trying to think about why some people need to crash in order to get energized and other people are better able to stay energized no matter what level they have securely attained. There is something about speed of acceleration towards purpose in life that we humans can't help but interpret as youthful energy.7Wannabe5 wrote:
I do sometimes worry that saving too much money is making some of the members of this forum old before their time.
Ego said: Yes! Loss aversion is a strong motivator.
Also, my 76 year old friend who has more money than he can possibly spend, and is in excellent shape for his age (does headstands, no paunch), recently said to me "When you are 14 all that matters is love, then you go through life working and striving, but when you are my age you find yourself back at all that matters is love."
Of course, grain of salt, since the main reason why ENTP me joined this forum is that I fret about being too much of an optimistic, impulsive sprinter. I quit my full-time corporate job with $8000 in the bank, and I did eventually experience some failure and suffering. However, I would say that the main reason why I suffered and failed was due to a rigid inability to re-define my ego-identity. I left the world of corporate employment, but I retained the cultural identification with profession. It took me a number of years to transform from rare book dealer to entrepreneur to self-employed-slacker to whatever it is I am not very tightly identifying myself as these-a-days, and it wasn't money in the bank that made the difference in my feeling of security. More like it is simply impossible to fail as a Jill-of-Any-and-All-Trades-Including-Frugality until/unless you die while still doing it.-lol. OTOH, I think if I can continue to struggle to keep myself focused on goals 7 years (infinity to me)away, then others may benefit by shortening up or redefining at least some of their cycles. Dunno.