MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

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Ego
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MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Ego »

http://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duc ... _grit.html

Here is the Penn Resiliency Lab's Grit Scale (pdf): https://upenn.app.box.com/12itemgrit

The determination to achieve ERE might require grit. I could also imaging situations where grit for the wrong thing could be problematic.

Chad
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Chad »

Thanks for that. It's something I seem to inherently know, but forget...A LOT. It's why the people who are the best athletes and in the best shape don't always get through BUD/S and become a SEAL. Those with a high pain tolerance or "grit" in this instance are the ones that make it.
Ego wrote: The determination to achieve ERE might require grit. I could also imaging situations where grit for the wrong thing could be problematic.
Of course, anything can be made good or evil.

Dragline
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Dragline »

Well, those are definitely the kind of people I would want on my team/project. And I would hazard to guess a good part of what makes the U.S. different from other places to the extent that it is. But I'd be curious to see how first-generation immigrants rate on the grit scale as compared with the general populace.

sshawnn
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by sshawnn »

Thanks Ego, excellent TED talk.

As soon as Ms. Duckworth got into her talk, my mind raced ahead to, "How do you build grit?" Kudos to her for saying she did not know! I would assume like most other attributes, grit is a combination of innate and learned behaviors coupled with individual exposure and just as she alludes to with growth mindset, believing that it can be done.

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Ego
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Ego »

Psychology has been taking a beating lately, for good reason. The University of Pennsylvania is trying to change that. Marty Seligman shifted the focus from fixing the sick to studying those who are supremely healthy. The movement is now know by the unfortunate(?) name Positive Psychology. Duckworth is one of the researchers in his department.

He's got a lab studying resiliency. They plan to publish their curriculum online for free here: http://www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu/prpsum.htm
Another lab is studying post-traumatic-growth in the military. PTSD is what everyone talks about as if it is a natural extension.... you experience trauma, then you go through PTSD. But for most healthy people this is not the case. Trauma can be growth-inducing. He is focusing on how and why that is.

There are some really good resources here: http://www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu/publications.htm

It's funny that you guys hit on my strategy for building grit by association. I hang out with a few seals and spend a lot of time working with (legal and illegal) immigrants. The two have a lot in common. For one, they don't tolerate weakness and have little time for excuses. They both believe in the power of shutting-up, putting your head down and getting the job done. This morning I was talking with a woman who got in line at 3:15am and waited two hours to cross the border so that she could earn a little money selling used clothing. I don't know how much she makes but it can't be a lot. And she works hard. Yet she is always positive, outgoing, friendly and kind. She makes me want to be more like her. I don't know if it is possible to acquire grit by association, but I sure hope I can. When I asked one of my seal buddies about hell week he shrugged and said, "Meh, wasn't that hard."

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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by jacob »

Is grit discovered or created? That's the question.

I spent my pre- and early teens (from age 7-14) on the swim team training 6 evenings per week. I remember there was a lot of talk about how swimmers went on to succeed in life due to qualities that may be described as grit, persistence, ...

My parents tried to imbue me with a "work hard and never quit just because it sucks" attitude. As a result, I spent the last two years of my swim career hating it. However, it just might have built some "character".

I once attended a talk on supernova simulations(*) by a professor who were looking for students. The specific qualities he was looking for was: coding skill and _a high frustration tolerance_. Exactly those words. I knew several high GPA hotshots who dropped out of grad school because they lacked the frustration tolerance for research as opposed to solving textbook problems and passing exams.

(*) This is a problem that still has not been solved!

So insofar that grit can be created, I would suggest engaging in something hard which has [almost] full accountability and no room for excuses. Often this means competing with yourself or with nature doing something that has few random factors. This would develop the proper habits. I think habit is really what you're looking for. That combined with the kind of optimism that is based on the experience of eventual success if only one works long enough at it.

In that regard, I would almost say that grit is something that's built 'alone'. 'Alone' in the sense that 'ultimately we all die alone'. In other words, it's something that has to develop inside of you. Not by association with gritty peeps.

Chad
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Chad »

sshawnn wrote: As soon as Ms. Duckworth got into her talk, my mind raced ahead to, "How do you build grit?" Kudos to her for saying she did not know!
I thought the same thing. While, I enjoy the wild theory as much as any, it was impressive that she restrained herself.

Chad
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Chad »

jacob wrote: In that regard, I would almost say that grit is something that's built 'alone'. 'Alone' in the sense that 'ultimately we all die alone'. In other words, it's something that has to develop inside of you. Not by association with gritty peeps.
I think you are looking at this through an introvert lens. Yes, it can come from inside, but I think it can be from others or external stimulus, as well. I know some of the character/grit I developed was from inside of me during 2 & 3 a day practice sessions for football or when I would lay on the training table for 3 hours after a game before finally gathering enough energy to go home. But, I also know I learned some of that grit from others around me. Some of what I learned came from pure observation, some of it came from others not letting me fail, and some it came from me not letting others fail. It's the one reason I regret never going in the military.

Dragline
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Dragline »

You guys have just said a lot of things that have me nodding my head in agreement (you know "grit" is such an X-er ideal -- you might even posit that Liberty (active choice) + Personal Honor + Survival Skills = Grit.)

Re Ego's "grit by association", I think this idea illustrates a broader principle or "should do" in life. Who you spend time with matters and over time influences who and what you are and will become. Thus, just as its important to develop good health and financial habits, its important to "police" your associations to emphasize the positive ones and eliminate or minimize the negative ones. Your mother telling you not to hang out with those bad kids was actually pretty good advice for your further development.

Re jacob's question, the answer I think is "yes". Some individuals are naturally more "gritty" than others, but it can certainly be developed or grown through practice and habit. Your parents had the right idea, although maybe they should have let you give up the swimming the last couple years in favor of something else. Our solution with our kids has always been to say you have to finish the season, but you can do something else next season/year. But you have to pick some activity that requires some kind of practice, effort and performance. I think children (and many adults) need more "practice" being nervous and handling an adrenaline rush without freaking out, and in seeing long-term results from a consistent effort. Those things are hard to learn and appreciate without some hands-on experience.

sshawnn
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by sshawnn »

Dragline wrote: Re jacob's question, the answer I think is "yes". Some individuals are naturally more "gritty" than others, but it can certainly be developed or grown through practice and habit. Your parents had the right idea, although maybe they should have let you give up the swimming the last couple years in favor of something else. Our solution with our kids has always been to say you have to finish the season, but you can do something else next season/year. But you have to pick some activity that requires some kind of practice, effort and performance. I think children (and many adults) need more "practice" being nervous and handling an adrenaline rush without freaking out, and in seeing long-term results from a consistent effort. Those things are hard to learn and appreciate without some hands-on experience.

I agree with this Dragline but would add that the hands-on experience and the success and failures such activities provide lead to belief that it........, whatever "it" is, is possible.

Chad
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Chad »

Dragline wrote: Our solution with our kids has always been to say you have to finish the season, but you can do something else next season/year. But you have to pick some activity that requires some kind of practice, effort and performance. I think children (and many adults) need more "practice" being nervous and handling an adrenaline rush without freaking out, and in seeing long-term results from a consistent effort. Those things are hard to learn and appreciate without some hands-on experience.
This is what my parents did for me. Definitely a good step and helpful for me.

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Ego
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Re: MacArthur "Genius" Winner ..... Grit

Post by Ego »

Duckworth talked about Grit on Shankar Vedantam's podcast Hidden Brain today.

Episode 26: http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510308/hidden-brain


Interestingly, she said Dragline's line above about making his kids finish the season almost verbatim.

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