Anyone wants to take me hunting?

[jacob]

FIL recently "offered" me his old shotgun (a Remington 31) because I expressed an interest in hunting. Before I make it official (getting all the permits and taking possession), I would like to see if it's actually something I could get into.

Therefore I'm asking if any ERE hunters in the Illinois (or maybe one state over) would be willing to take me on a hunt so I could try it out. I figure mainly as an observer. A day or a weekend would be ideal, but I could potentially go for a week if required.

[workathome]

Depending on the details of the firearm, you may want to keep it simply as an "Alpha Strategy" item:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... 277594#PIC

[jacob]

@workathome - I doubt it's a collectible. If it isn't, the value is more around $300. The biggest issue seems that it's chambered for 2.5" shells which is no longer the standard. I found that it's still possible to buy them though.

@ffj/Toska - I should probably have been more specific in terms of hunting. Honestly, I don't really know. The idea appeals to me and I want to find out if reality matches. I think I would prefer minimal equipment so no waterfowl hunting requiring a collection of 50+ decoys and not buying an ATV either. However, I would be prepared to buy another gun but figured I could start with what I have. When I was a kid (growing up on a hobby farm) I spent a lot of time with a scoped air pellet gun (Diana RWS 34), so I'm not a total noob in terms of hitting what I aim at. A few years ago I went to a cabin in NV and they brought their entire armory and I got to shoot a bunch.. 30-06 rifle, AR15, Ruger .22, and various handguns. (I am a noob in terms of loading/cleaning/etc. real guns though.) This was mainly shooting beer cans on a post.

I've read a bunch of hunting books and magazines, but for this there's a limit to what can learned from reading. I get the impression that hunting is very complicated with licenses, permits, setting up night cameras, studying maps, documenting game... that it may involve stalking, sitting around for hours being eaten by bugs, learning how to operate a turkey call, shooting from weird positions (prone, sitting, in a tree..) or shooting at moving targets, etc.

It's a bit like sailing. I can read all the books in the world, take sailing classes, buy a boat, and then figure out whether I actually like sailing... Or I could just go out with someone who already knows how and just see "what it's like". I think the latter method is better. So that's what I'm looking for in terms of hunting. To observe. (I'm not actually looking to shoot an animal.)

[sshawnn]

Funny the timing of things sometimes....

My DS 11 son is spending the weekend with his cousins in West Ky. Just got a call that he scored a squirrel on his first squirrel hunt. With a 12g shotgun!

I am not a hunter. I could arrange for a family member to take you along on a hunt at the family farm (42261) or with a good friend of my on his personal hunting grounds (40045.) I think he was hunting turkeys with a bow and arrow this weekend.

[Chad]

I've read a bunch of hunting books and magazines, but for this there's a limit to what can learned from reading. I get the impression that hunting is very complicated with licenses, permits, setting up night cameras, studying maps, documenting game... that it may involve stalking, sitting around for hours being eaten by bugs, learning how to operate a turkey call, shooting from weird positions (prone, sitting, in a tree..) or shooting at moving targets, etc.

The vast majority of hunting is not complicated at all, outside of licenses and permits and that is really only complicated because it changes from state to state. In the majority of the Midwest, Northeast, and South, game is plentiful enough to not require any sophisticated stalking unless you enjoy that, purposefully handicap yourself by using a bow or some type of flintlock, or you are trophy hunting. Any idiot with just average hand-eye coordination can shoot a deer with a high powered scoped rifle.

If you are hunting deer, squirrel, or most ground based birds, it's rather easy. You get the appropriate weapon. Wait or walk through the woods , field, bushes, etc. It's usually better to hunt deer quiet, but for small game it's better to make noise if you don't have a dog, which is not required, but is nice for rabbits (Beagle) or waterfowl (Retriever).

Turkey and ducks require more work. Both need a call, and ducks/waterbirds need decoys.

Deer are probably your best bet for ERE. Lowest amount of hunting time and you can butcher them yourself if you have your own garage/yard.

Your 410/2.5 inch shotgun can be used for a lot of game, but isn't the best. You would need to be a really good shot to use it well, on anything but squirrel sized animals. Larger birds like quail get a little bit of armor from their feathers making a good shot more vital from a small shotgun. A turkey would require you to use a slug in a 410, which would require some skill and cunning.

It shouldn't take you more than a couple hunts to get the basics. Actually, I think the cleaning of the game has more tricks and techniques than hunting with modern day rifles and shotguns.

I would offer, but my parents farm is too far away and I don't hunt anymore. I do think everyone should do it once or twice, as it provides some valuable experience and life lessons. Killing something is definitely different than buying meat from the store.

[workathome]

I would offer, but my parents farm is too far away and I don't hunt anymore. I do think everyone should do it once or twice, as it provides some valuable experience and life lessons. Killing something is definitely different than buying meat from the store.

This made me think maybe Zuckerberg is a decent guy:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/2 ... 67675.html

[northman]

Accuratereloading.com
24hourcampfire.com

are two very good forums for hunting. You should read abit over there.


I would encourage you to buy a 22lr rifle and good optics. You can practice almost anywhere, have fun shooting, hunt small edible game ( squirls, rabbits, birds ).. which should be a part of the renaissance man.

CZ 452 American!! Get the trigger adjusted, its very easy. Rimfirecentral.com for that one. An option is to ugrade to a McMillan stock for a rifle that will last the rest of your life! Or keep the wooden stock..

Then some good optics with Parralax adjustment! Think european. With Talley rings.


------
If you think you ever will hunt bigger game.. Hogs are a pest in the US, usually means free meat and can be hunted in almost any state for free.

BRNO ZG-47, in 30-06, get a McMillan stock, have it pillar bedded. Alaska arms ring mounts. Quality 1,5-6x42 scope.. S&B is my favoritt.



The cost is up there! But I belive buy once, cry one. These are the best rifles for the money bar none, and would if I ever start over, these are what I would own.

I would encourage the 22lr rifle in any case! Even if not taking up hunting..

[jacob]

@ffj, Toska, sshawnn - Responded by PM.

@Chad, northman - Thanks for the info, that was very helpful. Would it be best to focus on state forests/national parks first? I've seen that several of the local national parks offer hunting. In terms of guns, I note that the CZ452 isn't made anymore (apparently replaced by the CZ455) and I can't find the BRNO ZG47 (online) except for a used listing? Are guns subject to fashion with new editions coming out all the time? Would it be better to buy new or used or does it not matter?

[Chad]

@Chad, northman - Thanks for the info, that was very helpful. Would it be best to focus on state forests/national parks first? I've seen that several of the local national parks offer hunting. In terms of guns, I note that the CZ452 isn't made anymore (apparently replaced by the CZ455) and I can't find the BRNO ZG47 (online) except for a used listing? Are guns subject to fashion with new editions coming out all the time? Would it be better to buy new or used or does it not matter?

Probably state forests. I'm unsure about national parks. This will probably be the hardest part of hunting for you...finding a location.

Guns do have certain fashion aspects or "updates" resulting in new models every so often. I don't see why a new or used gun would matter either way. Never had a gun break, so I don't think parts are an issue. Biggest criteria in my mind concerning buying a gun is the type of round used. You would want something common, though I'm not 100% sure what that is now. I was never a gun enthusiast. If it worked that was good enough for me.

[northman]

I would search for a used CZ 452, or maybe some dealer has one sitting new on the shelf.

The 452 action has been produced in almost the same way the last 30-40 years, before they decied to "improve" it a few years ago. Its the best bang for buck, unless you go up to a (older) Kimber, Cooper or Anschutz with a 54 action.

The 452 American is built like a quality rifle. Get one before its to late..


The BRNO was a rifle made in the 50s in Czechoslovakia, before the USSR invaded. Only some 20,000 where produced. It is a evolution of the Mauser M98, with bolt and safety made to be used with scopes, with a square bridge reciver machined for detachable rings. Its noted as the pinnacle of commercial Mauser M98 rifles. And, the M98 is the pinnacle of rifle design!

PS: when we are talking rifles, we mostly mean the rifle action. Everything else is the same, barrel, stock etc. Its how the action is produced, how it functions, gas handeling, feeding of cartridges, extraction, bedding surface etc etc.. everything after the M98 was made to cheapen the action.

The ZG-47 is increasing in price in the US, as very few where imported there. Most where sold in Scandinavia and Canada. Now people in the US pay a premium for them, since they also have discoverd them, but its worth it! I paid $1200 for mine, though I have seen them much cheaper over here. But we are only allowed to own 6 hunting rifles, so I cant stock up on them when they come along cheaply.

Here is a nice photo of one: http://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/arme/zg-47/?lang=en
and a custom one: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/printthr ... ype=thread

If you cant or wont buy one, I would encourage you to look at an FN Supreme or Husqvarna 640.. made in the 40-50s, they are both made on the same good commercial Mauser action, made to be used with scope. These are usually cheaper, and of better quality then most rifles produced today! These rifles where made to last a lifetime, but look outdated...

Personaly I would also buy a McMillan stock.. as I want a fool proof rifle.

[JohnnyH]

Living in Chicago it's going to be hard to make hunting pay IMO. Unless you can take multiple animals per trip out of the city... If you've got land, or an acquaintance that will let you hunt theirs, hunting is great... If you're out on opening weekend when the hills are being combed by people driving F150s and drinking Bud-light it's pretty much a crap shoot... Roadless areas are much better, but require a lot more work.
That's my opinion as someone who hunts to feed [not entertain] myself. My ideal hunting is done from the porch. My ideal fishing from a trout line.

I'd get a decent used bow in the off-season. That will get you a head start on the gun crowd and another animal. Watch a few videos on gun safety on youtube, others around you will appreciate it... A class on this for an INTJ would be torture.

Outside of cost licenses are easy; just tell the sporting goods store employee what you're hunting and pay. Maxing out various licenses to get the most possible game does require some imagination. I know people that legally take a dozen large animals per year.

I am a minimalist hunter, outside of waders I don't really own any specialized gear, or [stupid, IMO] camo, and I do better than most... I've even duck hunted successfully with no decoys or calls (bring book . Pheasant hunting is pleasant... Hunting birds isn't really cost effective. Steel shot shotgun shells are expensive, so even when I shoot 100% it's close to grocery store price (but much healthier)... People do hunt deer with shotguns, but I imagine you must be very close, or very skilled.

On guns and fashion, I generally avoid new releases. More often then not they have problems and the "improvements" are just cost saving measures... I'm a fan of the classics. For a hunting rifle I'd recommend a Remington 700 in 308 or 270. Around Black Friday they're under $400 with workable 3x9 scope.

Guns are indeed great investments, IMO. Got my first gun 10 years ago for $250 and I could sell it today for $600 (9% annualized rate of return, not too shabby).

[Seneca]

Hunters/shooters always focus on the gun(s).

If you don't have any local offers, I'd suggest going to the in-person hunter's safety training class in your area.

http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/safety/Page ... afety.aspx

The class won't just be full of newbies, some of the people will be dads with kids, the instructors might be nice guys, etc. You'll need to take the class to get your hunting permit no matter what you choose to hunt, and it's a great opportunity to network and ask to "tag along".

Hunting can be as simple or complicated as you like it to be, don't worry about all that crazy stuff you were reading about.

[jacob]

I will almost surely not get a gun as long as we live in the City of Chicago due to the city's onerous permitting procedure (5 hour class (which is fine), $100 fee every three years (ARGH), and annual permit update on all guns (BLARGH)). Maybe a bow... hmm ..

In other news, we're looking to move slightly outside the CoC, maybe in 2014.

In related news, I've been kinda considering buying hunting/fishing/timberland as a way of sinking superfluous money into something other than overvalued equity, crazy gold, and no-interest bonds. Is this a good idea or just an expensive hobby?

[Chad]

I will almost surely not get a gun as long as we live in the City of Chicago due to the city's onerous permitting procedure (5 hour class (which is fine), $100 fee every three years (ARGH), and annual permit update on all guns (BLARGH)). Maybe a bow... hmm ..

In other news, we're looking to move slightly outside the CoC, maybe in 2014.

In related news, I've been kinda considering buying hunting/fishing/timberland as a way of sinking superfluous money into something other than overvalued equity, crazy gold, and no-interest bonds. Is this a good idea or just an expensive hobby?

Make sure you get the mineral rights if you do this or you can get screwed. You would think this would be the default, but it's not. So many morons out there buying property where they only own the top of the dirt....might as well keep renting.

[jacob]

Okay, I verified that it's a 2.5" 12 gauge shotgun, so not .410.

[Chad]

Well, that's a lot different. A 12 gauge slug could actually take down a deer and the proper shot will take down all other animals. The slug is more limited in range than a rifle, but if you are hunting forests instead of fields you probably won't care too much.

[Seneca]

In related news, I've been kinda considering buying hunting/fishing/timberland as a way of sinking superfluous money into something other than overvalued equity, crazy gold, and no-interest bonds. Is this a good idea or just an expensive hobby?

I think it's like anything, well bought it's a great investment, mess it up and expensive hobby.

DW was talking about how she wished we had a cabin up in the mountains and my answer was we should buy timberland. Instead of having carrying costs, we have an investment and can write off travel/improvement expenses to the property as well.

I've done some cursory research but as it is a while out haven't dug deeper than looking at prices and reading a few articles. Timber rights are different than mineral rights but you certainly want to make sure you get them as part of the sale.

That shotgun will be good for most birds, it's geese that you really need the bigger shells for. If you can find rifled 12ga 2.5" slugs, they're good for game up to even bear and elk out to about 75yds provided you & your gun can shoot them precisely (you'll need to test fire it on paper). In Alaska they arm park service with a 12ga and slugs for bear protection.

[George the original one]

Before accepting/using the shotgun, you'll want to know what kind of choke it has. Full choke is for geese/ducks & not suitable for slugs, but you could use buckshot for deer with it. Other chokes are more general purpose. Open/no choke is kind of useless IMHO.