I know half of us have all thought about how we could invest in something we believe in and turn a profit. I would like to hear what ideas this group would consider putting money where the mouth is.
I have always been interested in energy efficient living, but it never made sense while energy is as cheap as today (think coolerado, solar heating, and wind farms). Currently, I do think owning land would be a wise investment.
Does anyone think they have a fail safe investment if only there was more capital to make it happen? I am not saying we will all decide to create something together, but it would be cool. There is so much intellectual talent on this site that I am convinced we could start our own company if we focused our goals...(beyond not working:)).
ERE is going to invest and create ....
Maybe it's just me, but a forum devoted to retirement doesn't seem like a good place to recruit people to start a company.
Just kidding...
For someone who's hit ERE, the ideal startup company would be one that didn't require a lot of capital, but which did require a lot of effort. Developing software fits that perfectly. Once I retire and the novelty has worn off, I think I'd like to do software development - for fun rather than for employment as I currently do. I'd like to program games (or something else...) but without having to work for anyone, and without the pressure to deliver ASAP.
Just kidding...
For someone who's hit ERE, the ideal startup company would be one that didn't require a lot of capital, but which did require a lot of effort. Developing software fits that perfectly. Once I retire and the novelty has worn off, I think I'd like to do software development - for fun rather than for employment as I currently do. I'd like to program games (or something else...) but without having to work for anyone, and without the pressure to deliver ASAP.
I have excess capital, but would demand that any partner put up an equal or a "this would really hurt if I lose it" amount to know that they have enough skin in the game. And I don't want to do any work other than the legal stuff.
If you have a serious proposal, let me know. This is actually one of the reasons I came here. People who are committed to be frugal may not make a lot of money, but they probably won't lose it either.
If you have a serious proposal, let me know. This is actually one of the reasons I came here. People who are committed to be frugal may not make a lot of money, but they probably won't lose it either.
dragoncar
Nice. Maybe some of the lawyers can help us understand how to go about that.
Dragline
I completely agree with the capital statement. Too many people are willing to talk but not risk anything. I do not have a serious proposal yet, but a lot of industry has proven to provide a good return like auction and HVAC. I happen to be related to the later.
I think many people on this site might not have complained so much about the system or their jobs if we were part of the ownership. Think small time CEO or CFO.
I know for me the issue lies in my hatred of inefficiency (think dilbert). If I was paid awesome to improve things I probably would never have come here since I likely would have had more advocation satisfaction. I have no problem with work, just the consistent 40/week no matter what you are trying to accomplish. Give me a task and I will complete it. Don't expect me to show my face until 5pm if I don't have anything to do.
Nice. Maybe some of the lawyers can help us understand how to go about that.
Dragline
I completely agree with the capital statement. Too many people are willing to talk but not risk anything. I do not have a serious proposal yet, but a lot of industry has proven to provide a good return like auction and HVAC. I happen to be related to the later.
I think many people on this site might not have complained so much about the system or their jobs if we were part of the ownership. Think small time CEO or CFO.
I know for me the issue lies in my hatred of inefficiency (think dilbert). If I was paid awesome to improve things I probably would never have come here since I likely would have had more advocation satisfaction. I have no problem with work, just the consistent 40/week no matter what you are trying to accomplish. Give me a task and I will complete it. Don't expect me to show my face until 5pm if I don't have anything to do.
That Blodget article may be in jest, but its not that far off from "how it is done" on the largest scales in our economy. Corporate entities rule, whether we like it or not.
If you haven't read "An Unconventional Guide to Investing in Troubled Times" by Charles Hughes Smith, I highly recommend it. It got me thinking about a lot of things. His discussion of the three types of capital -- Financial (what you are used to calling capital), Human (your knowledge and skill sets) and Social (your relationships, contacts, networks)and how they interrelate to create wealth is brilliant.
I concluded I probably needed more Social Capital with like-minded people and it led me here.
Here's a link to a free podcast interview of the author:
http://twobeerswithsteve.libsyn.com/epi ... hugh-smith
If you haven't read "An Unconventional Guide to Investing in Troubled Times" by Charles Hughes Smith, I highly recommend it. It got me thinking about a lot of things. His discussion of the three types of capital -- Financial (what you are used to calling capital), Human (your knowledge and skill sets) and Social (your relationships, contacts, networks)and how they interrelate to create wealth is brilliant.
I concluded I probably needed more Social Capital with like-minded people and it led me here.
Here's a link to a free podcast interview of the author:
http://twobeerswithsteve.libsyn.com/epi ... hugh-smith
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jacob
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First objection:
We have intellectual capital, yes, but do we have the other kinds of capital as well?
Like, do we have people willing to do grunt work or even skilled work? What about managers (I hate managing)?
I would imagine most of us here are mostly interested in/capable of optimizing efficiency/operations management when it comes to businesses or am I projecting?
Second objection:
In most cases, I find I can do a more efficient job on my own than by working together with others. (Of course, most of my examples has to do with intellectual work.)
----
But otherwise, it's a good idea. I'd like to get involved in something like this. We talked about the concept of Nullhof at one point: A self-reliant homestead using fablab techniques. My main objection was what it was going to sell; that we might end up with a bunch of fancy production equipment with no plan for what to use it for.
I would be very interested in getting involved in a company/business that makes stuff that's intended to last forever/could be serviced by the buyer. This would be the selling point. However, I'm not good enough to make stuff that's sufficiently "nice" to sell and to be honest, I don't think I have the drive to reach such a point of craftsmanship.
I'm also interested in quant/hedge fund type stuff.
If "ERE" business startups is of much interest, I can start a forum where people can contribute their business plans/ideas. I foresee geography to be a major problem here---not everything is going to be software/location independent.
We have intellectual capital, yes, but do we have the other kinds of capital as well?
Like, do we have people willing to do grunt work or even skilled work? What about managers (I hate managing)?
I would imagine most of us here are mostly interested in/capable of optimizing efficiency/operations management when it comes to businesses or am I projecting?
Second objection:
In most cases, I find I can do a more efficient job on my own than by working together with others. (Of course, most of my examples has to do with intellectual work.)
----
But otherwise, it's a good idea. I'd like to get involved in something like this. We talked about the concept of Nullhof at one point: A self-reliant homestead using fablab techniques. My main objection was what it was going to sell; that we might end up with a bunch of fancy production equipment with no plan for what to use it for.
I would be very interested in getting involved in a company/business that makes stuff that's intended to last forever/could be serviced by the buyer. This would be the selling point. However, I'm not good enough to make stuff that's sufficiently "nice" to sell and to be honest, I don't think I have the drive to reach such a point of craftsmanship.
I'm also interested in quant/hedge fund type stuff.
If "ERE" business startups is of much interest, I can start a forum where people can contribute their business plans/ideas. I foresee geography to be a major problem here---not everything is going to be software/location independent.
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jacob
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One example of what appears to be a small shop manufacturing business
http://www.twofish.biz/bike.html
http://www.twofish.biz/bike.html
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jacob
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I would also suggest being very careful about starting a business with what is essentially "the same kind of people". The nonprofit start up I used to work for/with was essentially filled with "visionary managers". Oh, how they loved meetings, and managing. Nothing much ever got done because nobody really did anything other than managing, discussing plans for managing, and writing guidelines for managing.
I could imagine a bunch of us building the perfect system... with nobody willing to actually run the "boring" details of it.
But maybe we're different enough.
(Another real productivity killer is when people have full-time jobs and think of their startup as a side-business which they are only willing to "advise" or "contribute a couple of hours per week to". This is no good!)
I could imagine a bunch of us building the perfect system... with nobody willing to actually run the "boring" details of it.
But maybe we're different enough.
(Another real productivity killer is when people have full-time jobs and think of their startup as a side-business which they are only willing to "advise" or "contribute a couple of hours per week to". This is no good!)
Yikes, re your non-profit experience, those are exactly the people I would want to avoid. My thinking is that if you have the discipline and creativity to live a frugal lifestyle, you would probably be able to apply the same traits to a business venture, but only if you were really motivated by the venture.
I had thought about the hedge fund idea, but the regulations surrounding such things are pretty onerous (and are getting more so). Plus, I can't say I have any brilliant investing ideas that someone else hasn't thought of. But if someone had an idea that played off the discussion in Mandelbrot's "The (Mis)behavior of Markets", I'd be quite interested.
I'm honestly only interested in putting up the financial capital -- i.e., being an angel investor on a small scale -- and dealing with the legal (my human Capital). I would just need to be comfortable with my partner(s), the idea and have an exit point.
Maybe we don't have the right kind of people here, but you never know . . .
I had thought about the hedge fund idea, but the regulations surrounding such things are pretty onerous (and are getting more so). Plus, I can't say I have any brilliant investing ideas that someone else hasn't thought of. But if someone had an idea that played off the discussion in Mandelbrot's "The (Mis)behavior of Markets", I'd be quite interested.
I'm honestly only interested in putting up the financial capital -- i.e., being an angel investor on a small scale -- and dealing with the legal (my human Capital). I would just need to be comfortable with my partner(s), the idea and have an exit point.
Maybe we don't have the right kind of people here, but you never know . . .
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LiquidSapphire
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- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm
Well I'm an ISTJ so I don't mind doing the behind the scenes paperwork stuff for whatever it is. I have a background in HR and also have been already considering taking a bookkeeping course in the case I wanted to start some kind of side business in that. I have a knack of numbers and enjoy accounting and budgeting in general. Just throwing it out there.
I'd love to invest in a small agricultural operation. For example, there is a fellow in my area of the country who has a small herd of goats that he takes from place to place. People hire him to clear land/brush of noxious weeds, because the goats will eat the whole thing, roots, seeds and all. Better and safer than using chemicals. He's booked for the entire summer.
Alas, I know very little about animal husbandry.
Alas, I know very little about animal husbandry.
How about we pool money and buy a large, many unit apartment building somewhere?
I'm under the impression that those large apartment buildings have great returns, but the large capital requirements restrict who can participate. Plus we have some real estate expertise on these forums.
I'd also definitely be interested in a group purchase of a parking garage in a major city. That wouldn't be socially responsible, but we'd make a killing.
I'd happily cash out the REIT part of my portfolio (or even more of my portfolio) and put it towards a group purchase like an apartment building or parking garage.
I'm under the impression that those large apartment buildings have great returns, but the large capital requirements restrict who can participate. Plus we have some real estate expertise on these forums.
I'd also definitely be interested in a group purchase of a parking garage in a major city. That wouldn't be socially responsible, but we'd make a killing.
I'd happily cash out the REIT part of my portfolio (or even more of my portfolio) and put it towards a group purchase like an apartment building or parking garage.
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jacob
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[Tiny house] RV park. Residence and construction. Zoned commercial---could have a shop on-site a'la The Crucible.
About 200k and up for a park. I think 500k is needed to have more selection. This is beyond my means.
Such a park could house many projects like ERE software developers (unless people have stopped talking face to face), shops, snowbirds, and if nicely located it could even provide the location of ERE city.
http://www.rvparksale.com/rv-parks-for-sale/31.html
http://www.rvparkstore.com/rv-parks/719 ... -rumney-nh
About 200k and up for a park. I think 500k is needed to have more selection. This is beyond my means.
Such a park could house many projects like ERE software developers (unless people have stopped talking face to face), shops, snowbirds, and if nicely located it could even provide the location of ERE city.
http://www.rvparksale.com/rv-parks-for-sale/31.html
http://www.rvparkstore.com/rv-parks/719 ... -rumney-nh
Blogged!
Not by me, of course
We should start a shadow entity - above the government, above the law. We can right wrongs and protect the weak. We may need serious funding at the beginning for R&D. We should probably develop some kind of flexible combat armor and a jet-engine-powered road vehicle for quick getaways.
Not by me, of course
We should start a shadow entity - above the government, above the law. We can right wrongs and protect the weak. We may need serious funding at the beginning for R&D. We should probably develop some kind of flexible combat armor and a jet-engine-powered road vehicle for quick getaways.
@akratic
You are correct that in some instances ROI can be completely satisfactory in the multi-family apartment business. This is what I did at age 58: I partnered with three others and invested quite a bit of money into one multi-family apartment complex, and one elderly and handicapped apartment complex. The other three partners wanted nothing but a quarterly P&L and a deposit. I, with my wife took the management of these for a period of 8 years. The option would have been to hire a management company at an even higher fee than we took to run them. In order to insure occupancy, we went under the umbrella of USDA-Rural Development, who kicked in some funding, and rent subsidy for the tenants, especially the elderly and handicapped units. The compliance was intense. There were also involved the State Development Finance Authority to contend with. Both of these agencies were replete with inspections and regulatory requirements. Signs, leases, quarterly inspections of the units, and the full effects of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). So what I am saying is while occupancy is almost a given, the administrative end is taxing to the max.
Now I must also say that management of an apartment complex of almost any flavor will begin to taste of the keg in a rather short period of time. The fun wears off pretty fast.
I won't go into details on that as I am sure everyone has a pretty good imagination.
So here are my detractors as to getting into apartments:
To increase ROI, one of the members should be the manager, not a management company. Management companies do little to protect your investment, and most are way too expensive and unsatisfactory. I am fighting that situation now.
Doing things all over again, I would do a long pencil to see if I could survive without rental subsidies. I am not saying these attract less than desirable tenants------well maybe I am saying that. However market rate apartments also have their full tilt of problems as well. You need to realize that rehabbing an apartment (doing a turn-around as it is called) can approach $1500.00 if doing wall holes, carpets and paint. More with torn up appliances of course.
If your renting Section 8, or Section 515, good luck at any litigation to recover. You need a LOT of evidence such as before and after photos to make anything stick. For people who tear up apartments and don't pay their rent and cook meth, they are certainly not going to reimburse an apartment owner.
If properly managed (a 24/7 job at best) ROI can be healthy.
Our ROI has dropped 18% on the quarter since I retired and we hired a management company. I thought of going back, but the others and I decided to stay as we are for now. I have had three management companies since I retired in 2010, and I have been totally displeased with all of them.
You are correct that in some instances ROI can be completely satisfactory in the multi-family apartment business. This is what I did at age 58: I partnered with three others and invested quite a bit of money into one multi-family apartment complex, and one elderly and handicapped apartment complex. The other three partners wanted nothing but a quarterly P&L and a deposit. I, with my wife took the management of these for a period of 8 years. The option would have been to hire a management company at an even higher fee than we took to run them. In order to insure occupancy, we went under the umbrella of USDA-Rural Development, who kicked in some funding, and rent subsidy for the tenants, especially the elderly and handicapped units. The compliance was intense. There were also involved the State Development Finance Authority to contend with. Both of these agencies were replete with inspections and regulatory requirements. Signs, leases, quarterly inspections of the units, and the full effects of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). So what I am saying is while occupancy is almost a given, the administrative end is taxing to the max.
Now I must also say that management of an apartment complex of almost any flavor will begin to taste of the keg in a rather short period of time. The fun wears off pretty fast.
I won't go into details on that as I am sure everyone has a pretty good imagination.
So here are my detractors as to getting into apartments:
To increase ROI, one of the members should be the manager, not a management company. Management companies do little to protect your investment, and most are way too expensive and unsatisfactory. I am fighting that situation now.
Doing things all over again, I would do a long pencil to see if I could survive without rental subsidies. I am not saying these attract less than desirable tenants------well maybe I am saying that. However market rate apartments also have their full tilt of problems as well. You need to realize that rehabbing an apartment (doing a turn-around as it is called) can approach $1500.00 if doing wall holes, carpets and paint. More with torn up appliances of course.
If your renting Section 8, or Section 515, good luck at any litigation to recover. You need a LOT of evidence such as before and after photos to make anything stick. For people who tear up apartments and don't pay their rent and cook meth, they are certainly not going to reimburse an apartment owner.
If properly managed (a 24/7 job at best) ROI can be healthy.
Our ROI has dropped 18% on the quarter since I retired and we hired a management company. I thought of going back, but the others and I decided to stay as we are for now. I have had three management companies since I retired in 2010, and I have been totally displeased with all of them.