European Union

Move along, nothing to see here!
rfgh
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European Union

Post by rfgh »

If you had the ability to gain EU citizenship, which country would you retire in? Healthcare is the big question if you are used to the US.

BRUTE
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Re: European Union

Post by BRUTE »

don't they have freedom of movement? no need to pick just one.

baska
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Re: European Union

Post by baska »

Don't go to Poland. Plenty terrorist attacks.

rfgh
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Re: European Union

Post by rfgh »

BRUTE wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:13 pm
don't they have freedom of movement? no need to pick just one.
Yes, but it'd be a hassle since most things are handled by the individual country. Looking for the best welfare state.

rfgh
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Re: European Union

Post by rfgh »

Best financial strategy to get Euros? Perhaps invest dollars in European ETFs to match EU inflation.

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Jean
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Re: European Union

Post by Jean »

Follow the migrants. France has free healthcare for evety one being there illegaly.

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Re: European Union

Post by jacob »

@rfgh - They're all more similar to each other than to the US. (Just like US states are not the same but more similar to each other than any one particular European country.)

As a resident EU citizen you would get a health care card (similar to an ID card---in some countries, it would be your de facto ID card too) that would let you obtain health care no matter which EU country you're in or visit. You don't have to worry about out-of-area coverage.

Countries vary a bit on whether you need to carry some insurance or not insofar you establish residence there.

In general the state would cover most if not all of the cost (say 70-100%). You then insure for the rest (0-30%) so premiums are small. I don't recall anything about people worrying about pre-existing conditions or knowing what that even meant in terms of health care; like "why would you make someone pay extra just because they have a known condition?!"---that's the thinking over there. Also never heard anything about the concept of "deductible". I'd expect most plans to be zero deductible and perhaps have a small copay like 10EUR(*). Figure that this is organized as a tax that's either visible or invisible. If it's invisible, general taxes in the country will be higher (all services included). If it's visible it'll likely be capped by your salary or something "fair" .. and other taxes will be lower (some services included). Hence, it all works out to the same result in the end. Since you mentioned retirement and welfare, keep in mind that capital income is taxed much higher in general (unless you head east), typically 30%, whereas the US gives us [mini-fatcats] a huge break here. Also in at least some cases, a public pension will have to be earned via some kind of work or residence tenure similar to the US SS point system.

(*) This IS becoming a thing. It's mostly to prevent a small fraction of people from clogging the system whenever they have a cold and delaying others.

If you want fancy service, you can buy extra insurance for some of the private providers (few do that)---like if you get stage IV lung cancer and would rather live out your days in a private room rather than on a ward of two-six people, you can insure for that.

Stuff like aromatherapy, chiropractic, and vanity plastic surgery would be out of pocket.

From a US perspective you can expect the following differences: (I'm being VERY general here)
  • Less choice in provider. You'll generally be given a very short list of options to choose from. Compare to a HMO in the US but it's based on the municipality or city ... not a corporation/insurance provider. So insofar you grown attached to a particular GP doctor, expect to change if you move over to the next city.
  • Much less testing and technology dependence. No MRIs just because you have a stomach ache from hell (happened to me in IL, billed at ~$10k).
  • No single-person fancy rooms, cable TV, and choice of hospital restaurant menu for you in case you're hospitalized (unless you pay extra).
  • Little ability to insist on second, third, ... opinions. It's just not in the culture.
  • Much less use of prescription drugs. (Americans constitute 4% of global population but consume about 80% of the world's painkillers.)
  • No/little associated paperwork. Most likely you just get a receipt informing you that everything has been taken care of if that. No risk of medical bankruptcy.
In terms of outcomes, if we look at the EU and the US, the US is about the middle of the pack. In either case, you get the service of a developed country with highly trained doctors, etc.

Or putting it in words, here are comparable examples of what happens if you hit your head hard enough to get reasonably concerned:

Hitting your head in Denmark: Once upon a time I was riding my bike going downhill. Suddenly some school kid sees a friend on the other side of the street and steps out directly in front of me. He stops the bike with his face via the handlebars. I fly over him and the bike and hit the ground with my helmet which cracks (wear a helmet people!) and I do a rolling fall. He's picked up by an ambulance. I feel fine so I go to work. The day after I have a slight headache so I start worrying whether I have a concussion, so I walk over to the ER. I give them my card and tell them what happened. How long ago was that? Oh about 30 hours. Well, that's usually too long but we'll see you anyway. Go wait over there. I wait for 1-2 hours or something. Then some doc brings me to a room that looks like a clinic (I think there was one other patient in there too) sees me and shines a light in my eyes and tests my reflexes. Finds nothing and sends me home. And I never hear anything from the hospital again, no bill, no nothing. This is normal.

Hitting your head in the US: Once upon a time DW is shopping in home improvement store (luckily as part of her job) and some cardboard box [with stuff in it] falls on her head from a shell above. She's not down or out. However, an ambulance is called. When I show up at the hospital, she's lying in a private room in the ER in a neckbrace and they've done X-rays and the whole thing. So she just lies there staring at the ceiling and I sit there for 2-3 hours until some doc comes in and says that according to the x-rays there's nothing to see so we can go home. (Are you sure? After all this? Yes, no problem. You can go home now.) About a month later, we start receiving bills from this or that department (doc, x-ray, data-analysis, ... ) and playing administration with billing-codes and two different insurance companies. Luckily, since it was a work-incident, they covered everything.

So when picking your EU country, I'd focus on something else than health care, because you pretty much don't have to worry about health care in any EU country. Also, as brute noted, you can always move. I'd focus more on culture, lifestyle, and people much as if you had to pick a US state. However, language is important in Europe. I highly recommend making the attempt to "speak native" here whenever possible. Even if everybody under age 50 speaks fluent English as second language, your attempt will be appreciated.

rfgh
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Re: European Union

Post by rfgh »

That you for the excellent reply. I will have to be careful since I won't be contributing to pension via work. Also, despite being American, I can speak the language of most "major" EU countries.

BRUTE
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Re: European Union

Post by BRUTE »

rfgh wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:27 pm
Also, despite being American, I can speak the language of most "major" EU countries.
what language is that?

Dragline
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Re: European Union

Post by Dragline »

Yeah, I think I would move around - isn't that the point? Maybe something in Croatia and something in Spain to own.

IMO, the main problem with the EU is that its located pretty far north compared to the US and gets less sun in the winter. You might want to follow the "snowbird" pattern common for US retirees, which is to be north in the summer and south in the winter.

Did
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Re: European Union

Post by Did »

Health care in Ireland is very sick. The country is bankrupt after all. People die on trollies. Tests take years (too late). Most have private health. Not covering preexisting conditions for a few years at least is very real. The cost is rising far quicker than inflation.

GPs are expensive. At least 80 euro a visit. Insurance will not cover any of that. A small minority have a health care card. ERE types would not qualify for it.

Ireland is not a great country to grow old in from a health care perspective. Oh, and the EU health card doesn't let you just pop over to France say for treatment. As I understand it, it's basically medical insurance should you be travelling in the EU for a purpose other than getting medical care.

Did
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Re: European Union

Post by Did »

PS if you go to emergency you might wait 12 hours (drunks mainly) and they charge 100 euro a visit.

simplex
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Re: European Union

Post by simplex »

I'd say healthcare as it is perceived by individuals in the EU varies a lot.
Healthcare as measured on a country level is very good in western/northern Europe, and good in the rest (e.g. Greece has funding problems).

Most healthcare funding problems arise with long term care, usually not emergency care.
The systems vary a lot between the countries, Here in the Netherlands, I can choose from about 100 different insurers, which offer different plans. All offer a basic plan, and they are required by law to accept everybody.

In the EU, you can move freely. However this does not mean that you can settle in any country and use their social care (including healthcare). There are quite some rules governing this. What you can do is travel (except meditourism) and get required emergency care in any country without paying, as it is covered by the insurer of your country of residence.

sky
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Re: European Union

Post by sky »

I have an EU Visa and I choose the USA.

RealPerson
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Re: European Union

Post by RealPerson »

simplex wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:53 pm
I'd say healthcare as it is perceived by individuals in the EU varies a lot.
Healthcare as measured on a country level is very good in western/northern Europe, and good in the rest (e.g. Greece has funding problems).

Most healthcare funding problems arise with long term care, usually not emergency care.
The systems vary a lot between the countries, Here in the Netherlands, I can choose from about 100 different insurers, which offer different plans. All offer a basic plan, and they are required by law to accept everybody.

In the EU, you can move freely. However this does not mean that you can settle in any country and use their social care (including healthcare). There are quite some rules governing this. What you can do is travel (except meditourism) and get required emergency care in any country without paying, as it is covered by the insurer of your country of residence.
That is exactly my understanding. But for Americans healthcare in Europe is so inexpensive that you could easily self insure. Then you don't have to worry about where you reside. For example, my 20 minute appendectomy over 10 years ago in the US cost $15,000, of which I had to pay $10,000. That is with insurance, at a $1,200 per month insurance premium. And all in my family are healthy. At these prices you call easily afford to self insure anywhere in Europe. It really is a bargain.

BRUTE
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Re: European Union

Post by BRUTE »

sky wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:22 pm
I have an EU Visa and I choose the USA.
reasons were?

sky
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Re: European Union

Post by sky »

More freedoms, less social control, cheap gas, rock and roll radio, interesting chaos, real wilderness, parking spaces, lower cost of living, better weather, less traffic, easier for a foreigner to fit in.

sky
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Re: European Union

Post by sky »

To answer the OP's question, I would go to Freiburg, Germany and would take the train out into the Black Forest and find a small village. Hopefully on a road with not too much traffic.

RealPerson
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Re: European Union

Post by RealPerson »

:shock:
BRUTE wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:55 pm
rfgh wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:27 pm
Also, despite being American, I can speak the language of most "major" EU countries.
what language is that?
My guess is English. 🤔

lente
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Re: European Union

Post by lente »

RealPerson wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:05 pm
:shock:
BRUTE wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:55 pm
rfgh wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:27 pm
Also, despite being American, I can speak the language of most "major" EU countries.
what language is that?
My guess is English. 🤔
Or money.

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