What have you had to unlearn to grow?

[C40]

- That people will generally think rationally

- That my parents/family/teachers/bosses will give me the right advice or that they will be correct

- The Religion fairytale and that there is any purpose to life other than species propagation.

[dreamdreamdream]

-this first

That things are not necessarily as they are presented. When I was a teen, I decided there probably isn't a God, and that he therefore couldn't kill me for not believing in him. I remember expressing my disbelief out loud in a closet, feeling like I might well die for having been wrong.

-the hardest

That we (members of the rich world, but probably everyone) grow up in a natural, i.e. non-conspiratorial system of constrained thought, and one that favors the powerful. Tribalism and indoctrination prevented me from accepting for many years something as simple as that there might be useful truths in the works of Marx, or that the US may be the villain in a foreign conflict. As much as thinking critically, I had to learn to allow myself to think such unthinkable thoughts.

-the most important

Trust your reasoning, and failing that, your gut. One example: people will most often behave exactly as you'd expect on your most cynical day. Don't get trapped not applying your skills of empathy and understanding to family, friends, your boss, or powerful figures. They're people and they will most often act in their own interest. Don't let yourself be surprised or hurt or caught unaware, or be taken in by a nice story.

[enigmaT120]

I'm having a hard time coming up with anything. I guess I don't grow very much.

Hey I thought of one: being smarter than other people doesn't mean I can't learn from them.

[bryan]

I'm getting a bit thrown by some folks' posts... can't quite tell if the lessons shared are the ones learned or unlearned

I don't think I've really unlearned anything explicitly(!!). More likely I've just continued to evolve and things that are not practised just slip/decay/fade away. Also likely is I just have a shit memory.

For instance, my father raised me with religion, but over time the structure, devotions, practise has faded away but certain lessons stick around in my subconscious (having molded me). I have not unlearned these in any explicit, single act (no big crisis..), it's all just been very fluid.

I've never given much thought to rules, usually just figuring out what is the reasonable cause behind them or if breaking them has drastic results (pro/con). My mother gets really anxious about a lot of my rule breaking.. Again, no real single epiphany about rules of society; I've just learned and thought on them as I encounter them. I don't think there were any rules I lived by that I later renounced..



Maybe all this just makes me really naive and exposes me as still living in some sort of boring box. Though I don't worry about that too much; of all the books I've read the folks I have most associated with are the the enlightened Buddhist types (and they seem pretty cool).

Maybe I am just extremely lucky. Maybe I am an idiot.

Otherwise, I'm sure I am just deluded or falling victim to some cognitive bias or don't know the unknowns.

I guess the one thing I am doing now that would have been nice to avoid is working for a paycheck to save money to stop working? That's kind of a drag and I will probably have some lessons about it in the future (like I should have taken more (leveraged) risks or move faster or in parallel or something).

"Programming is better than sex". Dude, it isn't. You're just a sad motherfucker.

That's a bit harsh. Do you think the fat guy was lying? Or are you saying he is just trapped and should learn that, actually, sex is better than programming? Or something more profound? Just to put my own experience out there, from memory there have been a few times while I was rowing (regarded as a very painful sport; no runner's high here) that I experienced a euphoria of the body, mind, and outside world that was pretty incredible. I haven't had a sexual experience that was clearly better, as they are rather orthogonal, different. There are times where programming is clearly preferable to sex.

....fellatio....

No... NO!!!!

I read it as she had to unlearn fellatio to really learn fellatio

[7Wannabe5]

When you are trained as a submissive, you learn to release the anxiety center of the brain, take a profound amount of pain, and then sublimate it into erotic pleasure. So, it's like runner's high, orgasm and some transcendent drug rolled into an experience that can last for an hour, and leave you absolutely wiped for several days afterward. It's very hard to unlearn this enough to even be nice to somebody who tries to go all "butterfly kisses" on you like you are some kind of china doll. Blech.

[Did]

"Programming is better than sex". Dude, it isn't. You're just a sad motherfucker.

That's a bit harsh. Do you think the fat guy was lying? Or are you saying he is just trapped and should learn that, actually, sex is better than programming? Or something more profound? Just to put my own experience out there, from memory there have been a few times while I was rowing (regarded as a very painful sport; no runner's high here) that I experienced a euphoria of the body, mind, and outside world that was pretty incredible. I haven't had a sexual experience that was clearly better, as they are rather orthogonal, different. There are times where programming is clearly preferable to sex.

Probably he isn't lying. Programming, for him, is better than (no) sex. But I stand by my original observation! He's either getting none, or doing it wrong.

[7Wannabe5]

Actually, I did unlearn S/M because I eventually got bored with it. Like how I get bored with everything eventually (sigh.) It was too much like always waiting around several hours for somebody with the personality of a stereotypical Soviet Gymnastics Coach to cook you a gourmet meal when sometimes you just want a decent burger or even a vanilla ice cream cone.

[jennypenny]

Like how I get bored with everything eventually (sigh.)

^^this

I've had to unlearn the idea that if I could just 'find my passion' I'd be all set. Passion doesn't pay the bills and doesn't always last. I also think the more intelligent/determined/industrious you are, the faster you can burn through your passions.

[FBeyer]

Like how I get bored with everything eventually (sigh.)

^^this

I've had to unlearn the idea that if I could just 'find my passion' I'd be all set. Passion doesn't pay the bills and doesn't always last. I also think the more intelligent/determined/industrious you are, the faster you can burn through your passions.

We need a support group. puttylike.com isn't doing enough for me...

[henrik]

I've had to unlearn the idea that if I could just 'find my passion' I'd be all set. Passion doesn't pay the bills and doesn't always last. I also think the more intelligent/determined/industrious you are, the faster you can burn through your passions.

We need a support group. puttylike.com isn't doing enough for me...

I'll join this group. Well, for a while anyway.

[1taskaday]

1.That life is fair.I could expand on this But it's pretty self explanatory....life is what it is and the word fair or unfair doesn't come in to it.

2.He/She who works the hardest (in a team or communal work setting) is to be admired...I now think of them as "martyr",weak(lacking in self esteem/needy types),just not really clued in to the way work systems are.

3.I used to think money was meaninglessness and didn't make one happy.I now see it as the ticket to independence and freedom in this world.

4.I used to feel bad or guilty for refusing to follow society's rules,traditions etc, now I realize one can "get away" with anything as long as they don't give a toss about other people's opinion or labels.

5.Linked to No.1 above.I used to think some people had really bad luck or got a raw deal.I now realize that they bring much of it on themselves by refusing to learn or grow.And that the key is how one deals with the "stuff" and not the actual stuff thrown at one.

6.A huge learning for me has been about energy expenditure (self-energy).Instead of trying to increase the amount one has,one should stop wastage and FOCUS it on what one wants.

7.Most males will go for a drink or hang out with any "dope/idiot"for company.It's not a big deal to them-means nothing.Women just can't understand this lack of discernment.Understanding this has helped me to understand how the male mind works.

8.Everyone puts their own self interests first (just a natural law),even loved ones.(Maybe except "martyr' types who are to be avoided as they are generally volatile).Once one understands this life and decisions are pretty simple.

9.That nobody can have it all.Sometimes you have to let go of "somethings" to get other things.That can be tough and sucks But nobody can have it all.

[FBeyer]

I've had to unlearn the idea that if I could just 'find my passion' I'd be all set. Passion doesn't pay the bills and doesn't always last. I also think the more intelligent/determined/industrious you are, the faster you can burn through your passions.

We need a support group. puttylike.com isn't doing enough for me...

I'll join this group. Well, for a while anyway.

I lolled

[daylen]

7.Most males will go for a drink or hang out with any "dope/idiot"for company.It's not a big deal to them-means nothing.Women just can't understand this lack of discernment.Understanding this has helped me to understand how the male mind works.

Could you elaborate? What have you inferred about the male mind from this? Just curious.

[1taskaday]

This is a complement to males.

That is why they do better linking up for business.

Females put way too much emotional energy into relationships,whether just passing or long-term.

In the male way of thinking there is less second guessing or judgment.They network socially or in business because that's what's needed.

It's just one of the ways genders differ naturally.

It took a while for me to click this.Not a big deal just explains to me behaviour I couldn't understand.

[FBeyer]

I had to unlearn the idea that in order to finish faster, you had to work harder.
Getting started in less efficient than getting smart before starting, but always with 80/20 in mind.

[Dave]

I had to unlearn to ask questions like this. Which is really hard to explain to people. I guess you could say that I shy away from the idea of universal truths, other than what science can offer, but even with all we've learned in the sciences it really doesn't seem like we understand who we are, where we came from, or where we're going to a degree that would give me a sense of feeling like I knew what the hell was going on. You can clutch theories or religion like a safety blanket, but they all break down if you try to explain how any of this got here. The big bang or god or whatever just begs another question, what caused THAT (god, bang, etc)? I love thinking about that, eventually I end up thinking that it is very strange that I am here at all, because it is, which makes life poignant until my meat brain takes over again and I forget about it until next time.

After I get all that crap out if my head (the idea that anyone really knows what they're doing), life becomes very amusing and interesting, and the things we humans get up to are hilarious.

This resonates with me. The times I keep this in mind, things are indeed amusing.

In response to the OP, I would say that I have unlearned little but instead adjusted the extent to which I believe certain things, and have expanded my limits on concepts such that my worldview is always shifting. Maybe it is lack of confidence or just how my brain works, but I don't hold certainty towards most anything so I don't often find myself in a position where I have to radically unlearn a whole concept - I just have to adjust my view of the concept and how it fits in a bigger concept.

So if anything, I've had to unlearn the mistake of certainty in favor of accepting uncertainty as business as usual. The tools to evaluate reality are updated, but reality is ultimately unknowable. Uncertainty can be reduced, which is in practical terms what I try to do, but it's all uncertain. And I'm okay with that.

[Tyler9000]

My two favorite professors in engineering school informally studied for many years the effect of education on creativity. They ran an annual experiment among people at all levels of education from elementary school kids to engineering PhD candidates with a simple design challenge -- given a Sunday newspaper and a roll of masking tape, build the longest bridge between two tables that could support a book in the middle. Inevitably every year, the elementary students would win while the engineering experts would fail to even complete the task. While the older competitors would argue about the optimum truss design to build with the paper and how to properly join it with the tape, the kids would just push the tables 50 ft apart, unwind the entire roll of tape between them, and spend the remaining time reading the comics. I feel I've been pretty successful as a design engineer largely because I approach every new problem by taking that lesson to heart -- How would a third grader solve this? It's amazing how much of a hindrance extensive training can be, and unlearning all of that is an important step in doing something new.

Also, back when I was just a few years out of school I was highly proficient in a popular CAD software. It was a major pride point, and my particular skills were extremely desirable in the industry. I remember when a company hired me specifically for those skills, and proceeded to work me 80 hours a week behind a computer as I was too valuable doing that one task to "waste" on anything else, and too advanced for others to keep up with to help. I eventually learned that the only way to break that cycle permanently was to unlearn that piece of software. Being a specialist has its drawbacks.

[Dragline]

I heard an interview of Tony Robbins last week, where he said that the worst lesson anyone taught/learned was that "Achievement is more important than fulfillment."

I suppose it depends on how you define those words, but he seemed to be focused on "outward symbols of achievement/success" versus some form of "inner satisfaction/peace."

[jacob]

@Tyler9000 - Cool story!

There were a few (just a few) such lessons from the many years I spent in the school[ing] system but those kinds of lessons that I still remember whereas I think of the rest as mostly just a grand waste of time. Anyhoo... one was actually a similar kind of bridge building exercise: 5th grade woodworking. We were given (as many as we wanted) 3" pieces of wood. Dimensions where roughly 3x1/4x3/4 or so. Exact size doesn't matter. The object was to use glue or nails to build a bridge between two workbenches. IIRC, about 3 feet apart. The bridge had to be 3" wide. The winning team's (two person teams) bridge would hold the most weight or alternatively, the most weight using the least amount of wood. I designed a friggin' suspension bridge. Came in #2. The winning team initially wanted to make a board gluing the pieces together flat. I pointed out that it would probably stronger if they turned them 90 degrees and glued them side by side. So using glue they reformed the board that our teacher initially got the wood out of with the table saw. They won by a big margin. I didn't learn a thing ;-P I thought they were kinda cheating even if they technically weren't (even though that was a big lesson of how the world works compared to my understanding of it or rather how I thought it should be). IOW, no meta-lessons learned. (Fun fact: One of the persons behind one of the flimsier designs later went on and became an architect ... I was later told, around year 1998, that archs just figure that if the conceptual design doesn't collapse when implemented in a match stick model, it probably won't collapse in the real world either.)

Another lesson, not learned: In the 7th grade, our math teacher decided to set aside two hours to play a game (instead if solving yet another twenty equations of the 7x+2=16 kind). The class is divided into teams of 3. These teams were randomly assigned to be either industrialized countries or undeveloped countries (those were the terms back then). U-countries gets lots of resources in the form of white paper and colored paper. However, they don't get much technology (in the form of pencils, rulers, ...). I-countries only gets a few pages of white paper (no colored paper, the colored paper is the rare/expensive stuff!). But they get all the tech (pencil, ruler+scissor+glue+compass) and way more cash tokens too. The object of the game is to use the paper resources to make paper forms (e.g. a 1x4 piece of white paper = $20, whereas e.g. a 2x2 piece of white paper with a coloured 3" circle glued on top is worth $200). Each team can decide what to produce and how to produce it. They can trade paper with each other. They can trade tools (pencils, glue, etc.). They can even rent it. And for each completed paper form, they can cash it in with the teacher---the teacher would be checking if the final shapes are up to spec. Our team was a U-country. At the end of the day, we pretty much did the China strategy from 1995 to 2015: Used our cash to get our hands on the tech (scissors!) and then translated our resources into cash ASAP and used that cash to buy paper from the remaining U-countries who could no longer get their hands on those precious limited scissors. Result: Highest ROI, 2nd richest country by a small margin (U started lower than I in "networth" so we had more to make up). Lesson learned? None ... but in retrospect. Jeez!!

Of all the years I spent in school, these two exercises stand (in retrospect) head and shoulders above the rest. But in terms of life-lessons I wasn't ready for them.

PS: At the Inst. of Mathematics and Physics I attended for my MSc (equivalent), the party committee (which incidentally was awesome to a degree I never experienced nor heard off at any other university except perhaps some of the legendary MIT pranks/exploits) ran an annual multi-event competition between the professors and the students. The "Friday Bar" was at the 7th/top floor or the physics department. One event in the competition was traditionally to figure out how to use a collection of paper, tape, and paperclips to get a raw egg from the 7th floor down (out the window) to an office (out the window again) on the 6th floor without breaking the egg.

@Dragline - I grew up in a country where fulfilment ranked above all other considerations and achievement was something to be ashamed of. What I learned from that was to run in the other direction or just ignore it whenever I was nominated for some award. Consequentially, I have almost no award to my name which is kinda strange and not very helpful when living in a country where people get and accept awards just for showing up.

[BRUTE]

oooh, anecdotes!

a few years back, brute would regularly play the board game Pandemic. this is a coop game, i.e. all the players cooperate against a game mechanic, a series of 4 viruses that would infect the whole earth. each turn, the viruses spread, and the players have to heal infected humans, research cures, and so on.

in the beginning brute would always think for several minutes which action to take, and strategize with his co-players. what to do? heal a certain city? research a vaccine? prevent a spill? build a new research center, or transportation hub?

after a couple of weeks of playing the game regularly, brute stopped strategizing or even thinking. since all possible moves are positive, and there's a good amount of randomness in the game, brute now has the theory that a strategy of just picking random moves is basically as successful as the best thought-out strategy. the optimal move changes every turn anyway, and long-term strategies are almost useless. there are a few points in the endgame where just lazily walking around the map healing humans would be worse than teaming up to research the last vaccines, but apart from this pretty obvious tactic, it didn't matter.

and lo and behold: even playing almost completely random, thinking less than 5 seconds per his turn, brute's team still won against the viruses the next game.

brute is pretty sure the lesson learned is that his choices are half chance, and so are everybody else's.