Existential depression

[slsdly]

http://sengifted.org/archives/articles/ ... individual

Although an episode of existential depression may be precipitated in anyone by a major loss or the threat of a loss which highlights the transient nature of life, persons of higher intellectual ability are more prone to experience existential depression spontaneously.

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Existential depression is a depression that arises when an individual confronts certain basic issues of existence. Yalom (1980) describes four such issues (or “ultimate concerns”)–death, freedom, isolation and meaninglessness. Death is an inevitable occurrence. Freedom, in an existential sense, refers to the absence of external structure. That is, humans do not enter a world which is inherently structured. We must give the world a structure which we ourselves create. Isolation recognizes that no matter how close we become to another person, a gap always remains, and we are nonetheless alone. Meaninglessness stems from the first three. If we must die, if we construct our own world, and if each of us is ultimately alone, then what meaning does life have?

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Because gifted children are able to consider the possibilities of how things might be, they tend to be idealists. However, they are simultaneously able to see that the world is falling short of how it might be.

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When gifted children try to share these concerns with others, they are usually met with reactions ranging from puzzlement to hostility.

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The reaction of gifted youngsters (again with intensity) to these frustrations is often one of anger.

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Anger that is powerless evolves quickly into depression.

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In such depression, gifted children typically try to find some sense of meaning, some anchor point which they can grasp to pull themselves out of the mire of “unfairness.” Often, though, the more they try to pull themselves out, the more they become acutely aware that their life is finite

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Such concerns are not too surprising in thoughtful adults who are going through mid-life crises. However, it is a matter of great concern when these existential questions are foremost in the mind of a twelve or fifteen year old. Such existential depressions deserve careful attention, since they can be precursors to suicide.

I found this simultaneously interesting and terrifying.

[Ego]

Anger that is powerless evolves quickly into depression.

Angry powerlessness morphs into depression IF we don't realize that we have power over how we react.

[Campitor]

I think existential depression is caused by not living in the present. Plan for the future but live in the moment. Why worry about something that hasn't happened? Better to live life enjoying what is in front of you instead of worrying or obsessing over what hasn't happened yet. Easier said than done but it can be accomplished. Try meditating or doing something fun when those existential pangs arrive. Sooner or later you will train your mind to behave differently and you will arrive at a certain level of inner peace.

[7Wannabe5]

If you behave as though life has meaning, you will not become depressed even if you don't rationally believe that life has meaning.

[ether]

Before tracing depression to existential crisis, make sure all your basic needs are meet: proper diet/exercise, sufficient socialization and intimacy, possessing a basic goal or social purpose, and balanced time management. I've meet a lot of very thoughtful people that can't find happiness and chalk it up to a philosophical idea, but in the end I think it stems from a much more basic level.

[Jean]

Hypocrisy is a key survival ability.
An absence of it is a trait only essential in some very rare situations.

[Ego]

Hypocrisy is a key survival ability.
An absence of it is a trait only essential in some very rare situations.

For weeks now I've been wanting to install a Commando 450 and now you've given me the excuse I needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMITcQUe-9M

You'll know I resorted to the black market when I increase my griping about 600 gallon hamburgers.

http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/20 ... crisy.html

There, I'm feeling better already.

[vexed87]

Great thread, I'll remind myself to come back here the next time I am thinking of doom and gloom! I guess this explains my recent 'prepping' phase...

[GandK]

@slsdly:

I agree with that. I think a lot of "gifted" children are people who ask "why" a lot... I don't think most people make a habit of being curious. Sometimes you don't like the answer you get when you ask "why." You're left with either accepting and living with the negative answer - which to a lot of people is like accepting and living with a splinter - or you can fight to change things, which frequently comes with the awesome side effects of pain and rejection. Either way, you might indeed have been/felt better off if you'd never asked "why" to begin with.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Jean]

@ego
I don't get what you mean. But by hypocrisy, i meant the ability to ignore in youre thoughts a relevant information you're aware of.

[Ego]

Ah, like dragline's foolish consistency. I see.

[subgard]

ether said
Before tracing depression to existential crisis, make sure all your basic needs are meet: proper diet/exercise, sufficient socialization and intimacy, possessing a basic goal or social purpose, and balanced time management. I've meet a lot of very thoughtful people that can't find happiness and chalk it up to a philosophical idea, but in the end I think it stems from a much more basic level.

This.
Alcohol (or other drugs) will make us have a rosier outlook on life for a little while simply because of chemicals in the brain.
Essentially, meditation, social interaction, purpose, etc. are really just the natural ways of triggering the same chemicals in the brain.

[slsdly]

I feel I should clarify. My focus on the article was mostly about children, rather than any indirect application to adulthood today. As the author said, this isn't unusual for what is known as a mid-life crisis. Maybe I'm in a depressive cycle at the moment, but that isn't entirely uncommon this time of year and phase of work project .

For the record, my diet and exercise was reasonable then, as was socialization. Well until I followed the very path seemingly outlined by the article. I thought and wrote a lot about this growing up. Those writings provide confirmation I'm not just rewriting history in my head. The terrifying part: it took me a long time to follow that story arc (and beyond, with my own additions of course -- he doesn't talk too much about the endgame), and here it was laid out in 1-2 pages step-by-step. And it even has a name. Damn.

Rather than putting the gifted children in the same room to do silly exercises for some graduate student's research (i.e. my school), they should have let us discuss the meaning of life. It would have done us some bloody good apparently. Yet another way I feel the school system failed me. In the unlikely event I ever become a father, I'll have to keep this in mind .

[Tyler9000]

"death, freedom (absence of external structure), isolation, and meaninglessness"

Regardless of your personal beliefs, I find it interesting that religion directly addresses all four aspects of existential depression. I can see how the lack thereof may perhaps create a hole that needs to be filled in one way or another.

[jennypenny]

>>Gifted children who feel overwhelmed by the myriad choices of an unstructured world can find a great deal of comfort in studying and exploring alternate ways in which other people have structured their lives.
I wonder if that's why homeschooling can be so successful. Maybe the ability to structure the learning around the gifted child's needs trumps other considerations (like having a 'professional' teacher).


>>We all need to build our own personal philosophy of beliefs and values which will form meaningful frameworks for our lives.
That sounds straight out of a Jim Rohn lecture. I think he said almost that exact thing in How to Have Your Best Year Ever.



To echo Tyler's point, people need to find their tribe to fill those holes. Religion is an obvious tribe, but any [like ERE] will get the job done if it covers the bases. This goes back to that Paul Graham essay that henrik linked to in the identity barriers thread. Maybe 'normal' people's lives get smaller if they label themselves too easily, but the 'gifted' use labels as a way to connect with others? Assuming the gifted child chooses the group thoughtfully, the benefit of identifying with those tribes might outweigh any negatives that Graham mentioned. If nothing else, joining a tribe that provides a spiritual component would teach the child how to connect with others and deal with the inherent problems in gifted children, even if they later decide it isn't for them and seek out alternatives.

[Ego]

It is important to mention that it is not possible to decided to believe something if I don't actually believe it, no matter how much that belief would assuage existential yearnings.

We can make choices that influence our beliefs but we don't control whether we believe.

[jennypenny]

I don't think belief is necessary. I don't think the group has to have a 'supernatural' component, only a spiritual one. Even if it does and the child is skeptical, they can still learn from watching how people connect and support each other, deal with death, find meaning through activities and the carrying on of traditions, and cope with isolation through fellowship.

Civic groups and others like the Scouts and 4H used to accomplish those things. I'm not sure if they still do or still challenge the kids enough to engage a gifted child. The problem is finding good groups that are also appropriate for children and teens, and convincing parents to let their gifted child participate in something so pedestrian compared with activities like SAT prep, piano lessons, and semi-pro athletics.

[Ego]

I don't think belief is necessary. I don't think the group has to have a 'supernatural' component, only a spiritual one.

Meaninglessness stems from the first three. If we must die, if we construct our own world, and if each of us is ultimately alone, then what meaning does life have?

As tyler9000 said, people generally fill in those blanks with God/religion because it provides ready answers. It is the problem The School of Life is trying to address. And Sam Harris's Waking Up.

[jacob]

FWIW, I've decided not to allocate mental resources to the "existential problem"---that seems to have solved it for me---so whenever the "what's the meaning of life" issue pops up I immediately discard it as "inherently unsolvable" and think of something else which is typically far more mundane/live in the moment stuff, like what piece of furniture to build or what seed to plant next. It works for me! Seriously!!!

That's the adult perspective.

As far as kids go, the US solves it a lot better than my native country, by far!

In case anyone got screwed on the gifted dimension, this might bring some comfort
http://prometheussociety.org/cms/index. ... -outsiders

[Dragline]

FWIW, I've decided not to allocate mental resources to the "existential problem"---that seems to have solved it for me---so whenever the "what's the meaning of life" issue pops up I immediately discard it as "inherently unsolvable" and think of something else which is typically far more mundane/live in the moment stuff, like what piece of furniture to build or what seed to plant next. It works for me! Seriously!!!

I thought the answer was "42".