Generational Differences

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SilverElephant
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by SilverElephant » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:31 pm

Dragline wrote:I would not be surprised if elder benefits are reduced or capped in some manner as Gen-X starts retiring en masse, and that a student loan relief act is passed that will come too late for most Gen-Xers.
The current state of affairs in Germany suggest otherwise; at least on the elder benefits part (student loan not being a noticeable issue in Germany, yet). The point is that there's a lot of Gen-Xers just as there's a lot of Baby Boomers; the net effect is that they represent a sizeable chunk of the voting population, which means pretty much every political party panders to them. And all of them feel entitled to a comfortable requirement paid for by the succeeding generations because "they worked hard to build a better future for them". And of course, they did work hard. It's just completely besides the point, as most of us here know.

The net effect is that benefits to the elderly and retired have been steadily increasing. Factoring in the fact that the tip of the retirement wave for those two generations has yet to come leaves me thinking that they will enact enough laws to really suck the younger generations dry to fund their retirements. I assure you they won't blink, and they'll blame us for not getting ahead at the same time. I know plenty of older folks clamoring for their retirement packages and wondering why young people in general are doing so bad.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:40 pm

For amusement, this pretty much epitomizes the relationship between Gen-X and Millennials -- the former talking to the latter. Insert "work", "school", "eat" or any other necessary or practical activity for "sleep":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U08XWOx3XYM

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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:04 pm

This might come in handy with a problem I'm having here at Soyuz Towers. One of my super type-A GenXers is furious because her Millennial neighbor is having loud sex all night. She sent us an email the other day at 4am saying, and I quote, "This is the sixth time tonight. SIX TIMES. THAT'S INSANE!!!! I have to go to work in the morning!"

Maybe I can play this over the PA system.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:42 pm

@Dragline: lol- Reminded me of how I'd come home to find my too-young-to-be-a-father-hipster-ex drinking beer and playing Henry Rollins full blast while caring for our toddler children. When my DS27 was 2, he would thrash about and yell "F*ck" at the top of his lungs if I wouldn't release him from his stroller to run around when we were out and about. Just recalling that phase of my life makes me want to put myself down for a nap.

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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jacob » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:10 pm

Haha ... easiest way to solve 95% such problems is to loudly sing along on/shout something like this every time it happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8AyVhs3gJU

Have fun with it when it happens... feign ignorance when you meet them on the stairway the next day.

Next time, get a top floor condo. Also try banging a broomstick on the ceiling in case the upper one attempts some kind of step-aerobics at 6am in the morning.

PS: Never live in a "vintage" apartment building.
PPS: Get some 30db Howard Leight ear plugs. They'll go a long way!

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cmonkey
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by cmonkey » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:37 am

:lol: :lol: If you get really ballsy, you could really have some fun and play this. I discovered that little nugget of uncomfortableness during one of my long trance/house music adventures at work. Works best with some good sized subs.

One of the biggest reason I wanted a house...

thrifty++
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by thrifty++ » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm

Deadmau5 has some great tracks. I really like the Tiny Dancer remix of Elton John https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZB6tkZXmyY

I had been thinking about going to Burning Man this summer if I end up in North America. I really like the vibe of it but I really dont like the cost of it and the fact that its in a desert. Do any of you North Americans know of a similar Electronic Dance Music festival in North America this summer but with elements of trees/grass/shade/bush/rivers/lakes/beaches etc? Something with a Burning Man vibe but not desert and not somewhere with heaps of bros and hoes. Something more bohemian

Slevin
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Slevin » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:26 pm

thrifty++ wrote:
I had been thinking about going to Burning Man this summer if I end up in North America. I really like the vibe of it but I really dont like the cost of it and the fact that its in a desert. Do any of you North Americans know of a similar Electronic Dance Music festival in North America this summer but with elements of trees/grass/shade/bush/rivers/lakes/beaches etc? Something with a Burning Man vibe but not desert and not somewhere with heaps of bros and hoes. Something more bohemian
You're talking about Electric Forest. I'll be there this summer, so let me know if you end up making it over. And I don't know what the ticket resale looks like - but original price was roughly ~$300 a piece.

Toska2
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Toska2 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:11 pm

Lol. I pm'ed him about that one and Montreal's electronic festival. I figured Montreal is worth going to by itself and short drive to trees.

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Re: Generational Differences

Post by thrifty++ » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:19 pm

Thanks Slevin and Toska. I will check out electric forrest. As it so happens if I am in North Am I will be in Montreal more or less the entire time so that is convenient to your suggestions!

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cmonkey
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by cmonkey » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:26 pm

Slevin wrote:You're talking about Electric Forest.
DW went to Electric Daisy in Orlando last November with a friend who won free tickets to it. She had a pretty good time.

Deadmau5 is pretty great but I prefer Armin Van Buuren and Tiesto style mixes. I could listen to A State of Trance for hours and hours. Even the DW enjoys it quite oddly enough.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:04 am

An interview with Howe from last summer. He discusses whether it's an American phenomenon @45-50. (spoiler --- it's not)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNOAZ44PwhY

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:18 pm

Great interview.

An older Gen-X household will be either "Dollar Store or Restoration Hardware." This is quite true. Gen-X has huge winners and losers and relatively few in the middle. The anger and bitterness on the lower end is palpable.

Immigration and fertility data is great -- completely contrary to popular delusions about what is happening.

I also like it when he refuted the idea that the "economy" is forcing generations to come back together in multi-generational families. Millennials with jobs living with parents saving money and getting along well with each other.

"Millennials as young adults have been responsible for the most dramatic decline in youth violence in American history."

I'm still wondering where the boundary is between the Ms and the Homeland Generation. My '98 son is definitely a Millennial, but I'm not sure about the '01. These things are mushy on the edges.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:12 am

Dragline said: An older Gen-X household will be either "Dollar Store or Restoration Hardware." This is quite true. Gen-X has huge winners and losers and relatively few in the middle. The anger and bitterness on the lower end is palpable.
I wonder. The above struck me because the last time I heard the words "Restoration Hardware", they were coming out of the mouth of my somewhat older, much, much, more financially affluent lover as he was describing some aspect of the major home renovation he is supervising as he was lying next to me on my $12 homemade futon-lol.

It seems to me that people generally feel bitter anger or resentment in situations where results or reality does not meet or match their expectations, often due to semi-conscious engagement in covert contract. I have an odd perspective on generational differences and aging because I am demographically out of sync in a way that makes me simultaneously younger and older than most of my peers. This is because I became a "household" when I was 22 and I stopped being a "household" when I was 48 (because my DD24 became financially independent.) My 61 year old lover is still very much a "household." In addition to shopping for stuff at Restoration Hardware, his time is filled with tasks such as "putting together furniture for his mother-in-law who just moved out of his house into an assisted living facility" and "going to court to because 21 year old stepson got busted for DUI" and "helping 30-something daughter buy a new used car" in addition to full-time job, commute, helping run a non-profit, trying to hit the gym. OTOH, my other lover who is 51 (same age as me) hasn't ever even been a "household" yet. Never married, just bought his first home around 5 years ago, and he still wants to have kids. Another different example of a "household" would be Mr. and Mrs. Ego who have been married for a long time but no kids. Or my 41 year old sister who is a very successful Gen-Xer by some standards, and lives with her 48 year old boyfriend and his 16 year old daughter from previous relationship in a very small apartment in a very, very expensive neighborhood in Brooklyn, but they wouldn't be a "household" for tax purposes because they are not legally married.

I suppose the points I am attempting to make are that "household" has always been a fairly dubious economic construct and it is becoming more and more so, the freedom/ability to shop at "Restoration Hardware" vs. "Dollar Store" is a rather limited, rather linear degree or scope of freedom, and the perspective of most Gen-X right now on what their future may hold is likely very different than the perspective they will have once they experience the major life events of "death of parents" and "empty nest." I am such an old youngster, I can even speak from my experience and relate that the day you send your last kid off to college is not really empty nest. Empty nest is when you sent your last kid off to college over 7 years ago, so you have grown a whole new skin since that day, and you realize you are still likely going to live another 35 years. Although overall divorce rates have dropped in recent years, there are currently record-high rates of 60-something year old boomers choosing to end very long-term marriages because they suddenly realized that they weren't going to die yet, or even very soon.

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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jacob » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:52 am


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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:23 pm

Funny. I woke this morning and began listing to the Howe interview. Getting past the intro was a challenge but I made it. At about ten minutes in I clicked on "reply" and began typing this....


I have just made an executive decision. I have (delusionally) decided after listing to the (beginning of) that interview that from this point forward I am going to be a Silent Millennial. Age is just a number, right? :D


But then I got interrupted and just now came back to it to find a very similar response.
7Wannabe5 wrote:I have an odd perspective on generational differences and aging because I am demographically out of sync in a way that makes me simultaneously younger and older than most of my peers.
Last night we had dinner with an Xer couple who we hadn't seen in years. He had become a conspiracy theorist, in part because life had thrown him a series of curveballs, sliders and fastballs when he had only been taught to catch underhanded softballs. There was zero adaptation. Only anger, bitterness, and a snarling yet bewildered resentment. Doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different result.....

In his defense, he is a genius who suffers from this....
https://youtu.be/BQ6IcUoXpzU?t=15m (start at 15:00min to 16:40min)

So, from now on I ask, in true Millennial fashion, that you respect my self-identity as a Silent Millennial, regardless of my age. Is there a rule against joining a different generation?

Now back to the Howe interview.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:43 pm

Typical sloppy/uninformed analysis from MSM/Salon -- they always get confused by starting that Gen in 1964 instead of 1961. Obama is in fact a pro-to Xer. But to be successful, all Gen-x politicians have to appeal to Boomers and/or Millennials. This is what Rubio and Cruz are doing (with the conservative Boomers), although Cruz actually sweeps up some more Gen-X people too.

Howe has been saying for over a decade that the people born in the early 60s are the most conservative living cohort, so I would not expect them to suddenly change their stripes. Salon is engaged in a lot of wishful thinking there.

I agree that Cory Booker is priming himself to run either in 2020 if Republicans win this year or 2024 if not. He's pretty much running a more careful version of the whole Obama political career playbook, including writing a couple books himself. But the liberal Gen-Xers are fewer in number (and mostly younger) and are generally waiting their turn like the Republicans used to do when their establishment controlled their party.

@Ego -- I have friends like that, too. Many very jaded and suspicious people who have difficulty dealing with life's failures, especially when they see a few others around them with less talent who have succeeded in a big way.

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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:26 pm

Dragline wrote:@Ego -- I have friends like that, too. Many very jaded and suspicious people who have difficulty dealing with life's failures, especially when they see a few others around them with less talent who have succeeded in a big way.
I wonder if they are angry because they allowed themselves to be shown what success looks like rather than defining it for themselves. By contorting into someone else's vision of success, then getting twisted into knots, they're furious for being duped into "doing everything they were supposed to do".

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.” ― Dalai Lama

enigmaT120
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by enigmaT120 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:25 pm

Dragline wrote:Typical sloppy/uninformed analysis from MSM/Salon -- they always get confused by starting that Gen in 1964 instead of 1961. Obama is in fact a pro-to Xer. But to be successful, all Gen-x politicians have to appeal to Boomers and/or Millennials. This is what Rubio and Cruz are doing (with the conservative Boomers), although Cruz actually sweeps up some more Gen-X people too.
I've never read a definitive date for the start of Gen X, so I've been confused, too. Ted Rall calls me (and himself) a Gen Xer, both born in 63. But until then I thought I was a late Boomer, as well as a late bloomer.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:32 pm

enigmaT120 wrote:
Dragline wrote:Typical sloppy/uninformed analysis from MSM/Salon -- they always get confused by starting that Gen in 1964 instead of 1961. Obama is in fact a pro-to Xer. But to be successful, all Gen-x politicians have to appeal to Boomers and/or Millennials. This is what Rubio and Cruz are doing (with the conservative Boomers), although Cruz actually sweeps up some more Gen-X people too.
I've never read a definitive date for the start of Gen X, so I've been confused, too. Ted Rall calls me (and himself) a Gen Xer, both born in 63. But until then I thought I was a late Boomer, as well as a late bloomer.
Strauss & Howe who were/are the expert historians of this stuff and wrote all the books about it start Generation X at 1961, because its supposed to encompass people to have the same experience growing up and be keyed just prior to major societal events that they would not remember as really small children -- here the assassination of JFK and the cultural shift that happened in 1963-1965. They also date the Boomers from 1942-1961 for the same reason (key event victory in WWII).

The 1965 date is used mostly by marketers because there were still a lot of babies being born in the early sixties. But it really does not work for this kind of analysis because people born in 1961/62 usually have way more in common with someone born later in the 60s than someone born in the late 50s. Everything makes a lot more sense if you use the right dates.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:10 pm

Douglas Coupland was born in 1961. I think another reason why I feel out-of-sync is that because I was an early bloomer, I've been intermittently dating Boomer men for the last 36 years. They were everywhere when I was young and there are still so many of them. So, it's like at the age of 51, I am still jail-bait on the dating market. Thirty years from now, I'll probably be tottering along on my way to my garden minding my own business, and some 90 year old will drive by blasting Steppenwolf from his golf cart and yelling "Hey Baby, you got any fries to go with that shake?"

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Re: Generational Differences

Post by George the original one » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:24 pm

Being born in '62, I've always considered myself to be a Boomer due to the '64 or '65 cutoff. And, for myself, Boomer-hood is likely to be true because my parents were married before WWII whereas most of the Gen-X parents are post-WWII marriages. Plus my siblings are all older... heck, my oldest brother was born during WWII, so he's not even a Boomer!

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GandK
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by GandK » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:28 am

Ego wrote:I wonder if they are angry because they allowed themselves to be shown what success looks like rather than defining it for themselves. By contorting into someone else's vision of success, then getting twisted into knots, they're furious for being duped into "doing everything they were supposed to do".
Yes. I have a couple of these in my extended family. Not only are they bitter about having "followed the rules" and not achieved what they had accepted as success, they're hostile to anyone who didn't follow those same rules yet seems to be "ahead" in spite of this (where "ahead" equals wealthier). I have been an occasional target of this hostility. Specifically, I am a college dropout who achieved STEM success in a family full of higher academics. I'm sure you can all see the problem... to some of them, I cheated and my success doesn't count. It's on par with winning the lottery and is equally admirable. I'm also not intelligent because I didn't finish my degree, a lazy bum for retiring early, and a highly dangerous and anti-social human being for advocating alternative non-college life paths to certain of the family's teenagers. I would probably attend to their scorn if they were happy and I was not, but I find it's the reverse. Another source of frustration, I'm sure. It hurts to be looked down upon by my own family, I admit, but I can't fix that sort of prejudice.

Laura Ingalls
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Laura Ingalls » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:52 pm

Jenny thanks for the Howe link. I think it points out a fair amount of generational privilage that the silent generation and (early) boomer generation like to ignore just like most white people ignore white privilage.

@ GandK
I have the same issues with a sibling but we both have advanced degrees :o . What is different is that mine gave me credentials for a specific job that pays decent and his was near worthless. I also think he fails to understand the impact of marrying a semi-frugal person that loves to invest vs marrying a semi-spendthrift hyper consumer.

Anyway same whinny. I did it right but I still haven't been annointed an upper middle class life.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:17 am

Recent short interview with Howe. He talks about what Sanders and Trump have in common, how Xers are dealing with the economy by cutting costs and downsizing, and some investment tips at the end.

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