Generational Differences

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:36 am

A recent Peak Prosperity podcast with Neil Howe. The comparisons between today and the '30's are disturbing.

If you've never read the Fourth Turning, Howe does a concise recap of the concept at the beginning of the podcast.

Did
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Did » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:32 am

A whole lot of banter here. On the competition thing, it's easy to be all for it when you're the guy who finishes first. My school was like that. I came out fine, but I don't think I was the better person for it. I actually think for most people a less intense school would be better. There is no need to compete at their silly games: that's the idea isn't it. Escape the rat race, whoever sets the rules. Why shouldn't the below average intelligence rat have an excellent life, and feel good about himself? That's part of the appeal of ERE, I think. They can, even if they're not Tim Ferris. That guy is ultra competitive. He wants to be the richest, the fittest, the sexiest, the loudest. No matter what he wrote when he was 25. ERE types just want to be left alone.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:56 am

A recent article on The Art of Manliness about the Strauss-Howe Generational Theory ...
The Generations of Men: How the Cycles of History Shape Your Values, Your Idea of Manhood, and Your Future

I thought the section on whether millennials can be the next hero generation was interesting. From that section, "While it is often said that Millennials are “idealistic,” this is perhaps a projection from Boomer parents who tried to instill this value in their kids; while Millennials do want meaningful jobs, they value “being financially secure” higher than other generations. They also place more importance on getting married, having kids, and being a leader in their community than Boomers and Gen X-ers do."

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Chad
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Chad » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:20 am

An interesting side note to the generational change theme is in movies. Currently there appears to be a growing backlash against dark serious movies. Specifically, against movies that take an iconic character and make them darker and more serious. I'm pulling this from the comments on various Sci-Fi and nerd blogs I follow. There was a rather large group of people who disliked the new Superman movie (Man of Steel) because it was too dark. This criticism even included his actual Superman outfit. "Not enough color" were in a lot of comments.

Criticism of this movie type seems to have increased with the upcoming Batman vs. Superman and the new X-Men movie. I have seen complaints that the Batman vs. Superman is too dark and that people are happy some of the X-Men are ditching the black leather suits for more comic inspired and colored suits (which could get absurd if they go too far).

I don't entirely agree, which isn't surprising given my Gen Xness. I have disliked Superman forever. He is too good, too unrealistic, and too powerful (no villain can possibly threaten him, so boring stories). However, I was ok with the movie. I guess the slight darkness, and it is slight, made the Gen X in me more tolerant of a character I dislike.

Another demonstration of my Gen Xness is that I never thought the X-Men movies went dark enough with Wolverine or Storm.

All of this seems to match the Strauss and Howe model. Of course, there is always the danger this is just a more advanced horoscope "prediction" that is more entertaining than fact.

@Jenny
I find it interesting how much you seem to like the Art of Manliness considering your staunch feminism. Of course, the site/podcast by no means talks down to women and has decent content, so maybe not a huge surprise. Maybe just the initial time risk of trying out the site is where it's surprising. :)

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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:26 am

Chad wrote:Of course, there is always the danger this is just a more advanced horoscope "prediction" that is more entertaining than fact.
@Chad, that's it! Each time I hear Howe speak with such conviction about generational characteristics I get the exact same feeling as when someone asks my zodiac sign then nods knowingly. I didn't realize it until I read what you wrote.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:04 am

Why are you guys assuming that horoscopes aren't for real??

@Chad--What’s not to love about AofM? They do some cool stuff on that site. I prefer men's sites because *in general* men’s sites are more about doing things and women’s sites are more about being/looking a certain way or discussing the latest issue to worry about. I also read AofM because I’m raising two boys--most of the time by myself--and I want to do a good job of it.

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Chad
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Chad » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:24 am

My numerology belief tells me horoscopes can't be real!

@Ego
Yeah, Strauss and Howe do sometimes sound like horoscope predictions, but so does Myers-Briggs. I do think Strauss/Howe and Myers-Briggs actually have validity, as opposed to horoscopes. Though, I kind of view those theories like they are herding cats. Sometimes those theories can be very right and can even be useful to predict certain broader themes, but it's never going to be a smooth obvious prediction. These theories are imprecise.

@Jenny
I agree. I just saw this as a small interesting quirk. The Art of Manliness may do themselves no favors by supposedly being male focused. The site, as you suggested, is very broad and not overly male.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:51 am

@Chad--I think you nailed my quirk. What AofM promotes as 'manliness' I just see as being a capable person. I wonder if that means I should move to Idaho. What's the phrase? "Where the men are men, and the women are, too." or something like that.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:23 pm

Lake Wobegon, Minnesota is where "all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above-average."

oldbeyond
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by oldbeyond » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:37 pm

Here in Sweden, the general sentiment seems to been one of contempt for overly ambitious young yuppie-types that care only for their careers material gain and are obsessed about competing in various races. The communitarian citizen of old, with his passion for equality and the common good, is lamented as a dying breed. It's an interesting contrast.

To be fair there is quite a bit of talk about young people being adrift, getting useless degrees or becoming baristas etc, too.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:00 am

Here's another recent Howe broadcast about generations and current trends in a number of different areas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxWPzgKQH7Y

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:11 pm

Dragline wrote:Here's another recent Howe broadcast about generations and current trends in a number of different areas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxWPzgKQH7Y
What was that call? Does he do it often?

I thought his comments about GenX parenting during the Q & A were interesting. His comment after that about the potential for a crash of up to 40% to revert back to normal profit v. salary levels was a little scary.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:18 pm

I have no idea what the purpose of the call was. I just subscribe to the YouTube feed "Life Course Associates" and occasionally something shows up. He is not a reliable or consistent, foolish or otherwise, producer of content.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:05 am

Recent interview with Howe. (transcript from ZH) Economic analysis, pseudo-predictions, some politics, and then some generational stuff at the end. Not optimistic, but no mention of a crash. Of course, he tends to avoid that kind of rhetoric.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:14 am

Howe has a new affiliation with "Hedgeye", which posts regularly on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG_tZ_WnHCg

His points that most new earners/savers would be best off with some kind of a crash right now, Millennials have the highest savings rates for their age and the elderly are sitting pretty are interesting.

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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:49 am

He talks about some interesting themes here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOXuQrf9Ih0

-Blue collar Boomers are "retiring" on disability in massive numbers
-Gen-X bolstered its numbers with immigrants. Those immigrants are no longer coming because family size has plummeted in Latin America.
-The vacuum of Democratic Gen-Xers. He calls us DIY Republicans and explains why Trump's message resonates with Gen-Xers.
-Parallels between today and the 1930s
-Multi-generational family living
-Millennial bring your parent to work week..... hah!

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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:18 am

Top GOP Pollster: Young Americans Are Terrifyingly Liberal

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/24/top ... y-liberal/

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GandK
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by GandK » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:14 am

Ego wrote:Top GOP Pollster: Young Americans Are Terrifyingly Liberal

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/24/top ... y-liberal/
That article was in no way eyebrow-raising to me until I got to this:
35 percent of 18- to 26-year-olds, including 42 percent of 18- to 21-year-olds, said they considered themselves more a citizen of the world than of the U.S.

In response to the question, “Which type of political system do you think is the most compassionate?”, 58 percent said socialism and 9 percent said communism. Just 33 percent chose capitalism. Sixty-six percent of the poll’s respondents said corporate America “embodies everything that is wrong about America.”

Finally, more young Americans declared that the “most pressing issue facing America today” is income inequality than anything else. Income inequality was followed by education — specifically its cost.

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Chad
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:28 am

This has been the trend for a while and will probably continue to build. People in NYC, London, etc. have more in common in many cases than people in Little Rock do with NYC, SF, LA, DC, etc.

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:12 pm

Yes, don't be surprised if the dominant mono-culture of the 20s and 30s future looks like a generous helping of the ideas of Bernie Sanders tempered with the seasoning of Ron Paul. Like I mentioned in the other thread, a lot of Gen-Xers are going to be pretty bitter about the whole thing.

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Ego
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Ego » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:19 pm

Dragline wrote: Like I mentioned in the other thread, a lot of Gen-Xers are going to be pretty bitter about the whole thing.
Why bitter? About the taxes? I would guess we would be the beneficiaries of this new socialism, no?

I'm sitting here watching a GenX-dad move his daughter into an apartment for which he may have co-signed and paid the security deposit. Last week he probably moved his mother into Soylent Towers after co-signing and paying the security deposit there too. When the Millennial-bulge finds themselves sandwiched like this guy, they'll probably vote for someone else to pay, don't you think?

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Dragline
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by Dragline » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:27 pm

I would not be surprised if elder benefits are reduced or capped in some manner as Gen-X starts retiring en masse, and that a student loan relief act is passed that will come too late for most Gen-Xers.

Certain populations -- likely white men born in the 1960s, who are the most conservative living cohort -- may feel completely disenfranchised. There may never be a Gen-X president elected after Obama, who merely sits on the cusp of Boomer/Xer. I would guess for a Kennedy-esqe Millennial candidate in 2024, possibly with a Silicon Valley-type pedigree or a minority/female that is former military. But you never know.

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jennypenny
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by jennypenny » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:43 pm

Dragline wrote:I would not be surprised if elder benefits are reduced or capped in some manner as Gen-X starts retiring en masse, and that a student loan relief act is passed that will come too late for most Gen-Xers.
I can easily see Millennials implementing a universal basic income, with one of the selling points being that it would replace SSI.

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BRUTE
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Re: Generational Differences

Post by BRUTE » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:00 pm

brute thinks there will be a huge generational clash between boomers and gen-x-ers. just because the math doesn't work out.

brute thinks (hopes? can a machine hope?) that one morning boomers will look into their mailbox and instead of a social security check, there will be a letter saying "sorry pops, you spent it all".

brute 100% identifies with the "citizen of the world" thing. he has left and it doesn't feel like a vacation.

not to conjure ayn rand here, but most humans brute knows who have the economic choice think along similar lines. they're more mobile than high frequency trade capital. when the going gets tough back home, they will leave, and they'll take their income and their capital with them.

social security could be milked when the cows couldn't flee the farm. now the cows have wings.

if brute sounds bitter, that's because he is. if the little old lady wanted to be taken care of by brute, the little old lady should've done something to deserve it when she had the chance.

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Re: Generational Differences

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:30 am

Yup, that's why I invest some time each week leading lots of tiny immigrants in saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

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