ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

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Hankaroundtheworld
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ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

Not sure if anyone is investing in this new domain of Blockchain Apps and Smart Contracts, it looks like the 90's when Internet was hot and many new Internet companies were funded based on (sometimes thin) business plans, but now we have the new version of this in the form of de-centralized consensus networks for any transaction (like bitcoin or any other altcoin) or business logic (smart contracts). Especially around Ethereum (smart contract network), a new eco-system of Apps is started, each with their own Token, launched via ICO's (initial coin offering). This is really exploding now in 2017, almost every months new Apps with new Tokens are launched, and people almost blindly invest in this (similar to the 90's). It has not reached its full craziness yet, probably in a few years time.

Anyway, it is interesting, and for sure something good will come from it, besides many failures (which is logic with bubbles). I tried with Bitcoin and Ether (ETH, from Ethereum) sofar since 2016, and it reached 300% profit so far, indeed crazy!

What do you think? Just a normal hype / bubble, or something special in the making? Are we going to tokenize the world?

Dragline
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Dragline »

I don't know. I understand the basic technology, but am pretty ignorant about the market for it is. And there seem to be some legal road-blocks that might prevent widespread adoption in bigger markets. Notably, China keeps changing its rules and the US SEC recently blocked a proposed Bitcoin ETF. Weirdly, I think Venezuela is still a hot-bed of Bitcoin mining due to really cheap electricity in unused factories.

Still, I imagine some will make a killing and some will get killed. If Silk Road was the block-chain equivalent of Napster file-sharing, what's next? I feel like some big boy like Amazon needs to step up to the plate like Apple stepped up with Itunes.

jacob
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by jacob »

I think it will take more than a big boy corporation. I think it will take at least one national government and preferably a big one (not just maybe Iceland). Compare to Krugerrands or US greenbacks in the internationa domain. The powers (national entities) that be have material force to prevent this. Imagine 1040 line something-teen: "List market value and account of any virtual currency subject to a six figure fine if not reported". This is already how FATCA (not to be confused with FACTA) works.

BRUTE
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by BRUTE »

the big win for blockchain isn't even in Bitcoin - that's more of a proof of concept for commercial players. almost all big US banks are developing their own internal blockchain solutions.

blockchains in the current state are actually much better suited for "eventually" settling transactions (within ~1 day) than instantaneous. their strength is in the combination of decentralization and consistency in an asynchronous data store. this is exactly what banks need in their intra- and inter-bank ledgers.

bryan
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by bryan »

I haven't look too deeply in these specific aspects, but most seem illegal (and not meeting regulatory standards) or probable scams. Of course that doesn't preclude you from making $$$ from them...

Otherwise one could search the forums for my opinions on the matter. Not a big fan of what I've seen w/ ICOs or existing smart contracts. I dislike ethereum but still own some since it is one of the big contenders and a lot of engineering time is spent there. I don't see ethereum sticking around once Bitcoin tech allows for wide-use of useful smart contracts.

I do like the idea of letting a hundred flowers bloom, though. I don't have anything against app coins or the like.. it would be pretty great if there were better ways of exchanging different types of coins, though.

There are lots of whitepapers and a lot of them are trash.. even the ones that look interesting and novel have some errors or assumptions that will make you squirm away from putting much of your money into the inevitable coin that is tied to the paper.

The last year hasn't been great for Bitcoin, and has tempered my specific enthusiasm there a bit. I still love digital money and digital/smart contracts but we'll see if the tech can continue to improve and live up to expectations.

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

Thanks all for the reactions, and I agree, this is not about Bitcoin, but about "any kind of business logic" that would profit from consensus via blockchains. Of course, like @bryan hinted at, what Blockchain environment will win? I do not think it is Bitcoin, as innovation slows down because of Mining power and struggles. You basically need a "community" around a Blockchain that allows innovation-iterations to run more quickly, as this is all still very early stage, and needs to crystallize further. I also have been reading many of these "white papers", and I agree, they look like nice ideas but not thought-thru properly (no firm business plan on how to make it a reality), but that is only a sign of early eagerness (and sometimes greed), as the Hype is increasing. After the Hype heights, you can follow the normal Hype-cycle till it becomes established business with some clear winners. I "feel" that has enormous potential, so will track it. By the way, if you do not like Ethereum, there is an alternative in the making, aeternity. And the story continues :-)

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

In the meantime, the craziness is accelerating. ETH (Ether from Ethereum) went up from 40 USD to 80 USD in just a week. The valuation of all Crypto is now in an exponential curve.... For the brave investor (that likes to gamble), it is an interesting time! A replay of the Internet gold-rush of 90's

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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Solvent »

Well, I'm not, because I know nowhere near enough about it.
However, I've also learnt to keep my trap shut. Reason being, I seem to recall back in 2013 or so advising a friend against converting money to bitcoin because I considered it to be pretty well overhyped (I did not consider it a scam, although that was a popular opinion at the time). Now I don't know for sure, having not discussed money matters with him directly, but I suspect he went on to reap a fairly significant windfall from it. A few years back I also got to know a guy, briefly, who made bank by getting in on the early days of one of the alternative electronic currencies. He used the capital to create his own day trading business and spends about half a year or so, each year, in Europe. This was a guy not long out of uni, in his twenties.

Anyway... I guess what I'm saying is I try to restrain myself these days from advising people to avoid taking risks on new things. Even though I'm pretty risk averse myself.

I know enough about the technology to be pretty confident that the whole blockchain thing will find a lot of uses, but the details of them are mostly beyond my ken.

bryan
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by bryan »

Looks like one of my posts here was lost in the forum migration. Was this link: http://www.coindesk.com/appcoin-law-par ... right-way/

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

bryan wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 4:16 pm
Looks like one of my posts here was lost in the forum migration. Was this link: http://www.coindesk.com/appcoin-law-par ... right-way/
Interesting indeed, I guess, this decentralization approach and related ICO based funding is going against the normal practices, so Law has to catch-up. I think, in Europe, many companies register in Swiss or Liechtenstein, probably because the law is more friendly over there for these new type of companies that use Tokens.

Interesting developments for sure

bryan
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by bryan »

and the Republic of Panama.. WARNING WARNING.

But it could still be a good way to make some money.. just do the research.

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

I hope you ride this exceptional wave that is going on in Crypto market: Ethereum (ETH / Ether) is about to pass 200 USD today, it was 10 USD a half year ago .... 20 times . This craziness does not happen often, and yes I know, some heavy correction will happen eventually, but the Hype has not yet reached mass-market, so I am going to ride this wave a bit further. It is almost a daily show seeing your values go up and up !!

JamesR
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by JamesR »

It's easy to get caught up with the whole speculation & gold rush vibe of cryptocurrencies. The volatility is definitely on the scary side of things, but this doesn't mean it's not worth buying & holding some for the long term.

There's real technology behind these cryptocurrencies, they have been implemented in a variety of different ways and offer different value propositions. There's a Cambrian explosion happening right now. Many new varieties will die off in the next 5-10 years, or in less time. The ones that stay around will be the big winners and become widely used, perhaps behind the scenes as investment vehicles and smart contracts.

We can classify the coins by their encryption scheme (sha-256, Scrypt, etc). By proof of work, proof of stake, proof of storage, or no proof at all (bank coins). By transparency (bitcoin & co), anonymity (monero), contract-based (ethereum), bank-based (ripple), etc. more classifications here i suppose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cryptocurrencies

I guess if anyone wants to buy and hold without too much thinking, they could just pick the top 5-10 cryptocurrencies currently based on their capitalization & volume and just buy some of each and wait a few years and see where they're at then. Can just buy through coinbase or poloniex or bitfinex.

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

I agree, the volatility (and perhaps uncertainty) hold me off in 2016 to go "big" into it (of course, in hindsight, that was wrong), but once you make a profit (virtual, only becomes real when you sell off) that you start to feel more comfortable to try out more. I basically take out the money that i invested initially and only play with the profits (and invest in new ICO's). It feels like a nice side-hobby (max 30min a day), and if it brings more profit, it is a nice plus, and if you lose it, no harm done.

Dragline
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Dragline »

All of this reminds me of Isaac Newton speculating in shares of the South Seas company. First he made a killing and could have walked away. Then he jumped back in with an even larger investment and lost his shirt.

http://www.businessinsider.com/isaac-ne ... ock-2016-1

Still, I hope some of you make a killing and get out while the getting's good.

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

I took out the initial investment and play with the profit, that will keep it controlled. Certainly not going for the "greed" mode by investing more.

BRUTE
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by BRUTE »

at this point, there is basically no initial investment left. it's all profit.

frihet
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by frihet »

Took a free ride and profits yesterday in bitcoin buying physical gold in Singapore. A good excuse to go there some day and get some country diversification.

Just wished I listened to my brother and bought more ethereum that ride has been insane.

Raoul Pal of realvision just sold out because he believed the facts have changed. He's been in since $200

https://twitter.com/RaoulGMI/status/866704511070588928

Part of the tipping point for me. But mostly the chart just looks a bit bubbleish ;) . Feels good to limit the risk and let the free money ride.

Chad
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Chad »

We are probably getting close to the top when major non-financial news services are talking about the money made in something obscure:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on- ... 7970809f4a

It doesn't qualify as a cover of a non-financial publication indicator, but it's getting close.

An example of how blockchain could be used:

http://fortune.com/2017/04/27/estonia-d ... -startups/

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: ICO Gold-rush -- Tokenize the world via Blockchain & Smart Contracts

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

Probably true, I thought we are 2 years ahead of "mass-market" adoption, but it is going faster. Although we need to realize that only in the beginning of 2017 the real explosion of Alt-coins and Smart Contract networks happened (at least explosion in valuation), so the real duration of this bubble is still short, and I do not think it has reached its peak. I do hear around me that people are starting to look into Bitcoin (the 1st step often), once this happens in a big scale (population wise), and we get TV shows talking about it in a regular way, then .... better to step out and wait for correction.

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