Early Retirement Extreme Forums

BRUTE wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:07 am

jennypenny wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:00 am

I'm available if someone's looking for a sugar momma. PM me a current pic and list any special talents.

---->

talents: can hold breath for a long time

I can hold my breath and hop on one foot.

Sclass said: My extended family is polluted by these long term dalliances. Rent to own is a bad option IMHO. Things are very complicated now for me and my half siblings.

THe men in my family who do this have it down to a science. It's like employment. If you pay too much they will leave. If you pay too little they'll leave. They have played it that way till the eve of their deaths. Now we have a bunch of nervous hang arounds trying to jockey for "guarantees ". It's sick.

Right, but if you flow chart all the other options from the perspectives of all of the participants in the system, what do you arrive at? For better or worse, I have been in almost every position on the field at some point in my life. I even had a brief relationship with a man who was 12 years younger than me, had been laid off from his engineering position, and wanted some of my insight into starting his own business. I knew it wouldn't work, but he finally got me with "I think you are pretty AND cool." In spite of repeated attempts to alter my behavior in the direction of role models such as KashDoll or Cokie Roberts, my extreme core dorky-ness prevents me from maintaining the posture of "the cool one" for more than about 5 minutes. Also, the business we were going to start together was based on one of my more whimsical ideas which was the production and marketing of hypa-tufa porch-ornament animals which would be like concrete geese, but for people who didn't live in rural trailer parks. So, he dumped me for a bartender with a very assertive manner who was a couple years younger than him.

Anyways, I think when you communicate "rent to own" is a bad option, this is because it is kind of like choosing to robot invest in an index fund. Taleb said you should always "lease" the 3 Fs, not "rent to own" them. The funny thing is that I am obviously always looking out for my own self-interest when I am in relationship, but I also tend towards not respecting men who don't look out for their own self-interest too. I mean, I am a super-great person who can sometimes behave in a charming manner, so I can grok why somebody might fall madly in love with me, but if he started throwing his money, or other resources, recklessly in my direction, then that is just like a man who can't handle his liquor. So, bit of a Catch-22.

I am supposed to meet with my older, married, quite affluent, ex-polyamour who is still madly in love with me this afternoon. My current BF who is closer to my age and financial peer (3 vs. 11 years difference, 6 digits not 7) and not madly in love with me, once "kept" a much younger woman when he was working overseas for a couple years, so he just laughed and said "Of course, he wants to get back with a sweet, young thing like you. Is he going to leave his wife?" Since many years ago, I was also in the role of the wife in an egalitarian relationship with a husband who was considering a dalliance with a younger woman, I believe that it may cause the teeth of many of my "sisters" to gnash when I reveal that on my second date with this man, he said something like "Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that I make a great deal more money than you, and my wife also earns a very good income, so I would like to offer to pick up the bill for any expenses involved in our relationship." I am in one of my more Nihilist moods today, so I am trying to think up some demand that is completely outrageous, since making myself look ugly and communicating curt-dismissive didn't work. I was a bit in love with him, so I have to use some caution.

What it comes down to is how are you ever going to stop a monkey from using any tool it has at hand to get the piece of fruit that it wants?

Why make up demands? If you don't want a relationship with him say "No."

@enigmaT120: Curse of the ENTP. Ambivalence. He looks and acts like a buff Paul Newman, and he adores me. Also, it's kind of harder to say "No" to somebody who practices polyamory because they are willing to re-frame the relationship so many ways. I guess I kinds sorta agreed to do things as a friend with him. Anyways, I said "No" to sex in relationship with two very attractive men this month. That is like gold star level impulse control for me. Maybe I am becoming a Stoic!

7Wannabe5 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:04 am

Anyways, I think when you communicate "rent to own" is a bad option, this is because it is kind of like choosing to robot invest in an index fund. Taleb said you should always "lease" the 3 Fs, not "rent to own" them.

You're right. I'm looking at it from my point of view. There are a lot of parties involved and it has become the source of survival for a small tribe of people around me. I have to deal with the headache. I actually was thinking about Taleb but I didn't want to use Fs.

What I was trying to say is I've seen this play out with the same hosts and symbiotes for decades. They are not bouncy young sugar babies anymore.

Nobody is really happy either though they all ran off into these relationships with reckless abandonment.

@Sclass: Right, maybe your position is similar to that of the manager of a football team with two quarterbacks who are 36 and 37, or the CFO of a software company with two lead programmers who are 26 and 27

Seriously, I think this is another, should have been predictable, symptom of the decline of the middle-class. We're becoming a culture of the affluent and the not-affluent, and affluent older men have always and everywhere been inclined towards taking on sugar babies, second wives, second "wives", mistresses, concubines, girlfriend-experience-escorts etc. Three things that are new would be the ease of using the internet when seeking such relationships or arrangements, the availability of effective birth control, and the fact that many affluent men are achieving their affluence working in tandem in egalitarian relationship with a female who has her own career. And that middle-aged female who is locked in dual-career affluent-lifestyle partnership with her husband is likely no longer a bouncy young bit of sugar herself anymore. That's why it rarely makes good economic sense to commit to a financially egalitarian relationship with a man. Disney Princess movies and Bride magazine are remnants of propaganda from an age when females were not granted full legal status and privileges as individuals.

7- you nailed it. No smiley needed. I was brought in to maintain order. Ironically I am also the member of the family that openly objected to this behavior when I was younger. I ended up running away. And now I'm back. Too much time on my hands. And proven money management skills. How did I get here? Something to do with rescuing my mom who didn't really want to be rescued.

It gets way worse. Bizarre stuff. But it is basically the result of male and female monkeys with sticks that work. Money and sex.

Nobody is thinking about the fallout. This crap has been going on way too long in my tribe. I literally share more DNA in common with my half sister than my full sister. Sick.

7- I get it. (Kind of, your posts are too deep for me sometimes). It's the man and woman's fault. And is it a fault? From what point of view? My step and half siblings and cousins are certainly surviving and breeding.

I could see it as a form of generational wealth transfer. I married a woman 17 years older than me, and while I certainly wasn't a sugar baby ( I supported her!) she had a house which, sold, was more than enough for a down payment for our house. If, as is likely, I outlive her, I could find a much younger woman to last the rest of my life and she could have all my stuff after I die. I come by it honestly: my dad was 25 years older than my mom.

James_0011 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:24 am

Im not sure if this counts, but I am in my twenties and have some kind of relationship with a woman twice my age. I wouldn't say that we are partners, but we have sex and spend time together. She lives on the other side of the world for some parts of the year, and pays for my plane ticket to fly and visit her, she also pays for my transportation and food when I visit, and of course I stay with her for free. She also buys me presents/gifts all the time.

So, its not really a sugar momma situation since she doesn't give me straight cash, but its close.

Sounds like a sugar mamma to me. Interesting. If you asked for money do you think she would give it?

thrifty++ wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:49 am

James_0011 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:24 am

Im not sure if this counts, but I am in my twenties and have some kind of relationship with a woman twice my age. I wouldn't say that we are partners, but we have sex and spend time together. She lives on the other side of the world for some parts of the year, and pays for my plane ticket to fly and visit her, she also pays for my transportation and food when I visit, and of course I stay with her for free. She also buys me presents/gifts all the time.

So, its not really a sugar momma situation since she doesn't give me straight cash, but its close.

Sounds like a sugar mamma to me. Interesting. If you asked for money do you think she would give it?

Not sure, she lent me like three hundred dollars one time but I paid her back right away.

I think its definitely doable with the right person though if you're good-looking enough and good at having sex. These older women just want a young, hot guy to make them feel like they are sexy and in college again. Getting into this type of situation would be hard though (or at least it would be for me as I don;t know that many older women or even where to meet them), I just kind of stumbled into what I have now.

For the record, Im probably in the top ten percent of men my age looks wise and I have no doubt that she wouldn't be interested in me at all if I wasn't good-looking.

James_0011 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:25 pm

These older women just want a young, hot guy to make them feel like they are sexy and in college again.

I don't think so. She does it because she can afford it and the money she spends on you is no big deal to her. Good sex (each woman her preferences, but good to her) is much more important than looks, or does she constantly take you to public places where she can show you off?

And are you only doing it for the travels and the other things she spends on you or do you enjoy what you do together and would do it anyway, if she lived close by and didn't 'pay' you?

No she doesn't show me off, but I'm not sure how you could draw your conclusions as you don't know either of us. I enjoy spending time with her, the amount of money she spends on me isn't significant enough for me to hangout with her for that alone.

I think being with a younger partner can make you feel younger in some ways, but being with an older partner can also make you feel younger in other ways. For instance, a couple years ago I was camping along the southeast coast for a couple months in the winter with my early-ish retired ex who was 7 years older than me (57), and we were both younger than the majority of Snowbirds we encountered, so I was constantly being asked if I wanted a ride by men driving by in golf carts as I took my morning hike.

I appreciated the energetic display of my lover who was 32 when I was 44 (how did I end up with my head under this desk!?), but I also remember thinking "Egads, his skin is softer than mine." and then feeling like a bit of a blood-sucking crone. I mean, even if you have 3 lovers who are all over 50, it is kind of like having 3 tubes of toothpaste that are almost gone, and you have to keep rolling them up to get the last little bits out, but I sort of have a talent for that sort of thing, and I prefer older men otherwise.

7Wannabe5 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:27 am

Egads, his skin is softer than mine.

the secret is lotion

BRUTE said: the secret is lotion

lol- Yeah, but you gotta buy it buy the gallon when you are over 50. Constant maintenance. CONSTANT maintenance. My cuckoo-bananas sister is yoga-starving herself back down to the same size as Christie Brinkley. She sometimes likes them younger, but there's no way she would pay for it. She sent some 22 year old a fuzzy picture of her abdomen because she doesn't even know how to use technology, but it still worked. He delivered himself like a pizza. She is a good influence on me in the realms of fitness, aesthetics and music, but otherwise not so much.

James_0011 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:45 am

I'm not sure how you could draw your conclusions as you don't know either of us.

I don't draw any conclusions about you two, but you made a general bold statement:

These older women just want a young, hot guy to make them feel like they are sexy and in college again.

So I replied in a general way.

Eureka wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:59 pm

James_0011 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:45 am

I'm not sure how you could draw your conclusions as you don't know either of us.

I don't draw any conclusions about you two, but you made a general bold statement:

These older women just want a young, hot guy to make them feel like they are sexy and in college again.

So I replied in a general way.

Oh, by 'these older women" I mean "older women who are attracted to young guys" not "all older women".

Well I initially asked this question on here hoping for a bit of advice, but it seems like I probably have the most experience in this area.

I think that there is the potential to monetise this but you have to be pretty hard hearted. I think I am too soft to properly monetise it.

I am a gay male and have had my fair share of sugar daddies. Yet I dont actually seek out sugar daddies, it happens in a more spontaneous fashion. I have been blessed with both good looks and the motivation to obsess about my looks. I also am only exclusively attracted to older men. I am also attracted to older men who are successful. So by virtue of these things I have often ended up in sugar daddy type scenarios.

In my younger days, for the most part what I received was really trinkets. Nothing that would advance me much in an ERE sense. More trinkets and consumption items. When I was 19 I was dating a well off rally car racer who lent me a brand new Mitsubishi Evo road car to use for a couple of months when mine broke down. He got pissed off when I kept getting speeding tickets though. However there was times when I was a student and would have financial crises issues all the time that I ended up getting bailed out of, often by several hundreds of dollars at a time. So I was essentially propped up by it.

Even though I am now 35 I find that I actually tend to attract even more wealthy older men and whom want to spend money on me and its often more money, perhaps because they have a sense of awareness that I earn a decent amount of money and dinners and clothing are unlikely to mean much. I also look about 10 years younger than my age and often lie about my age because I am so insecure about it. I usually say I am 27/28. Fucked up I know.

These days I tend to meet men off the internet because I dont have time to go out alot and many of the men I meet are actually married to women. They advertise as single and then dont reveal this until later on down the track but I often find that their wives have been advised of the situation and it has been condoned. I will get a sense of whether this is correct or not based on whether they have told me all true details regarding their name, where they work, what businesses they run etc.

Bear in mind that these are men who I want to see, enjoy spending time with and want to have sex with. The money and treats comes without being asked for and is not a precondition to me seeing them.

Not too long ago one guy that I see deposited $1,500 spending money into my bank account as he knew I was going on a holiday. I never asked for it. He just asked "can I give you some money. I would like to give you some money so you can have a nice holiday. Give me you bank account details and I will put some money in". Bear in mind this same guy previously offered to gift me a deposit to buy a house, in my expensive city that is basically $180k for a deposit. I refused as it freaked me out. Hence what I said if you want to monetise it I think you need to be pretty hard. You cant be soft like I am. He has also offered to gift me $20k to take a mini retirement because he knows I want to do that which I also refused.

The hard part is also I find that when I start seeing guys who get quite emotional towards me I cant bring myself to receive much expenditure form them as I dont want to hurt them. Its the ones who are more nonchalant like the previous one I mentioned that I am comfortable to receive things from.

The worst part is what has happened to me recently. I have been dating a man for about 8 months. I didnt know it initially but have discovered he is basically a multi millionaire, Likely going into the tens and potentially hundreds of millions. I have basically fallen for him. He is very generous with money and I have indulged it. He has constantly taken me to expensive dinners and always wanted to pay for everything. He was so quick to cover everything from the start and that I found very attractive. He lives occasionally in my city and other times in Sydney, as well as other places to run his businesses. He would ask me to go see him in Sydney but due to me being so busy I had to put it off often but he paid for business class tickets a couple of times for me to go and stay with him in his penthouse apartment overlooking Sydney harbour. All expenses paid. More-so I went because I wanted to see him not because of the tickets to Sydney. He also has a penthouse apartment in my city which sits empty most of the time and he offered for me to live in it for free. I said I will think about it. I am glad I didnt take up the offer now. Basically all of these things is like throwing around 10 cent coins to him. I found this quite exciting and fascinating.

This man has a wife and kids who live in Brisbane. He is hardly ever there. He told his wife that he is gay around the time I started seeing him. They are basically in the early stages of a separation. He also revealed this to his siblings. I think it would be lying for me to deny part of the reason I fell for him was due to his wealth. His entrepreneurship and seeming limitless resources is very fascinating to me. But I also very much enjoy spending time with him and we get on extremely well. We laugh and have good conversations always. I also find him attractive and am not embarrassed to be seen with him. Although I like older men I am sometimes embarrassed to be seen with them in public because when there is an age disparity I think it makes us more likely to look gay as well as like a sugar daddy relationship, because we dont look like peers/friends. Although with him I never had such embarrassment. He is actually not that old in any event. I have never asked his real age because he is insecure about it and that is the most taboo subject among gay men, but I am pretty sure he is about 45.

So anyhow I very much have fallen for him and I became emotional about it recently and things have come to an end rather swiftly as a result in the last few days. Seriously this is almost like the real life gay version of Julia Roberts and Richard Gere. I feel like absolute shit. Not only because I fell for him but also because I now feel like such a loser. Having witnessed such wealth and limitless resources and carefree throwing around of vasts sums of money has left me feeling that way. Up until recently I was reasonably satisfied going around penny pinching and scraping together sums of money in the pursuit of middle class financial independence. But now I am feeling what have I done wrong, why have I not managed to become so successful. Why am I counting dollars and cents like ebenezer scrooge. Why am I not a multi millionaire entrepreneur. I know this is all very irrational but I can stop this playing in my head. I would like to remove these thoughts from my head. I think its the mix of rejection and comparison. Its hard not to compare yourself to who you are dating when you are the same sex. Looks, body, wealth etc.

Having had this experience makes me feel like avoiding dating wealthy men again. To feel this shit. In retrospect I feel like I wish I had used it more as a learning and educational experience to probe into his entrepreneurship secrets more.

I feel like I need to get my shit together. Being gay is hard enough but being exclusively attracted to older men is like a curse. It doesnt actually even advance me in a wealth sense. Its all just trinkets. I would actually be far better off to find a partner like me and build wealth together. And probably a far healthier more stable relationship. But to be honest it has never been about accumulating wealth. Its just that I like being spoiled. There is a romance to it. Call it "daddy issues" and I would probably agree. Although I do look good I am desperately clinging to my youthful looks, while it is slowly creeping out of my control. Obsessing by removing all carbs from my diet, making sure every day involves rigorous exercise and now even completely avoiding any alcohol for months at a time. When the light shines in certain angles I can now see a couple of grey hairs shining through. I am not sure straight men have any concept of these types of anxieties.

Well looks like I have revealed a whole hell of a lot of information. But I needed to dump this somewhere.

What is your Sugar Daddy paying for?

For those unfamiliar with sugaring, there is a belief that sugar daddies are only into their sugar babies for sex. Women who go into the bowl who do not want to be sexually intimate with their sugar daddies are regarded as naïve or not taken seriously. Any potential sugar daddy you encounter who is only seeking sex can immediately be redirected towards an escort service. But real sugar daddies aren’t paying for sex. So, what is it they’re paying for?

A legitimate sugar daddy is paying to be enchanted. He is the literal equivalent of a princess waiting to be swept off his feet, except he’s willing to pay for it. When he’s with you, you should bring something to his life that he can’t buy. Fantasy, intrigue, enchantment, intimacy, honesty…the list goes on. When you’re talking to a potential sugar daddy, you have to be able to read him very quickly. Tap into the parts of him that are hurting, malnourished, vulnerable, and at the very least, bored.

Any women can fuck him for the right price. Any woman can take his money. But you, your job is to make him fall in love every time he sees you. You’re his fantasy come to life. You make his life a little more bearable. And in turn, he looks forward to seeing you. He looks forward to making you happy and thus, is more than hand over his black AmEx to make you smile.

Came across a blog addressing the subject. The above captures the dynamic very well in my opinion.

You should also look into FinDom. This is where the real money is made.

Thanks for sharing, Thrifty. That's fascinating stuff.

Having seen more and more women these days with things seemingly written casually in their dating profiles like "spoil me", "looking for a daddy" "sugar daddies apply here", etc... I wonder about the financial specifics of the men in these kind of relationships.

Of the guys you've been with that have spent/given/offered you money, do you have any estimates of what percentage of their total spending they have given/spent on you (or wanted to give you, or been willing to give? Are there common amounts? What makes the % vary? (how carefree they spend? How much they are into you? if/how much access/control/exclusivity they want with you?)