Buying Physical Gold

Ask your investment, budget, and other money related questions here
User avatar
tylerrr
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:32 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Buying Physical Gold

Post by tylerrr » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:13 am

Can anyone recommend a place to buy gold coins of high quality?

thanks

Felipe
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Felipe » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:07 am

I like Golddealer.com
I've helped multiple friends purchase from there. I'm in California so orders arrive fast since it's based in California. $2000 minimum order, if over $10,000 you might have to report it to Uncle Sam but no shipping and many of the coins/bullion sell for pretty close to spot.

User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:49 am

Goldmart.

2Birds1Stone
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:20 am

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:14 am

I've used goldmart, provident metals, monarch precious metals, and a few others.

Provident had the best customer service and discreet packaging, goldmart had the most competitive pricing but customer service was non existent and shipping took forever.

User avatar
Tyler9000
Posts: 1256
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:45 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Tyler9000 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:32 am

I haven't personally used them, but I've heard good things about Texas Precious Metals. www.texmetals.com

OTCW
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:55 am

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by OTCW » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:23 pm

The US mint is bringing a new $100 gold coin out. It will be an ounce of 24k. It will retail for a premium above the cost of an ounce of gold, but will have potential collectible value.

User avatar
vexed87
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by vexed87 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:15 am

The real question is where do you store your physical?...

I would like to think I have thought up some genius places, but I'd have to kill you if I told you. :roll:

ducknalddon
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 am

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by ducknalddon » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:34 am

vexed87 wrote:The real question is where do you store your physical?...
Every time I see this thread I think it says "Burying Physical Gold" :)

User avatar
bryan
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by bryan » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:09 pm

@ducknalddon, @vexed87,
http://www.wikihow.com/Bury-Valuables-to-Keep-Them-Safe,
https://www.scribd.com/document/5269872 ... LVER-COINS

lol..

But really, if you are going to have wealth stored in something as resilient to environmental factors as gold, take advantage! Don't store it in your closet, bury it in your backyard!

User avatar
vexed87
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by vexed87 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:34 am

Now you've said it, it's not such a great idea, unless you own many acres and can keep the riff raff with metal detectors away :D

Farm_or
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:57 am
Contact:

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Farm_or » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:29 am

About thirty years ago, I knew someone who had a stash of gold coins in a heavy wooden box. They hid it in an old freezer with a suspicious log chain pad locked around it.

The theif simply slid the log chain off the top. They didn't even pass the chain through the handle!

Long story short, the theif was their neighbors 12 yo boy. His mother walked in on him celebrating with a golden shower. "I'M rich! Found a pirate treasure!"

His mother didn't fall for that and notified the sherrif and my friend got their gold back.

User avatar
bryan
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by bryan » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:41 pm

@vexed87, it's so value-dense you should have no issue finding a nice spot to bury $20k at a time with the smallest of digging tools (e.g. knife). Also you seem to overestimate the risk of riff raff with metal detectors? Much more likely to have a burglar bust into your home and find your stash.

I admit it's pretty fun to consider attack vectors though.. I had my van broken into once and happy to report that the burglar only went straight for the quick grabs (glovebox, backpack, messenger bags, suitcase, storage box).

User avatar
Tyler9000
Posts: 1256
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:45 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Tyler9000 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:19 pm

A running gag on Gyroscopic Investing (PP forum) is that everyone who admits to buying physical gold immediately lost it in a tragic boating accident. Let the thieves scour the waterways. ;)

User avatar
vexed87
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by vexed87 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:35 pm

bryan wrote:Also you seem to overestimate the risk of riff raff with metal detectors?
No doubt your government has diligently made a log of your IP addresses, quickly noted your whereabouts ready for the first round of safe keeping... cough... confiscations. Pretty scary too considering 'they' likely have access to your entire search history and therefore have a reasonable idea where you might have your stash.

Best to keep such things to ourselves and never to consult google, or at least to search for as many diversionary tactics as possible. Mine are all buried in my potato patch... or did I have a boating accident, damnit? :D

classical_Liberal
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by classical_Liberal » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:02 pm

Just avoid smiling around thieves and at border crossings.

Image

halfmoon
Posts: 519
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by halfmoon » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Some years ago, I was visiting a client's office for some on-site work. The conversation (how do people get anything DONE in the average office?) turned to investments. One of the women who worked there said, "Any time I have extra money, I buy gold coins and bury them in jars in my yard." I was amazed that she would tell this to anyone, let alone casual acquaintances. I said, "You do realize that we all know where you live, right?"

User avatar
bryan
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by bryan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:37 pm

Well it's good to not go around advertising you've got a lot of fungible valuables.

Burying coinage is a tried and true method. If you don't like the idea someone spying on you (or unauthorized excavations or forgetting about it), you can incorporate it into, or hide inside, your home's furniture, appliances, etc. I plan on doing this with silver (silverware, tea kettle, cups, candlesticks, etc). Of course thieves used to go straight for such things, but I have a feeling most people (and thieves) have forgotten this stuff? If you think they are still aware of expensive pieces (not just jewellery), do more hiding by integration than showing off.

Keeping gold on your person usually means jewellery, but you could also resort to some less overt methods like having a secret spot in the soles of your shoes/boots, use gold instead of steel in your steel-toe boots, make buttons/buckles, make some fake keys, make some glasses, cigarette accessory, sew into tongue of your boots, etc.

tangent: i think it would be a pretty funny method of selling your gold/silver for over spot by making it into bean sized pieces and selling them as "digestion safe value stores" or something :lol:

Scott 2
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Scott 2 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:12 pm

It's impractical to store any significant value in silver, the price per ounce is too low.

Between transaction and holding costs, I could never justify physical gold. I've wanted a one ounce coin for at least ten years.

The only argument I've seen in favor of holding physical is collapse of the financial system, but I think you're better off investing in tools, guns, ammo, food, fuel, etc. - if that is a real concern.

If that is the fear, and gold is coveted, I'd suggest cash transactions in amounts below government reporting limts. Again, this raises transaction cost and risk.

User avatar
bryan
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by bryan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:08 pm

re: silver, I just mentioned a few examples though? For a one pound DIY tea kettle you are looking at something like $3 for copper, $275 for silver, or $20k for gold. Any other suggestions for precious metals?

Point taken on transaction costs. It's why I would sort of echo @tyler's advice of splitting your gold (or any precious metal, commodity..) between physical and ETF (or futures :D ). Maybe a gold buying strategy is to set up a home business "WE BUY GOLD" by appointment only and advertise it on google maps, yelp, etc. Give them under spot but better than the competition? You'd have to deal with attesting to the purity though..

> The only argument I've seen in favor of holding physical is collapse of the financial system, but I think you're better off investing in tools, guns, ammo, food, fuel, etc. - if that is a real concern.

From http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/invest ... msg1289046
bryan wrote:Quite the contrary. In any case of systemic failure (or some migratory fleeing a troubled state) I can think of, gold has proven rather valuable, especially relative to the local stocks, real estate, fiat currency, debts, contracts. Granted, if you are talking about some prepper wet-dream, I would agree that one could have more practical investments like coffee/whiskey/sugar/spices/salt/soap/chickens/eggs/cooking fats/pistol ammo/etc..
> I'd suggest cash transactions in amounts below government reporting limts. Again, this raises transaction cost and risk.

You just mean the risks of having cash on hand versus the risks of it in the banks, brokerages, etc? I'm not sure what you mean by increased transaction costs, though.

User avatar
vexed87
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by vexed87 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:06 am

Don't forget gold is pretty malleable, it can be hammered into any shape and painted. Let your imagination run wild. Of course, you lose the benefits of easily recognisability of bullion, but if your're really concerned about theft, there's no better alternative than an impenetrable vault or burial.

User avatar
JohnnyH
Posts: 2007
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Rockies

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by JohnnyH » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:50 am

Sign up for ebay bucks... I routinely get offers for 8% ebay bucks, $100 max ($1,250 @ 8%). Purchased with 2% credit card, or 6% off gift cards, it is routinely well under spot and can be flipped instantly for $50+ profit/coin locally... I like apmex as seller on ebay.

Spartan_Warrior
Posts: 1560
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:15 pm

I just signed up for Ebay bucks, but they don't seem to apply to bullion--that is, I don't see any bullion listings that earn them. What am I missing?

Scott 2
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Scott 2 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:41 pm

bryan wrote:For a one pound DIY tea kettle you are looking at something like $3 for copper, $275 for silver, or $20k for gold.
...
You'd have to deal with attesting to the purity though..

You just mean the risks of having cash on hand versus the risks of it in the banks, brokerages, etc? I'm not sure what you mean by increased transaction costs, though.
In my mind, storing $300 of wealth doesn't do much for you. Even a green box of silver eagles, which is relatively compact, but still weighs about 30lbs, only stores about $9k. If you are going to store physical, I don't see much argument for anything but gold. Maybe the idea of using silver for small transactions in a disaster scenario, but again, not the most useful objects to have. I would definitely think recognizable forms, like a silver eagle, would be more useful than a teapot. Even then, who's to say you don't have fakes?

Purity assays are a solved problem, but an ongoing challenge of transactions with physical, especially private party. So that leaves you with the question of - do you buy from a big dealer and accept that your transactions will be on the record, or do you take the risk of small time transactions? If so, how do you ensure purity, security and privacy? What about once the transaction is over? How much time and travel do you spend on it? That is all transaction cost.

In the US there is a federal reporting limit for "large" transactions. Here's an example:

https://www.jmbullion.com/reportable-bu ... fographic/

So one of the main benefits I'd see, secret wealth, is pretty hard to actually keep secret. Again, I'm not saying you can't, but it adds to transaction costs.

Additionally, how much untraceable wealth does it take to make you a target? It depends on the area, but $10k sure would interest a lot of people. The most valuable thing in my home is either a 4 year old laptop, or a 13 year old car. That's on purpose. I live in a safe area and am security conscious, but I also go out of my way to avoid being a target.

If you just want to invest in precious metal, you can own the miners, you can even buy physical that is held by a 3rd party. I think either would be a better option than getting and holding physical, for the reasons above. Again, I think it would be fun to own physical, I just can't justify it. I have a whopping two ounces of silver, mementos from a job where I among other things, did work for a company that services the bullion industry.

User avatar
vexed87
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by vexed87 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:34 am

@scott 2, the trouble with owning Au miner stock is that they don't always work well as a substitute for Au. The stock can drop when other factors in the economy will cause Au price to rise. Miner stock might seem like a good bet when the economy is stressed and the conditions are right, however, imo Au shines when used as a hedge against extremes in the economy, by extremes, we're talking about events like the great recession, brexit etc.

For instance, a serious economic downturn might result in tight money recession or some monetary crisis, crippling necessary investment to continue mining operations. While you would expect miner stock to do well when Au is also doing well, they rely on turning a profit to pay dividends, so any of the multitude of factors that affect the costs of operations hits the bottom line, thus your stock can fall, even if Au price is rising. If the Au isn't economical to mine, the extraction and refinery works stop. Factors can be cost of labour, machinery, transports and distribution, credit, availability and cost of energy, or quality of Au deposits being exploited, (just like oil, all the easy Au has been exploited, what remains is the marginal yield stuff that's only profitable when prices run high). Continued extraction relies on high prices, and low energy prices. It's important to remember the value of Au miner stock is not linked to the value of Au extracted, but the amount of profit turned over. When you really need the Au , the miner stock might be crashing for the same reason physical is doing well, right when you need it.

All investments have some cost of ownership, I don't see physical being any different, although the spread cost on physical can be unpalatable to the uninitiated, it's nothing compared to the 15% drop in the £ we experienced after Brexit. IMO, the trade offs are worth the security of physical, after all, it's often used as a hedge against the worst case scenarios. Cutting costs of investing makes sense, but not when you undermine the integrity and purpose of your allocation.
Last edited by vexed87 on Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spartan_Warrior
Posts: 1560
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Re: Buying Physical Gold

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:03 am

Re: Ebay Bucks

After closer investigation, it would seem that anything listed in the category "Coins and Paper Money > Bullion" is ineligible to earn ebay bucks. Apparently you can find some scattered listings posted in "Coins and Paper Money > Other US Coins" or "World Coins" that are eligible, but every one I've seen is about $100 more than equivalent listings in "Bullion". For example, APMEX lists a 2017 gold eagle in "Bullion" for about $1275, while a 2009 gold eagle in "Other US Coins" is listed at about $1375. This would seem to offset any potential benefit to looking for listings outside the bullion category that are ebay bucks eligible. Not seeing how this ebay bucks scam actually works. I thought it sounded too good to be true...

Post Reply