SO gave money to parents

[Josué]

This is related to another hot topic in this section of the forum, but since the situation is quite different IMO, I decided to start a new one.

My GF has had to "help" her parents with money over the last couple of years: that's basically where 20k€ of savings went (she's savings-less now). The first 10k€ were a debt she felt that she had to them, because they kind of supported her financially during her 2 year long Master's abroad. The second 10k€ were part of a down payment that they needed in order to buy a new house (moving somewhere cheaper).

I honestly don't know what to do if they ask her for money again. I empathize with their situation but I don't feel like it's much of my problem. I mean it's not really, it's only my problem to the extent that it's my GF's. But I think that, in case she needs to give them more money, I will consider breaking up (or at least letting her know it's a possibility).

In general I guess it's hard for parents to ask their children for money and I think that if I ever have children I will sell my ass before I ever ask them for money. But I see that it's not uncommon for adult children to have to help their parents financially.

How do you deal with this? In my case I'm happy now since my GF is convinced that they won't ask her for money again and besides she's really stressed out for not having savings. But when I think of what those 20k€ could have become in 20-30 years I get really mad...

[Ego]

But I think that, in case she needs to give them more money, I will consider breaking up (or at least letting her know it's a possibility).

Planting a seed like, "If you do X, I might break up with you," can kill a relationship. It will happen slowly, but beware that you are planting poisonous seeds.

If you foresee their asking for more money in the future, consider bringing it up with your girlfriend now that they are stable and help her to set a plan in case they do. That is, if she wants to come up with a plan to say no. Some kids don't mind doing what she's doing.

If she wants to no longer give them money you might encourage her to let them believe that she has no savings whatsoever. She could foster the belief that you cover any out-of-the-ordinary or extravagant expenses. She could drop hints that she is in debt and maybe she should hint that she needs the money back that she gave them as she is going through a rough patch. You might role play where you pretend to be the asking parent and you help her to come up with polite responses for several scenarios.

If they hit her with some emergency or something out of the ordinary, encourage her to tell them she needs to think about it. People often create little emergencies that need solved NOW!!!. Another good technique with those situations is to simply repeat their problem then say no without offering any excuse or explanation. "Mom, I am so sorry that you need the money right now to get your car out of the impound so that you can get to work and not lose your job. I am so sorry but I cannot help you." If they are imprudent enough to ask why, simply repeat, "I am so sorry but I cannot help." Hold firm. No explanation. Eventually they will get the message.

Another good rule of thumb is that if this is a relationship that you want to last a long time, consider these problems both her problem and yours, together. You may not solve it, per se, but you offer support to her in solving it.

[IlliniDave]

I'd tend to stay out of it at this juncture. It's her money and her parents and she's got to learn to balance things in the way that's best for her. It sounds like she appreciates the risk she's taken, believes it is bounded, and nothing has spiraled out of control yet (as was the case in the other topic). Probably best to let it ride and only give advice when she asks for it.

[Riggerjack]

I see a few contradicting things here.

"I empathize with their situation but I don't feel like it's much of my problem. I mean it's not really, it's only my problem to the extent that it's my GF's. But I think that, in case she needs to give them more money, I will consider breaking up (or at least letting her know it's a possibility)."

Seems to contradict

"But when I think of what those 20k€ could have become in 20-30 years I get really mad..."

Either finances are together, or they are separate.

Is this is her problem? In which case, you have no business getting upset at what savings could have been hers.

Relationships come with enough compatibility issues without you being more attached to her money than to her.

[Sclass]

Wow. I don't have much to add. Good advice here. At the end of the day it's her money unless she saved it by putting you through some hardship. Ahh, I have an Sclass story.

At 28, I actually had a breakup a few days after a conversation like "would you or your husband to be handle the money?" The discussion came up over who would pay for GF's three sisters' college tuition. She said she would. I said what if you're married? She said she still would. Not if I handled the finances I said. You won't she said matter of factly. . She explained upon marriage I would be expected to deposit my paycheck into a joint account for her to "invest" for our future.

We were split within 72 hours. It was that big a deal. I forgot all about it till I read Ego's comment. Yes, that was a show stopper and she cut things so abruptly and unexpectedly I was literally walking in one night expecting to get laid and she said NO. Fifteen minutes later I was driving away. I almost felt the door hit my butt as I stepped out. I mean I blew off the whole money conversation and thought I'd just go forward indulging myself on her. She had a very different plan. She wouldn't even have me one last time after I'd voiced my terms. It was a big wake up call for my younger self. I was so traumatized I kind of forced myself to forget it. I can still remember how much I loved her. But I also love my money. Money won.

I think you should tell your GF what you want your future to look like. She may boot you out. And you'll both be better off in the long run.

My brother supports his in-laws. He went in offering only money as his deliverable and got exactly what he paid for. It's ugly but he kind of deserved it.

Good luck with things.

[Josué]

I guess I was a bit upset when I posted, I actually don't think I would break up. Or at least I wouldn't threaten her with that because I agree with the poisonous seed argument.

We're actually on the same page financially, i.e., we both want to save a lot and invest wisely. She does complain about having had to finance her parents and not having savings (crying included) but I guess she didn't have a choice.

I keep advising her not to discuss money, salary etc, with anyone because I believe that increases the chances of having people borrowing. She did lend money to a friend - 500€ - who has been slowly paying back (200€ over the past 10 months or so). Recently we learned that that person will be spending NYE in Milano, Italy, which made my GF ask her to pay back!

I wonder a bit what the warning signs of too much "niceness" from my GF would be... When is giving money to parents a pathological thing, like in the other post I mentioned?

[Seppia]

On one hand, it's her money so you have zero say on how she handles it.
On the other, not being aligned on how to manage finances is one of the major causes of breakups.
I personally could never be with someone who's not compatible financially with me: my wife handles money differently (she doesn't invest in stocks, for example), but we share the core values of
Spend much less than you make
Don't buy stupid shit
Etc

[Dragline]

Well, if she doesn't have any savings, she's really not in a position to be supporting them. I believe she needs to figure out how to communicate "no" to them, assuming that is what she really wants to do. It might also help if she were to save the money in some form of retirement account or other that does not allow for easy access.

You say she is convinced that they will not ask for money again. I have to say that that does not sound very realistic given the pattern you describe. And what is her plan if they do? I'd be writing down some "talking points" and keeping them tucked away, just in case.

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, this is not really your problem -- at least not yet. It becomes your problem when you either combine finances or get married, though. So it would have to be resolved before any of that were to occur.

[Josué]

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, this is not really your problem -- at least not yet. It becomes your problem when you either combine finances or get married, though. So it would have to be resolved before any of that were to occur.

We plan to always have separate accounts even if we get married. In case we do get married, what do we have to do in order to keep our finances separate? How do the people here in the forum usually handle this?

[Dragline]

There is another thread on pre-nuptial agreements. But it looks like you are outside the US, so your law may be different.

Short answer (in the US) is that you can protect what you walk into the marriage with. For money accumulated during the marriage, you really can't and its going to be divided in some way (in a divorce), regardless of whose name is on the account.

You can certainly just keep monies in separate accounts under your own names as a practical matter. But that won't really solve your problem. What I would see happening is that she gives her money to her parents and then you end up making up for that, and getting more upset and bitter every time she does it, so much so that she starts hiding what she is doing. Which leads to a lack of basic trust, endless fights and/or the silent treatment, and eventually a divorce.

You need to fix the problem before going in. Or don't go in.

[7Wannabe5]

Dragline said: Short answer (in the US) is that you can protect what you walk into the marriage with. For money accumulated during the marriage, you really can't and its going to be divided in some way (in a divorce), regardless of whose name is on the account.

And if you have minor children at the time of your divorce, the results can vary widely from state to state and county to county. So, if you were married in NYC, but then moved to rural Florida and lived there for 10 years before your spouse files for divorce, it will be the rural Florida precedents that apply. I don't know anybody who takes this into account when they move.

It has been my observation that there are all kinds of different variations on legal and financial arrangements these-a-days. My BF and I have discussed the possibility of moving in together, but there is no way in heck I am going to chip in 50/50 for the lifestyle he prefers to afford, and he won't even consider living in my camper. I could move in with him and pay less than 50/50, but then I would probably end up ironing his shirts out of guilt, like some kind of "ghetto-wife", BTDT-uh-uh-uh.

[EdithKeeler]

We plan to always have separate accounts even if we get married. In case we do get married, what do we have to do in order to keep our finances separate? How do the people here in the forum usually handle this?

I always wonder about that "we'll keep our finances separate" thing. That seems like it works great in theory, but the reality?

If one spouse loses their job and can't pay her half of the mortgage, do you get to boot her out? Or just make her pay it back once she's employed again? How about if she doesn't save for retirement, but you do? Then you're both retired, and she can't travel with you or do whatever, because she's got no cash.

Of course, I'm joking here, but it seems to me that even if you "keep your finances" separate, at some point, one way or another, your finances converge. From a bookkeeping perspective, it may make sense (ie, I don't have to keep with with checks you write, and vice versa) but beyond that, what's the real advantage?

My thought is that even if you keep your finances separate, your SO's spending or gifts to her mother have the potential to affect you regardless, so best to figure it out before you get married.

I have a friend who had "separate accounts" of a sort. She ran up over $100K in credit card debt he didn't know about. He got laid off from his job, with a sweet severance package, and then she had to come clean when they started talking about how to handle his severance. Guess what? It was almost enough to cover her credit card debt. They worked through it, and if they hadn't lived in a community property state, they probably would have divorced.

[Sclass]

I tried to keep things separate with my SO when we got together years ago. We had some trust issues I guess (she didn't trust me and wanted her money set aside so she could leave me if she wanted to). I let her do her own thing. It's quite shocking what her negative single digit return rate did to her nest egg from her dad. He gave her some security money in case I turned out to be a rotten egg.

As the years went by she dealt with the loss by ignoring it. After awhile she couldn't ignore my returns from the stock market and asked to commingle her funds.

This has created new problems of course. Psychological stuff like who is in charge or who has the upper hand. But after years of seeing my investments grow and hers shrink she finally took down the barbed wire fence around her accounts. It was a bitter pill for her to take but after awhile it was clear that she had lost years of positive returns. It was odd because our relationship started out as rich girl meets poor boy but I eventually turned that around. Sometimes I got resentful that I could have been much further ahead had I had access to her money, but at this point another dollar won't change my lifestyle at all. Being alone would.

We finally comingled it all a few years ago. The lack of faith in me kind of annoyed me but I guess I'm over it. Mostly she was acting under her dad's advice. Long ago. We will enjoy a glass of whiskey together on Thanksgiving. He finally likes me.

On the flip side I have a pal who begged and begged his successful wife to commingle their funds so he could invest in RE. She said no. She was worried. He complained to me that he could do bigger projects with her retirement savings and she was holding out. She complained to me that his schemes were dangerous. Well, he lost all of his money. He is now her boy. A 60 yo boy. Thank goodness she walled off her funds.

[7Wannabe5]

Sclass said: but at this point another dollar won't change my lifestyle at all. Being alone would.

This is why I don't think it is completely wise to caution youngsters who are in the acquisition phase to be completely conservative in terms of relationships. My perspective is that I am surrounded by older people who have little marginal utility for more income or wealth, but find themselves very lonely in a variety of ways. There are all sorts of ways to be "stuck." For instance, I know older men who are stuck in very unhappy, sexless marriages because they can't release control over half of community funds, even though their frugal lifestyle doesn't require a quarter of these funds. A lot of people would rather win than be happy or even survive.

[George the original one]

Ever notice how no one titles a post "Parents gave money to SO"?