Brexit

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radamfi
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by radamfi »

Higher population density is an advantage when it comes to the environment. It makes walking, public transport and cycling more viable. Compare a typical compact UK/European town/city to a North American town/city.

Also, heavily populated countries can be self-sufficient in food. Look at the Netherlands, more densely populated than the UK. They are massive food exporters.

Yes, fewer people is good for the environment, but if you are serious about that, have fewer children. If you assume a fixed world population, it is more environmentally friendly to have them crammed next to each other rather than spread across a wide area.

vexed87
Posts: 1521
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Brexit

Post by vexed87 »

radamfi wrote:If you assume a fixed world population, it is more environmentally friendly to have them crammed next to each other rather than spread across a wide area.
I see where you are coming from BUT...

It may make sense to dump your toxic waste all in one place but I would argue for human footprint, human's widely dispersed practising permaculture principles outside of urban environments may well have significantly less footprint on the environment than urban dwellers who are ignorant of their arguably larger demands on the earth's ecology. i.e. Outsourcing food production to the industrialised intensive mono-agriculture farming techniques which work against nature, not with it. A permaculture food garden can actively encourage and balances other life, whereas green revolution style agri actually suppresses it.

Of course, there are advantaged to living in towns and cities which cannot be ignored. Were going off on a tangent now :lol:

DutchGirl
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Brexit

Post by DutchGirl »

radamfi wrote: Also, heavily populated countries can be self-sufficient in food. Look at the Netherlands, more densely populated than the UK. They are massive food exporters.
Part of our food export is first imported into the Netherlands, then processed or repackaged in the NL, then shipped out again. We're good at trading in the Netherlands.

There is a lot of food production, too, that's correct. There's lots of intensive animal farming - which is not very good for the animals, nor for the environment, and perhaps also not for our health (think zoonoses and bacteria that become resistant to antibiotics). A second thing is that we have a lot of greenhouses. Also not very environmentally-friendly, because they need a lot of energy in these parts of the world.

In short, I don't think you should look at us for some sustainable answers.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by BRUTE »

tulips

DutchGirl
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Brexit

Post by DutchGirl »

Flowers, indeed. I've met some Dutch farmers who now grow their flowers in Africa (cheap labor, lots of sun) and then have them transported to the Netherlands for processing & selling.

ducknalddon
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 am

Re: Brexit

Post by ducknalddon »

Visiting the flower markets in the Netherlands was fascinating, the scale is enormous.

radamfi
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by radamfi »

My premature death is one step closer.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by BRUTE »

radamfi wrote:My premature death is one step closer.
because of flowers?

radamfi
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by radamfi »

BRUTE wrote:
radamfi wrote:My premature death is one step closer.
because of flowers?
Because of last night's vote.

chenda
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Brexit

Post by chenda »

I don't see a hard brexit being geographically achievable in the long term; it would a require a hard border in Northern Ireland - highly contentious- or some kind of internal border along the Irish Sea, which is somewhat absurd.

We could just join the EFTA; which would be a workable compromise: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea ... ssociation

radamfi
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by radamfi »

chenda wrote:I don't see a hard brexit being geographically achievable in the long term; it would a require a hard border in Northern Ireland - highly contentious- or some kind of internal border along the Irish Sea, which is somewhat absurd.

We could just join the EFTA; which would be a workable compromise: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea ... ssociation
Logic doesn't apply any more.

Hankaroundtheworld
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:50 am

Re: Brexit

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

DutchGirl wrote:Flowers, indeed. I've met some Dutch farmers who now grow their flowers in Africa (cheap labor, lots of sun) and then have them transported to the Netherlands for processing & selling.
Totally true, I have met these Dutch farmers in Kenya, and they are happy there, less regulation than Europe, cheap labor, enough water and sun, and daily flower flights to the Netherlands. The world is more and more connected, although a reverse has started with Brexit and Trump towards "own country first" attitude. Can we really reset the world towards the previous level of trade interactions, and become less connected and hide behind walls (economic walls and real brick walls) .... As long as economy grows, perhaps, but once we hit another crisis, the flood of poor people towards the west will increase (especially Europe), it will be impossible to stop. For instance, I have seen the growth of population in Nigeria (total population will double the coming 20-30 years towards 350 Million), and they cannot even sustain themselves right now. 3 times guessing where they will go to if they are hungry. I think the only way is to enhance our global connectiveness instead of hiding behind walls, and make sure the whole world can benefit, not just "own country first". It will backfire sooner or later if we think Brexit (and similar elsewhere) is the answer

ducknalddon
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 am

Re: Brexit

Post by ducknalddon »

radamfi wrote:Logic doesn't apply any more.
I'm just resigned to it happening now and I'm not expecting any trade deal with the EU for at least 10 years.

radamfi
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by radamfi »

My suicide is now just over one and a half years away

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40734504

Sarouel
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:37 am

Re: Brexit

Post by Sarouel »

I do feel sorry for you, but hey, you don't have to stay there. You can always leave. What about migrating to the Netherlands?

radamfi
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by radamfi »

Sarouel wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:21 am
I do feel sorry for you, but hey, you don't have to stay there. You can always leave. What about migrating to the Netherlands?
As explained earlier, leaving now is not practical.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by BRUTE »

or, as other humans have called it, progress.

Sarouel
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:37 am

Re: Brexit

Post by Sarouel »

But death is practical?

ducknalddon
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 am

Re: Brexit

Post by ducknalddon »

It's certainly the frugal option.

Zeran
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:34 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by Zeran »

As explained earlier, leaving now is not practical.
Does this change affect you if you are already in the UK? I'm asking because my partner is also not a UK citizen.

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