Bitcoin on the rise

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:06 pm

does chenda care to elaborate? brute would agree that elites use keynesian "economics" to hoodwink dumb humans

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chenda
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by chenda » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:10 pm

BRUTE wrote:does chenda care to elaborate? brute would agree that elites use keynesian "economics" to hoodwink dumb humans
They have persued austerity in a liquidity trap and have done little to alievate unemployment.

Hankaroundtheworld
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Hankaroundtheworld » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:16 pm

In the meantime DOA (and Application / Smart contract) on top of Ethereum has been hacked, and ETH dived 30% in value. Just to show the risks in investing in these new technologies, hence why I call it fun-investments (casino play). By the way, to show you how greed works, I now bought more ETH with this lower rate, and I probably get punished for it :-) People need to re-learn all the time!

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:41 pm

chenda wrote:
BRUTE wrote:does chenda care to elaborate? brute would agree that elites use keynesian "economics" to hoodwink dumb humans
They have persued austerity in a liquidity trap and have done little to alievate unemployment.
brute and chenda must be talking about different elites. brute is pretty sure this cannot be said about the FED ;)

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chenda
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by chenda » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:16 pm

BRUTE wrote:brute and chenda must be talking about different elites. brute is pretty sure this cannot be said about the FED ;)
Keynesians have been critical of the Federal Reserve, for an inadequate programme of quantitative easing and too low an inflation target. Chairman Bernanke has ignored Professor Bernanke's own advice.

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:39 pm

maybe some keynesians have. the monetary expansion under the ben bernank has been pretty unprecedented.

brute personally has yet to see anything he'd call "austerity".

Ydobon
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Ydobon » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:48 am

I would posit that the Greeks have experienced something close to austerity, or at least a nasty period of cold turkey!

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:20 am

certainly their government hasn't, at least not "austerity" in relation to a terrible economic crisis.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/ ... t-spending

brute always finds it funny how humans compare post-bubble spending to mid-bubble spending, determine it's lower but humans are unhappy, and then claim "austerity doesn't work". what do humans think caused the bubble, austerity?

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by trfie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:45 pm

A lot of separate topics are being confused here.

Yes, most/all major state-sponsored currencies are inflationary and have their own problems. This has nothing to do with bitcoin, except that it makes bitcoin more valuable because relatively, it has advantages over other currencies.

Gold has its own issues and is not used as a currency anywhere because of this. Fiat currencies can no longer be exchanged for gold. So gold cannot be used to support bitcoin being used as a currency.

Why is there an assumption that the deflation of bitcoin will be <2%? It will be more than 2% per year, but in actuality the deflation cannot be predicted in advance and there will be separate problems because of this. It was also commented about being a long-term problem, which is true, but this is not an argument in favor of bitcoin, only that the problems will not happen right now.

I think it's possible for a cryptocurrency to be created that deals with all of these issues and has all the advantages over traditional currency, but it hasn't been created yet.

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:44 pm

the 2% deflation was just an example. nobody freaks out over 2% inflation (except goldbugs). brute thinks deflation is a neutral phenomenon, not a bad phenomenon. it has certain implications, just like inflation does. the people who are afraid of it (and criticize bitcoin for being deflationary) are usually keynesians who think the only way the economy isn't going to tank is PRINT BABY PRINT.

wood
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by wood » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:40 am

Bitcoin got hacked the other day and dropped 20% in value. I'm just waiting for something similar to happen to "real" money.

Ydobon
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Ydobon » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:20 am

wood wrote:Bitcoin got hacked the other day and dropped 20% in value. I'm just waiting for something similar to happen to "real" money.
It seems to be happening every other day in the UK at the moment :lol:

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by ether » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:54 am

wood wrote:Bitcoin got hacked the other day and dropped 20% in value. I'm just waiting for something similar to happen to "real" money.
Happens more than you think! It's just market participants don't freak out when it happens to the USD!
Read Here

Banks use SWIFT instead of blockchain. There is a reason people are excited about blockchain technology!

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:04 am

bitcoin did not get hacked, a huge exchange got hacked. that's like saying the USD got hacked vs. BoA got hacked (which happens all the time).

many banks are actively researching blockchain technology right now. brute thinks this is going to be a big thing in finance/banking soon. it's such a resilient ledger, which seems to be very important in banking.

Ydobon
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Ydobon » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:26 am

I would be interested in buying BTC with a very small amount of my fun money (basically gambling and a chance to find out more about the technology, which is fascinating).

Does anyone have any tips for someone just starting out?

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stayhigh
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by stayhigh » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:36 am

Ydobon wrote:Does anyone have any tips for someone just starting out?
I'd recommend spending some time reading this, for better understanding:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page

Ydobon
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Ydobon » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:37 am

stayhigh wrote:
Ydobon wrote:Does anyone have any tips for someone just starting out?
I'd recommend spending some time reading this, for better understanding:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
Thanks for that.

steveo73
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by steveo73 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:12 am

I'm bumping this thread because I've been reading up on bitcoin. I think a crypto-currency makes a tonne of sense. At the moment there are a tonne of these crypto-currencies but bitcoin is definitely the largest.

I'm not sold on investing in bitcoins but I'm going to buy a tiny amount and use it just to experiment. I think as part of my cash savings I'd like to have some bitcoins or other crypto-currency.

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Seppia
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Seppia » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:29 am

I am more skeptical honestly.
What, ultimately, gives any currency its value?
I think if we dig enough, we have to get to the conclusion that the real reason why a piece of paper with a dead president's face drawn on it it commonly accepted as form of payment is the fact that the US government only accepts said currency as a form of payment for taxes.

Bitcoin does not have that.
It's a piece of code, it has zero "real" value, aside from the fact some people are willing to accept it as form of payment.
The same people could tomorrow decide to utilize rocks, and the Bitcoin value would immediately become zero.

It is unlikely that the us government will shift to rocks, since they are the ones printing dollars.

Not saying Bitcoin is useless, I know it has its advantages, but I would never own them for more than a day or two (just the time needed for an eventual Bitcoin based transaction)

Even if there was not this type of problem, I would not consider investing in a currency.
It's speculating, not investing, in my opinion.

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by steveo73 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:57 am

Seppia - I also wouldn't invest in a currency. I just think the risk is too high. I have traded currencies and still do but I don't do it a lot.

I like the concept of crypto-currencies a lot though. They are worldwide currencies with trivial barriers of exchange. It doesn't cost a fortune to transfer funds from my account to someone else's account. Banks get much less opportunities to gauge fees from us.

I think as a form of money they make more sense than US dollars or gold or any other currency.

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Seppia
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Seppia » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:40 am

Bank fees?
In the last 6 years I got a significant amount of money out of banks (a minimum of around $500 per year, but I never kept precise track) via credit card churning (I'm not counting the ongoing rewards because those are built in the price of goods, just the bonuses) than they did from me in fees (probably $50-60 per year in international transfers).

Now that I'm back in Italy I unfortunately cannot make money on banks but my fees are zero

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:25 am

Seppia wrote:What, ultimately, gives any currency its value?
I think if we dig enough, we have to get to the conclusion that the real reason why a piece of paper with a dead president's face drawn on it it commonly accepted as form of payment is the fact that the US government only accepts said currency as a form of payment for taxes.
that certainly helps. but the real answer to the question is, "because humans expect other humans to accept it". this is usually roughly based on "other humans accepted dollars yesterday, so they'll likely accept them again tomorrow". absent catastrophic hyperinflation or civil war, this is usually a correct gamble.

as examples, humans in many non-US countries accept US dollars, because it's accepted well enough in their countries. in contrast, many US citizens accept bitcoin even though they can't use it to pay their taxes with the US government. but they know it had a certain value yesterday, and they speculate that it'll have a similar value tomorrow.

brute isn't entirely sure where the difference between speculation and investment is. clearly bitcoin is more risky a currency than the USD, and probably most other currencies (except maybe the EURO :D).

so it'll depend on an individual's risk tolerance and actual use. bitcoin is amazing for some types of payments. it's like internet cash. no credit card numbers, no risk of getting identity stolen, no counter party risk for the bank (unless using 3rd party wallet), relatively high privacy, relatively fast (actually depends a bit on luck these days because of core BTC protocol problems, sometimes it can take a few hours). and it's much more convenient than typing in CC information, there's a link to click, checking the balance is correct, clicking ok, done.

steveo73
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by steveo73 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:31 am

BRUTE wrote: bitcoin is amazing for some types of payments. it's like internet cash. no credit card numbers, no risk of getting identity stolen, no counter party risk for the bank (unless using 3rd party wallet), relatively high privacy, relatively fast (actually depends a bit on luck these days because of core BTC protocol problems, sometimes it can take a few hours). and it's much more convenient than typing in CC information, there's a link to click, checking the balance is correct, clicking ok, done.
There seems to me to be so much upside. I'd love to see a crypto-currency become an international currency that is utillised for everything.

In Australia there is a company that has set-up an app/web-page to pay most bills via bitcoin.

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:10 pm

brute thinks similarly. it's so convenient when it works, and there are quite a number of gateways/connections. brute has met a few people that travel exclusively using bitcoin - buying flights, booking hotels.. it can be more work, but it can often be done.

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bryan
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by bryan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:57 pm

Bitcoin up 20% in the 1 month since last post.

fyi Zcash launched last week. It is the fork of Bitcoin that introduces encrypted entries in the public ledger for from/to/amount. Possible to create and validate transactactions thanks to zero knowledge proofs: zk-SNARKS. I've been researching it and it seems extremely experimental and risky at the moment. For instance it required a trusted setup of the public params based on a new protocol that was only published two days ago. The nature of this technology/blockchain also means that if a particular type of flaw is found in the software it could mean counterfeiting of coins without the capability to detect or roll-back (hard-fork).

Do your research before thinking about buying into this stuff. For instance the mining/monetary policy of the first few thousand blocks of zcash plus release hype means extremely limited supply and a ton of demand. Personally, I would only be comfortable with trading electricity costs to try to mint some with a GPU. If a some weeks go by without getting any, I might consider buying a small amount, on the order of ~.25% of NW.

The technology/model could be extremely attractive to the corporate world. There is some work being done in corporations to tweak Bitcoin to use trusted mining ("permissioned ledgers") which eliminates the capital/energy waste of Bitcoin (at the cost of losing "decentralized"/"trust-less"/"permission-less" features) while allowing some easier access to ledgers across corps. However, you can imagine wanting to keep some things off of the public books (so these experiments would be practically limited to certain, no harm in being public, uses)... Now with this technology, you could now combine these experiments with the trusted setup and code of zcash to achieve a a blockchain like before, but is now private.

I've always felt a big organization introducing a Bitcoin competitor has always been a major risk to Bitcoin.. this technology may make it more palatable for some governments or corporations.

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