In my mind, this ties to ERE REIT or Nullhof, etc. I am pretty sure I already mentioned it in one form or another too.
Basically loaning money to ERE up and comers, etc.
It is sort of like the military almost, except that an ERE recipient would serve ERE so to speak.
I think I just talked in a circle, but my point might have been made...
This could also tie in to trading skills too - like, teach me to swim, I teach you to drink...or something
Investing in each other (Peer to Peer 4 ERE)
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Steve Austin
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If you want to move this to a new topic, I recommend: "Laundrolab; capital and parts for seeding a Nullhof"
ERE ACTUAL mentioned the quality of inertia re: these topics, I believe it was in a blog post.
Let's vamp on some new approaches, and try to synthesize something that may not sound practical, but under the hood actually is. E.g. how about laundromats on the store front, with fab labs / hackerspaces in the back offices? The laundromat would be the cash flow to fund the hackerspace, and it's the hackerspace that would deliver some combination of boutique goods and services, which in turn would be a bootstrapping operation for another gig, such as a Nullhof. What I'm most interested in with this suggestion is DIY fabrication of energy harvesting equipment for installation at a Nullhof: don't buy a wind turbine, build parts in your laundrolab.
Feedback: fab lab would provide replacement parts for the laundry equipment; run DIY energy harvesting experiments on the rooftop of the laundrolab, laundry being an apparently energy-intensive operation?
Flexibility: owners of the laundrolab would be free to tune the free cash flow to whatever desired combination of payout from the laundry side / investment in the lab side.
Motivation: not sure yet exactly, but I'll quote a musician whose interview I listened to recently (he was commenting on why collaborators often change direction): "it's real simple: we're just trying to not be bored".
EDIT for omitted words
ERE ACTUAL mentioned the quality of inertia re: these topics, I believe it was in a blog post.
Let's vamp on some new approaches, and try to synthesize something that may not sound practical, but under the hood actually is. E.g. how about laundromats on the store front, with fab labs / hackerspaces in the back offices? The laundromat would be the cash flow to fund the hackerspace, and it's the hackerspace that would deliver some combination of boutique goods and services, which in turn would be a bootstrapping operation for another gig, such as a Nullhof. What I'm most interested in with this suggestion is DIY fabrication of energy harvesting equipment for installation at a Nullhof: don't buy a wind turbine, build parts in your laundrolab.
Feedback: fab lab would provide replacement parts for the laundry equipment; run DIY energy harvesting experiments on the rooftop of the laundrolab, laundry being an apparently energy-intensive operation?
Flexibility: owners of the laundrolab would be free to tune the free cash flow to whatever desired combination of payout from the laundry side / investment in the lab side.
Motivation: not sure yet exactly, but I'll quote a musician whose interview I listened to recently (he was commenting on why collaborators often change direction): "it's real simple: we're just trying to not be bored".
EDIT for omitted words
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Steve Austin
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incomplete previous post, some further comments as I was clearly not done with the initial idea:
I am temporarily fond of this laundrolab -- Nullhof pairing, the former keeping a foot in the capital-centric "System(tm)" in town, the latter pushing the boundaries of resilience and freedom outside of town -- this is portfolio diversification, working both in-system and extra-system
how is this peer-to-peer 4 ERE? laundrolab owners may wish to prefer "hiring" ERErs to get started at a Nullhof by first working their way up, the storefront laundry operation, then "promotion" later into the back office lab area space management like a research assistantship / trade apprenticeship; eventually, could work one's way up to be allowed to work at the laundrolab's sibling Nullhof, preferably with some ecological apprenticeship having been done over the course of 1-4 years "service" in various roles at the laundrolab (there's the military training concept per Q's original post)
again, my concern for how non-ERErs might view this all as cultish -- care would have be taken to describe all this in very mundane street terms, akin to a dead-end job as a "middle manager" running a 7-Eleven, instead of something more promising -- under no circumstances would we want a laundrolab to get any attention, or any press whatsoever, even from somewhere with legitimate interest like a sustainability journal or something -- the Nullhof itself must be referred to innocuously, as "hunting" or "camping" or something "lower middle class" like that
can't really expect much social support from in town -- just have to quietly and competently get it done outside of town
I am temporarily fond of this laundrolab -- Nullhof pairing, the former keeping a foot in the capital-centric "System(tm)" in town, the latter pushing the boundaries of resilience and freedom outside of town -- this is portfolio diversification, working both in-system and extra-system
how is this peer-to-peer 4 ERE? laundrolab owners may wish to prefer "hiring" ERErs to get started at a Nullhof by first working their way up, the storefront laundry operation, then "promotion" later into the back office lab area space management like a research assistantship / trade apprenticeship; eventually, could work one's way up to be allowed to work at the laundrolab's sibling Nullhof, preferably with some ecological apprenticeship having been done over the course of 1-4 years "service" in various roles at the laundrolab (there's the military training concept per Q's original post)
again, my concern for how non-ERErs might view this all as cultish -- care would have be taken to describe all this in very mundane street terms, akin to a dead-end job as a "middle manager" running a 7-Eleven, instead of something more promising -- under no circumstances would we want a laundrolab to get any attention, or any press whatsoever, even from somewhere with legitimate interest like a sustainability journal or something -- the Nullhof itself must be referred to innocuously, as "hunting" or "camping" or something "lower middle class" like that
can't really expect much social support from in town -- just have to quietly and competently get it done outside of town
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jacob
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The real problem, for any kind of geographically restricted collaboration, is that the [ERE] density is still very very low. For population dense areas like Chicagoland, the Bay Area, and New York City, we seem to be attracting about a handful of people.
Now, there's only a fraction who are willing/capable of relocating slightly (spousal ties, housal ties (I just made up a word)), so applying that fraction to 4-5 people is gonna dunk it below critical mass.
Now, there's only a fraction who are willing/capable of relocating slightly (spousal ties, housal ties (I just made up a word)), so applying that fraction to 4-5 people is gonna dunk it below critical mass.
To toss onto Steve Austin's idea (which is radically awesome). I think the Paul Graham Y-Combinator startup incubator idea would work very well here.
Folks would apply to become part of 1-year ERE monastic & celibate stays.
The stay could be equal part:
-ERE research project - pushing the boundaries on saving & investment strategies
-Building ERE businesses, services, products
-self-teaching each other ERE skills
Jacob is host and professor emeritus. He has to find space for everybody to sleep and help teach his skills in frugality
He takes a cut on success of anything from #2 in order to recoup costs.
Folks would apply to become part of 1-year ERE monastic & celibate stays.
The stay could be equal part:
-ERE research project - pushing the boundaries on saving & investment strategies
-Building ERE businesses, services, products
-self-teaching each other ERE skills
Jacob is host and professor emeritus. He has to find space for everybody to sleep and help teach his skills in frugality
He takes a cut on success of anything from #2 in order to recoup costs.-
jacob
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Buying a *plex and only advertising it on the blog ... I'd be interested in that. I'll just take the rent payments then
However, would anyone actually move there?
An informal poll of the REIT/Nullhof protagonists: Would you actually be willing to move to another city/state to make this work? Personally, I could/would, but I'm also tied down by DW, so realistically, probably not.
However, would anyone actually move there?
An informal poll of the REIT/Nullhof protagonists: Would you actually be willing to move to another city/state to make this work? Personally, I could/would, but I'm also tied down by DW, so realistically, probably not.
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Steve Austin
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I'd be willing to spend at least 6 months of every year on (or near) site for a Nullhof/ERE REIT gig. The balance would be on other projects (yet to be arranged) or hobbies.
I notice you mention another city/state without reference to country (US implied?) What about the southern and northern neighbors as project sites?
Would a Canadian be so kind as to hold forth re: corporate ownership of real estate?
And to keep the other continents in play, any others willing to point out possibilities? Central Asia? Mongolia? South America? Southern Africa? Personally, I would have a hard time with anything equatorial.
I notice you mention another city/state without reference to country (US implied?) What about the southern and northern neighbors as project sites?
Would a Canadian be so kind as to hold forth re: corporate ownership of real estate?
And to keep the other continents in play, any others willing to point out possibilities? Central Asia? Mongolia? South America? Southern Africa? Personally, I would have a hard time with anything equatorial.
I think it can work here Jacob. Honestly, if I were to pony up say, 25k, and you too, and maybe 2 to 3 others, that outright buys a plex further north (Redding). Only of the 5 of us would *need* to live there, if anyone.
It all stems from the leap, and not the do. Easy to do, hard to leap.
The same set-up could be said for a laundromat outright. It would cost roughly 150k - so thats 6 people @ 25k each, and the basic agreement is to split profit 6 ways. 1 of the 6 is a manager and accepts it, possible taking slightly more. LM's typically make 3k average a month after all is said and done, but could be higher. That's 6k/yr per person, returns on investment in 4 or 5 years, maybe less...
6-14k is the ideal expenses of an ERE right? I think anything under the Single, no children tax bracket. The rest of ERE funds could come from PP.
Somehow this all makes sense in my head, just to be on the honest side.
It all stems from the leap, and not the do. Easy to do, hard to leap.
The same set-up could be said for a laundromat outright. It would cost roughly 150k - so thats 6 people @ 25k each, and the basic agreement is to split profit 6 ways. 1 of the 6 is a manager and accepts it, possible taking slightly more. LM's typically make 3k average a month after all is said and done, but could be higher. That's 6k/yr per person, returns on investment in 4 or 5 years, maybe less...
6-14k is the ideal expenses of an ERE right? I think anything under the Single, no children tax bracket. The rest of ERE funds could come from PP.
Somehow this all makes sense in my head, just to be on the honest side.
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jacob
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Here's a plan. Buy a travel trailer for $5-10,000. Move in here at $350-$450/month. We can set up shop across the street for very little money.
In think "very little money" is key, at least it is for me. I wouldn't want to sink $50,000 (one share of business and one share of residence) into a project which might not work.
Doing it this way would show whether it is viable. In particular, I don't want to fall into the "if you buy or it register for it, it will happen"-trap; you know, the "I want to be a woodworker, so if I buy all the tools, I'll become one".
"Bootstrapping all the way" is my motto.
In think "very little money" is key, at least it is for me. I wouldn't want to sink $50,000 (one share of business and one share of residence) into a project which might not work.
Doing it this way would show whether it is viable. In particular, I don't want to fall into the "if you buy or it register for it, it will happen"-trap; you know, the "I want to be a woodworker, so if I buy all the tools, I'll become one".
"Bootstrapping all the way" is my motto.
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Steve Austin
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I'll ruminate on the move-to-California plan and go off-forum on it later. (For humor on-forum, I admit to having biases against California, likely stereotypical; I've visited several times, and despite enjoying myself, the beautiful weather and terrain, had some concerns about the people of the state; maybe just a bad encounter or something, but more than several people seemed to be on low-dosage soma (Huxley-style), what I'd describe as "empty contentment" or "faux zen" or something; standing by for disabuse by the fine Californians here. For frame of reference, I am a friendly midwesterner who has been 1) somewhat "cosmopolitanized" by the US Armed Forces, and 2) likely afflicted by some east coast crowd malaise over the years.)
But back on-topic, I want to hear more about whats-across-the-street (from ERE ACTUAL's place of residence). Fab-lab-ready premises?
EDIT for Huxley reference
For frame of reference, I am a friendly midwesterner who has been 1) somewhat "cosmopolitanized" by the US Armed Forces, and 2) likely afflicted by some east coast crowd malaise over the years.)But back on-topic, I want to hear more about whats-across-the-street (from ERE ACTUAL's place of residence). Fab-lab-ready premises?
EDIT for Huxley reference
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jacob
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I think they call soma weed around here ... actually, I suspect it's more the temperature which leads to more of a siesta mindset compared to the scrambling colder protestant work ethic.
It's a storage lot (trucks, campers, yachts, bulldozers, and other industrial equipment) the size of 2 football fields with a couple of big sheetmetal buildings on it (no idea what they do in there, metal working noises come out of them). I've seen people put up additional temporary sheds/barrack tents to work there. I'm not sure, it's open to establish a bona-fide permanent licensed business, but I'd expect it to be open for projects. How big is this fab-lab? How movable is it?
It's a storage lot (trucks, campers, yachts, bulldozers, and other industrial equipment) the size of 2 football fields with a couple of big sheetmetal buildings on it (no idea what they do in there, metal working noises come out of them). I've seen people put up additional temporary sheds/barrack tents to work there. I'm not sure, it's open to establish a bona-fide permanent licensed business, but I'd expect it to be open for projects. How big is this fab-lab? How movable is it?