Where Do You Stand Among Your Peers?

[GandK]

Can you guys not imagine how much harder your lives might have been if you'd been born into or grew up in different circumstances? What if you had been born in the ghetto, or in a third world country? What if you were in a car accident or received an injury or illness that prevented you from working and you had to apply for disability, etc?

Not commenting on people here specifically, but I think there are people who literally can't. I've lived with a few. If they hadn't been through something themselves, they didn't get it. I think empathy is on a spectrum with narcissism, and everyone is somewhere upon it (not of their own choosing, BTW). So I think you're right that no amount of arguing will move anyone's individual needle.

I've also observed that people who climb out of a bad situation on their own often have little patience with others who do not. "If I can do it, you can too!" That is not always true. It IS true that trying to replicate others' success is far more likely to lead to success than complaining about past failures, which is where conflict really emerges in this argument. It's careless to suggest that everyone can succeed because I can, and if they don't they're lazy... it's lazy to complain about failures or about others' success without really trying to succeed oneself. Both sides have a point.

@S_W, I'm glad you posted the article. Whether politics and emotion belongs in this discussion or not, lack of awareness of the savings rates of our peers definitely won't solve/help anything. I guess I'm glad I know there's a storm coming...

[SimpleLife]

x2 slsdly, x2 Sclass. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this.

I would much rather have society's downtrodden in Section 8 apartments receiving food stamps and medical care at my expense than rioting on my front lawn or starting a bloody revolution at my much greater expense.

I also find the "all poor people are lazy moochers" meme incredibly lacking in basic reasoning and empathy. Can you guys not imagine how much harder your lives might have been if you'd been born into or grew up in different circumstances? What if you had been born in the ghetto, or in a third world country? What if you were in a car accident or received an injury or illness that prevented you from working and you had to apply for disability, etc?

Is it that hard to think past the boogie man of the stereotypical welfare queen? A caricature I have never met, btw. And again, if they exist, would you rather they NOT be supported by a safety net? What do you think they'd do in the alternative? Just roll over and die? LOL.

I also can't resist the urge to point out that Republican policies have been lowering the median wealth for decades. If there are more "poor" people today, it's because of Republican-sponsored wealth stratification.

Finally, I seriously doubt that anyone has ever convinced anyone else to change their core political beliefs through a debate on the internet. Which is why this is the last I'll say on these topics.

That is the fundemental problem though. You must license your pet, your firearm, your car and what not. You must have a license to be a hair dresser, to be a pet groomer, etc. Yet every low life with a 6th grade education can pop out kids they can neither afford nor manage to take care of. What do we do? We redsitribute wealth from those who made better choices to those who made poor ones. Hundreds of years ago, if you couldn't fend for yourself, you DIED. Now, they get free food at the swipe of their EBT card, and rent vouchers, with no real plan to get OFF the program. That's your solution? lol You are part of the problem, because you want to put a bandaid on it, rather than preventing it from happening to begin with.

I find your reasoning quite one sided. Where you are born is not the deciding factor of your success. I WAS born in a third world country FYI. I've lived on three continents. You act like success is some kind of magic based on where you are born. I've got news for you, people make choices that determine their fate: college vs gangs; pregnancy vs a job; jail vs the library.

If I chose to drop out, have 8 kids, I wouldn't be a financially successful adult. Instead I chose to go to college, avoid trouble, not get anyone pregnant, etc. It isn't magic my friend...the very struggles you speak of but have never had exposure to...I've faced them. And I came out on top. Choices were the difference. And believe me, my parents weren't exactly some kind of scholars pushing me to go to MIT.

Some politicians want this because the lazy and inept are the majority, and by catering to the majority, they ensure they get their votes. Talking about it raises awareness. Why does it matter to you if people talk about it? Or do you just not want people to talk about it because you don't agree? Whether you seriously believe it or not is up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that it does happen. I know you will be impossible to convince, because you can't seem to fathom that success is dependent on individual choices, not democrat handouts and wealth redistribution from those who earned it to those who sit around popping out kids when they shouldn't be. As it stands now, the very system you defend and rationalize so much, is set up to reward people for not working, and having more and more kids.

[SimpleLife]

There we are. Clearly this lady is on welfare because she was born with 15 kids already in her womb. It's not because she made bad choices, like getting knocked up 15 times instead of going to college. Nope. It's because of where she was born. A country where you can get loans to go to school and make something of yourself. Some people just don't get it, and you're right, no ammount of logic or facts will ever convince them.

Welfare Mother with 15 Kids says "Somebody Needs to Pay for all my Children!"


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 7201,d.eXY

[George the original one]

So you're condemning the 15 kids because of their mother?!?

For what it's worth, I tinkered with the State of Washington's food benefits calculator to see what people are actually eligible for. A family of 5 with no means can get a maximum of $750/mo for their food needs ($150/person/mo) and that same family with a $24k/yr income would get $350/mo in benefits. http://foodhelp.wa.gov/bf_benefit_estimator.htm

[C40]

Tyler and Simplelife - Why do you guys keep doing this? This thread is about how much wealth people have. It is NOT in the politics section of the forum.

You guys are derailing threads.

[Dragline]

So not complaining is going to solve the problem? Raising awareness is wrong? I vote too, but I think it's more likely to affect change if we are vocal about it instead of ignoring it, or making excuses for it, or rationalizing it. I've convinced more than a few people to vote republican.

I think you are likely mistaken in this assessment --especially with this audience, who are already plenty aware. At least you would need to subtract off all of the people who had an equally negative reaction to your discourse. Most of this sort of thing is only effective when "preaching to the choir."

When I hear people complaining about other people, especially with broad-based rhetoric, I generally have a negative reaction, regardless of the viewpoint, unless they actually were the direct victim of a beating, robbery, bullying, fraud, abandonment, etc.

I hear way too much "they're not the victims -- see, look at what I found on the internet -- this proves we're the REAL victims" type rhetoric from all sides these days. It ends up just sounding whiny and not very convincing.

Now getting back to the original question, I believe I stand several inches above my peers, even though I've lost about half an inch from my younger days. But I'm not complaining.