Best books on depression?

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TopHatFox
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Best books on depression?

Post by TopHatFox »

It'd be useful to learn more about depression, considering it has been/is on a rapid rise. Anything from externally-caused, temperorary depression to psysiological, chronic depression would be useful. Usually I tend to only experience the former, but I have had partners with the latter and wish I'd known more.

Anyway, what are some good books on depression/dealing with depression?

chenda
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by chenda »

This is worth a look: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Depression-Cur ... 0091929814

It didn't work for me, but he has some good ideas.

halfmoon
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by halfmoon »

scriptbunny wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 7:46 am
Hyperbole and a Half.
What a great link! I found the description of depression very enlightening, and it helped me to better understand what my DH is going through. Also: the humorous stories (not the ones about depression, obviously) are truly hilarious. Some of them brought tears to my eyes from laughing. Thanks for sharing this.

slowtraveler
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by slowtraveler »

Not a book but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc is an interesting lecture from Stanford's Human Behavioral Biology Lecture Series about depression.

subgard
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by subgard »

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampir ... l+vampires

Staying away from people like this will help out symptoms of depression.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by EdithKeeler »

"The Noonday Demon" by Andrew Solomon is excellent. Very well researched and informative.

William Styron's "Darkness Visible" is a very personal account of his depression.

"Shoot the Damn Dog" is also good--Sally Brampton's account of her depression.

Yeah, depression is sort of a hobby of mine....

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GandK
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by GandK »

EdithKeeler wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:39 pm
Yeah, depression is sort of a hobby of mine....
Me too, girl. :(

Ditto the Andrew Solomon recommendation. He's the man when it comes to depression. He's had it, he's done PhD-level research all over the world on it, he teaches it, and he writes about it. His TED talks alone are gold. If you really want to understand this condition, I'd start with him:

Depression, the secret we share

ThisDinosaur
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

SlateStarCodex has a post up about the current scientific consensus (or lack of one) about what causes depression. Full of links about things that are proven to work for depression.

JamesR
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by JamesR »

Reading books on depression sounds depressing. :P

Sometimes depression is a phase that takes months to get through. So it requires patience and there's not necessarily any "cure" for it. The best thing to do is to try to be a "highly functioning" person despite the depression.

I've struggled with depression from between ages 17 & 30. One of the last times that I got majorly depressed - brain fog, motivation issues. To handle the depression, I started running and taking cold showers. I ran every 2 days and took cold showers most days. I became a "high functioning" depressed person. After about 4 months the brain fog finally went away.

I think I get depressed less now because I just keep on functioning, I don't let it change my behaviours as much anymore. But that's probably not something that helps people that haven't been through depression a few times before, and recognize that life still goes on and they might as well just go through the motions properly and focus on being healthy until they get through it.

biaggio
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by biaggio »

chenda wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 3:43 pm
This is worth a look: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Depression-Cur ... 0091929814

It didn't work for me, but he has some good ideas.
This book contains some common sense advice, advocating exercise, sun exposure, socializing, healthy sleep habits, et cetera. When you filter out bull**it I'd say it's really a good book (that could have been compressed to a third of its current length if the author excluded naive patient stories and the like).

If people actually managed to change lifestyle in the manner advocated in the book, I bet most would get better. Recommended (assuming you have some tolerance for wordy writing, patient stories, etc.).

Stahlmann
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by Stahlmann »

Contact professional ASAP (if you think you suffer from).
I had not and I regret a lot.

I know we are EREmites so we like to think "they received education from X university, their curriculum is Y, so psychiatrists offer Z product, I can read A book", but I think there cognitive biases are really strong (against you)...


Intereting, how they teach about them in medical shcools.

TopHatFox
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by TopHatFox »

@Stahlman: I think I might have morning depression. My motivation during the morning is usually relatively low. It's when I might ruminate about old failures, or want to fall right back to bed. Sometimes when I look back to the morning from the afternoon or evening, I think: "damn, why didn't I get up earlier? And why was *that* such a large concern?"

Do any of you experience something similar? If so, how do you deal with it?

--------

I've been trying to:

1. Just get up anyway
2. Taking a cold shower
3. Shutting down rumination w/ stoic thinking
4. Learn more about depression

EdithKeeler
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by EdithKeeler »

This book contains some common sense advice, advocating exercise, sun exposure, socializing, healthy sleep habits, et cetera. When you filter out bull**it I'd say it's really a good book (that could have been compressed to a third of its current length if the author excluded naive patient stories and the like).

If people actually managed to change lifestyle in the manner advocated in the book, I bet most would get better. Recommended (assuming you have some tolerance for wordy writing, patient stories, etc.).
Top
OK, here's my take on depression: just about everyone is different. Some people are helped by diet and exercise, some people are helped by St. John's Wort, some are probably helped by the laying on of hands. Some are helped by some meds, some are helped by others, and for still others, maybe nothing works.

Depression is, in my experience, insidious. Here is my little story, and feel free to skip it.

I suffered a pretty severe bout with depression, and until I hit "rock bottom," i never even considered that I was depressed. Turns out I had "atypical depression," which is, yeah, not typical. And the symptoms can always be explained by other things--I was going to work every day, laughing, talking, socializing...I was not curled up in a fetal position on the sofa. BUT: I developed insomnia (but hey, everyone has times when they can't sleep, right?) I started waking up before the alarm clock, mind racing about what I had to do that day. Then I started waking up at 4:30, then 4... pretty soon I was waking up a 2 AM. It was great when I was waking up at 4--I'd go to 24 hour fitness and work out--hey, I'll work out, good for me, and that'll make me tired so I'll sleep better tonight! Great! And it sort of was, at first. But then I was up at 2 AM, and not so fun anymore, night after night, and I tried to convince myself that the nap I took every day when I came home from work was sufficient (I'd collapse on the sofa and sleep for 20 minutes after work). Of course it wasn't.

I started having panic attacks. While I've always been an anxious worry-wort, I'd never had the heart racing, cold sweat think you're having a heart attack full blown panic attack. It was horrible. This was a time when my work was pretty awful, and I convinced myself that having a panic attack on the way to work in the morning was normal (!!) because we were so busy and I was so devoted to my job and wanted to make everything work better. And the panic attack on the way HOME from work was because I didn't get everything done, but I'd go home and get a good night's sleep and be ready tomorrow... (but of course I wasn't sleeping).

I gained weight (but hey, who doesn't who works at a desk all day, right?). I started to get a little cranky with people (just a busy time at work). I stopped doing the stuff I enjoyed (who has time to go to the movies or read a book?). And I kept getting sick. I never had gotten sick before but I picked up a cold, it didn't go away, and I lived with bronchitis for a while (just a cough--I feel fine!) that eventually turned into double pneumonia and 3 days in the hospital.

But none of that clued me in that anything was wrong until I started driving to work and contemplating ramming my car into the concrete wall at high speed. (OK, I'll undo my seatbelt, and I'll have to figure out how to disable the airbags, because I want to make sure I die instead of just getting really hurt) and planning how to axphixiate myself in the garage with the car (dammit, in order to make that work I have to disable the catalytic converter, and I don't know how to do that, so I guess I'll go buy a generator...) and it was those thoughts that made me realize "HOLY SHIT! You are fucked up!!"

So I got help. The best help in the world was being able to SLEEP (to this day I'm convinced that the lack of sleep was the biggest problem that led pretty much to all the other crazy), and I was on meds for about a year, but I don't take anything now.

I know now that stress is a depression trigger for me, so I try very hard now to manage my stress. When all of the above happened, I had moved to a new city and taken a new job, and 10 days after I got there, my dad died unexpectedly. I didn't really process my dad's death and just THREW myself into the job, which was a hot mess, with a horrible boss... and the financial crisis hit, and the company was having issues, we couldn't keep employees, and they made me in charge of more than double the responsibilities after someone quit, because they didn't want to hire anyone else. And I was in a relationship with someone, and got pregnant, had a miscarriage, relationship ended, my mom was diagnosed with Parkinson's.... and with everything, I just kept throwing myself at the work because it was the one thing I knew how to do and had some measure of control over.

I'm good now, though I am careful to take a day off when I need to, and I don't bite off more than I can chew, and when I have a sleepless night or two, i pay attention, and if it becomes an issue (so far is hasn't), I'll deal with it properly. I actually probably live with a little depression all the time (hey, now I Know what it actually is!!) but I'd rather do that than deal with meds, none of which helped me much and all of which had side effects that affected other aspects of my life.

But if you talk to other people who have or who are dealing with depression, their symptoms and stories are probably going to be much different.

The only thing I can tell you is, don't try to diagnose and cure yourself. If you thought you had cancer or a broken leg or kidney failure, you wouldn't buy a book and try a diet. Well, maybe you would (OK, I would), but you'd also go to the doctor and get some help. Before you start researching how to disable your airbags or catalytic converter, research local docs in your area!

Oh, and here's my final tip: if you think you need inpatient treatment, research it first. I checked myself in to a facility when it got really bad, and like I said, after 2 days of good sleep, I was WAY better--not cured, but not suicidal, However, in the state I lived in, they actually have the right to keep you for a certain number of days, and even if you try to check yourself out, your doctor can keep you in for so many more days if he thinks it's best... so I was in for 9 days, 9 of the absolutely weirdest (but sort of entertaining, in retrospect) days of my life. If you need inpatient, absolutely do it... but if you need treatment, get it before you really need inpatient if at all possible. I was afraid I'd checked into Hotel California there for a while.....

I can write about all the now, since it's been several years ago. I don't think that depression and mental health issues have the stigma attached that they used to (no, I'm still not going to tell this story to my boss and coworkers and everyone I meet), but I think people are more able to talk about this stuff and hear the issues than people were several years ago.

TopHatFox
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by TopHatFox »

Wow, thank you for sharing! I completely agree, depression comes about so different in people. One person I know has tried it all and still feels nothing. For others, they have the occasional bout that can be defeated with positive thinking and a better diet.

Stahlmann
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by Stahlmann »

I think I might have morning depression. My motivation during the morning is usually relatively low. It's when I might ruminate about old failures, or want to fall right back to bed. Sometimes when I look back to the morning from the afternoon or evening, I think: "damn, why didn't I get up earlier? And why was *that* such a large concern?"
I hope you will never experience real depression... (this can be some kind of enlightment too... -> allusion to the Vipasanna topic)

I do not want to turn this topic into locker's room bragging, but...

How about spending 19-20h hours in bed and staring at the ceiling? And feeling nothingness?
And following this behaviour for some weeks?
And then repeating it some times?

I think you stress yourself too much (results: overthinking everything in the morning) and you are looking for problem where they are not (from the rest of your post you are doing fine, but it is only my opinion).

slowtraveler
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by slowtraveler »

@Olaz
"how do you deal"

I have a morning ritual. When I get up, I drink water, hygiene, meditate for a few minutes, have some vegetable soup, and ideally-get some sun/walk or do some form of exercise. I set the bar extremely low for as much as I can so it's horribly easy to do. On a bad day, I give myself permission to meditate for 2 breaths and count it done if that's what I feel like doing. I almost always end up doing more than 2 breathes.

I feel horrible if I sleep under 7 hours but 8 hours is best so if I haven't slept 8 hours, I'll lie in bed and feel my body weight on the matress till I pass out.

sl-owl-orris
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by sl-owl-orris »

I used to suffer from a very debilitating form of depression, where it seemed extremely difficult, if not impossible to get out of the bed, to change clothes, to wash myself, to sleep at night etc. I also felt emotionally numb and seemed to be surrendered by thick fog, where it was very hard to stay focused, to reason, etc. It started gradually, and I still don't know for sure what caused it, but at some point, it was really bad, dangerously so.

Things which I think helped me:
  • Admitting that it might be depression. Just recognising that I was ill and, therefore wasn't to blame, was liberating. Also, you can cure illnesses and get better or at least you can alleviate the symptoms.

    Going to see a doctor, who confirmed depression. You get some validation for feeling this crappy, which does help.

    Taking antidepressants. At first, my doctor was strongly against them, as they have many side-effects and are strongly addictive, however, I was getting worse and I couldn't function. I went back and asked the doctor for the pills and I was given Fluoxetine (Prozac), which didn't make me feel better but gave me the strength to go through the motions of the day. I only took it for several months, until I was sure I could maintain my routine without it and quit taking it without consulting the doctor. I didn't want to become addicted.

    Leaving the house every day. At first, it was extremely difficult, but even going out for 5 minutes to go around the block counted. And it did help.

    Looking at myself in the mirror daily. During the darkest times I couldn't face myself in the mirror, and if I had to check my appearance, I would do it very quickly, avoiding looking myself in the eyes.

    Changing diet to whole foods plant based. Within days I noticed less lethargy, more energy, lightness and generally I felt better. I also could quit taking stomach meds (which I've been told I will probably need to take for the rest of my life), as I no longer experienced any pain and could sleep better.

    Sleep hygiene. Making effort to air out the room, to try to go to bed around the same time every day, not spending time in bed other than for sleeping, etc. All that really helped to improve the quality of my sleep.

    Sharing with friends and family and getting their support. Many people don't understand depression and will tell you to "get over yourself", "cheer up" and make other unhelpful comments. The point is, they don't have to understand it to be there for you, so it's helpful to have someone see you through the tough times. I'm lucky to have a very supporting husband, who really stood by me and motivated me to get better.

    Connecting with nature. Visiting parks, petting dogs, cats, and other animals, watching the clouds. Nature is so powerful, that experiencing it gave me glimpses out of the fog in my mind.

    Listening to music. I discovered it's a powerful tool to assess how deep in depression I was. There was a moment when I thought I was past depression, but then we went to a concert of my favourite band and I realised I'm far from cured. I could appreciate the music and the show on intellectual level, but had no emotional response. Ever since then, I used my response to music as a barometer of my mental state. If you have been depressed for a while it may not be easy to tell when you are back to normal, because you have no recollection of what 'normal' is.

    Exercise is also good. Releases endorphins, good for your health, etc. (although I'm very inconsistent here).
All in all, I consider myself totally not depressed. I'm very happy lately and enjoy life so much more since experiencing depression. If anyone who is experiencing it right now would like to talk, I'm very happy to do so, either here or through private message.

Have any of you tried eating saffron? I know that some users on this forum dislike Dr Greger, however, it seems like an easy and relatively inexpensive form of therapy, so it may be worth trying. Besides you can make wicked risotto milanese :D

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/best-f ... sfunction/

halfmoon
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by halfmoon »

EdithKeeler wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:33 pm
OK, here's my take on depression: just about everyone is different. Some people are helped by diet and exercise, some people are helped by St. John's Wort, some are probably helped by the laying on of hands. Some are helped by some meds, some are helped by others, and for still others, maybe nothing works.
I somehow missed this post back in June, but it speaks to me so clearly. Depression is a very broad term encompassing a range of functionality. Like you, I was high-functioning depressive (no problem waking up at 4AM! More time to GET THINGS DONE!!). Of course, that progressed to waking up at 3 and then 2, then lying in bed crying because I couldn't sleep and couldn't figure out a way to make it all work without sleep. This becomes a horrible state where you would literally shoot heroin if it would let you shut your brain down for 8 hours.

For me, medication helped. A lot. Then came radical changes in my (self-employed) work schedule and forcing myself to walk every day if only for 15 minutes, no matter how busy -- but these things would not have happened without the medication. Telling someone who is frantically running on a panic-driven treadmill to stop and meditate/smell the roses? These are just words.

Thank you for the open and thoughtfully detailed story. Your description of the justifications we provide ourselves to avoid the truth is spot on. ;)

Myakka
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by Myakka »

Depression and anxiety were things I struggled with big time for many years. I never did meds, but I did try counseling with probably a dozen or so different people over the years -- which mostly did nothing for me or even made it worse.

For me the cure is the classical music of South India -- which is often known as Carnatic Music. For me, there is a magic in some of the songs that helps me feel and process my emotions -- even the very painful and tough ones. Sometimes it feels like the music feels my emotions for me.

Maybe I'm not even completely whole even now. I just know that if I am stressed because I locked myself out of my house, I go play the Sarasangi raga. If I am having a panic attack, I play Kalyani raga. And if I am enraged, I play Sahana. All of this works even though I still can barely tell one song from another ( :evil: that's something that as a long time music lover I refuse to let stand -- but I am willing to allow it the time it needs to develop).
But I am in a much better place now that I only need to play a song (maybe I need it three times in a row -- but that is still fast and easy) to feel better again. I feel like I have found the real life bards of the world -- it feels like magic to have my emotional pain played and sung away.

Michael_00005
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Re: Best books on depression?

Post by Michael_00005 »

I'd go whole food plant based for this issue, in fact that is the solution for at least 90% of health related issues, which includes mental and emotional. You can do a Google search and watch "Meet your Meat" or "Earthlings", this will explain the growing depression issue. At least for those that figure out the forgotten health secret, i.e. we are what we eat.

I was able to get rid a twenty year anxiety issue with a PBD (plant based diet), with an emphasis on magnesium rich foods, largely dark leafy greens. And don't expect an instant cure, most of us have been eating garbage for so long our bodies are totally out of wack. It's a gradual process but you will see steady improvement month to month. A person needs to aim for a minimum of a six week goal with the diet; this is where you will break away from the meat addiction. You probably would not believe all the health benefits if you were told about them... for someone who has been on the diet long term, it's like you wake up from this mass brain fog, and low grade all around poor health; then you will wonder why in the world didn't someone tell me about this earlier!

"How Not To Die" has a chapter on mental health, but Dr. Greger plans to do another book that focuses on mental/emotional. The real reason you don't hear about food as medicine is because no one makes money from it.

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