How much can diet combat depression/anxiety?

[TopHatFox]

Picked this up on the mixed advice thread: but is it really true that eating a certain diet will cure one of depression/anxiety? It seems that no matter what one eats, the way one thinks would be just as important if not more important than diet? And what is this special diet, just unprocessed food, a certain variety of unprocessed food, uncooked food, what?

Fascinating idea though.

[James_0011]

Diet is everything, as I said in the other thread look up Ray Peat. His articles aren't easy to read, but his advice is legit. The problem with your hypothesis is that is ignores the connection between what you eat and your thoughts, your mind is part of your body not a separate entity. Almost all neurotransmitters are produced in the gut.

Danny Roddy is also another person to lookup if you want Peat's ideas translated into a more practical form.

[daylen]

@James

I'm skeptical that what you eat has a significant, direct effect on your thoughts (unless, of course, you have a deficiency). Though, I will look into Ray Peat's work to see if he can convince me otherwise. How can you isolate the effects from various psychological biases? ..Or does he just use physiological evidence?

[wheatstate]

I am a big believer in Dr. Steven Illardi's method. He has a book called "The Depression Cure"

Here is a quick summary of his six steps:
• Eating a diet rich in omega-3 fatty acids, which are critical building blocks for brain structure and function.
• Engaging in enjoyable activities that keep us from dwelling on negative thoughts.
• Participating in exercise that stimulates important brain chemicals such as serotonin.
• Getting sufficient sunlight exposure to keep the body’s clock in sync.
• Getting social support to protect against the damaging effects of isolation.
• Getting enough sleep to allow the brain and body to recover.

The first partially answers your diet question. I don't think diet can work alone. Adding Omega3, and limiting sugar and alcohol can help.

His program
http://tlc.ku.edu/

His Book
https://www.amazon.com/Depression-Cure- ... 0738213888

Basic article with summary
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/jun/0 ... e-battlin/

[BRUTE]

unfortunately, the brain is complicated. certainly not all types of depression can be cured by choosing any one diet. some (most?) probably can't be cured by diet at all.

some can.

there is a specific type of depression that can be "cured" by switching to a ketogenic diet. this type of depression, like some types of epilepsy (not all), is caused by damaged glucose metabolism in the brain. i.e. the brain sometimes cannot get energy from blood glucose and the human experiences a seizure. if this happens in other regions of the brain, it can instead lead to lack of energy or depression. so if that's the root cause of a human's depression, a ketogenic diet can fix it.

even for epilepsy, this doesn't work for all types. there are also some types of (brain) cancer that apparently can be "cured" or controlled using ketosis, and some other types of brain damage.

similar mechanisms might work for other types of depression.

by the way, brute recommends Olaz drop the mindset of "processed food" and "uncooked food" etc. this type of pseudo-spiritual thinking about diet, like veganism, has zero foundation in science and is basically a religion. that isn't to say that certain types of processing or cooking cannot change the characteristics of food, but there's a large dose of natural fallacy in most of these cults.

[Toska2]

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Re: More on microbiome
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Post Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:35 pm

Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magaz ... -mood.html

‘‘You wouldn’t believe what we’re extracting out of poop,’’ he told me. ‘‘We found that the guys here in the gut make neurochemicals. We didn’t know that. Now, if they make this stuff here, does it have an influence there? Guess what? We make the same stuff. Maybe all this communication has an influence on our behavior.’’

and

Micro-organisms in our gut secrete a profound number of chemicals, and researchers like Lyte have found that among those chemicals are the same substances used by our neurons to communicate and regulate mood, like dopamine, serotonin and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). These, in turn, appear to play a function in intestinal disorders, which coincide with high levels of major depression and anxiety.


and

It seems plausible, if not yet proved, that we might one day use microbes to diagnose neurodevelopmental disorders, treat mental illnesses and perhaps even fix them in the brain.

Speaking of fecal transplants....

I asked him if what amounted to a personality transplant still sounded a bit far-fetched. He seemed no closer to unlocking exactly what brain functions could be traced to the same organ that produced feces. ‘‘If you transfer the microbiota from one animal to another, you can transfer the behavior,’’ Lyte said.



I couldn't find the ere yogurt link so here's this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3788166/

[IlliniDave]

Thinking is a physiological process and emotions are tied to hormones/chemicals. So it makes sense that what we ingest can affect our thoughts and emotions.

I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I've never really had depression or anxiety problems. I've felt a little depressed and have been anxious, but only in the everyday transitory sense.

That said, based on the anecdotal evidence of observing myself, When I stick to a near optimal diet for extended time, my overall sense of well being elevates and remains high. For me that means cutting out all carbohydrates except non-starchy vegetables (that means no rice, potatoes, corn, and limiting legumes). For you it might be a little different.

There's probably also a psychological aspect to it. A big part of what allows me to avoid excessive depressed moods and anxiety is acceptance, especially when it comes to the past. Just focus on the present and make the ongoing moments as good as you can, and don't compare them to what you can't make them. Another thing is learning not to be judgemental. Not everything has to be labeled good or bad. Most things just are. Even if they seem like obstacles, that doesn't make them bad. The obstacles are the journey.

[Sclass]

I find increasing my intake of dark chocolate and marzipan greatly improves my mood.

[ThisDinosaur]

I'm skeptical that what you eat has a significant, direct effect on your thoughts (unless, of course, you have a deficiency).

Seems like nonsense, right? Meet your enteric nervous system: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3845678/

Here is a quick summary of his six steps:
• Eating a diet rich in omega-3 fatty acids, which are critical building blocks for brain structure and function.
• Engaging in enjoyable activities that keep us from dwelling on negative thoughts.
• Participating in exercise that stimulates important brain chemicals such as serotonin.
• Getting sufficient sunlight exposure to keep the body’s clock in sync.
• Getting social support to protect against the damaging effects of isolation.
• Getting enough sleep to allow the brain and body to recover.

+1 to all of this. Depression is physiological, and their is lots of evidence that it is closely related to your sleep cycle.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17917561
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v22/n ... 5469a.html
In fact, the genetic basis of bipolar disorder (one of the most heritable psychiatric diseases) seems to stem entirely from clock gene mutations.

[Michael_00005]

Diet cured my anxiety, it was a 20 + yearlong issue. It started by accident, when experimenting with a dietary change, a green smoothie for breakfast everyday: lots of spinach, water, nuts, banana, dates, 1/2 apple and flax and other misc. Noticed the improvement from week one and decided to continue on, and it just kept getting better. Nature often works slowly, the process took well over a year. Looking back, the key was mostly a magnesium deficiency, and dark leafy greens are your best source (generally speaking, dark leafy greens (uncooked) are the most nutrient dense food), supplements do Not work. I never used to eat greens, now every day.

The body, mind, and emotions are all interlinked, the body is the foundation, and when this is brought into harmony, balance is eventually restored throughout. The next time you are around a sick person, notice how it affects their emotions, especially long term chronic illnesses. We can learn a lot from observation.

Another thing, Google search and watch “Meet you Meat”, most are ignorant our food and where it comes from. Animals are generally raised their entire life in darkness, knee deep in their own excrement, fear and depression is their life, “we are what we eat”. Then they are pumped full of hormones, antibiotics and a cow might consume 70,000 lbs of GMO foods and then all the pesticides spayed on this feed accumulate in the animal’s fat.

If you handle meat, you definitely need to be aware of superbugs… it’s in all factory produced meat. Do a Google search for “Superbugs and nutritionfacts.org”, this will definitely help you lose interest in eating out.

[chenda]

I saw a psychiatrist recently to deal with depression/anxiety issues after stopping anti-depressants in October last year. He believes there is a strong connection between diet and mental health. The results of some expensive testing said I was low in certain neurotransmitter metabolites, suggesting low brain levels of serotonin and several other chemicals. And a yeast gut infection. He recommended I go yeast free and stop eating wheat and barley, and recommended a vast array of supplements.

Too early to say if its working, although my symptoms have perhaps improved somewhat in the last few months. This may of course be due to a decline in the antidepressant withdrawal symptoms. The psychiatrist did say to me he feels like he 'risks his medical licence' when he prescribes dietary solutions, which did lead to me wonder if I was falling for quackery. Leaflets about homeopathy and acupuncture in the waiting room didn't help reassure me.

Dr. Steven Illardi's book is good and I would recommend it to try, but it didn't work for me.

@Michael_00005 What quantities of dark leafy greens and the rest did/do you consume ?