Hi everybody,
I'm a guy with banged up knees. I'm trying to decide if it is worthwhile for me to splurge for a high-end bike fitting or go with a more ordinary fitting or skip getting a fitting altogether. Here is some background:
-One of my knees is missing a whole lot of articular & meniscal cartilage.
-I'm experiencing knee pain while going for relatively short distances (at the beginning of the ride & after 10-12 miles).
-I ride with Speedplay Frog pedals. I'm turning 49.
-I haven't had a fitting since January 2012.
-I don't race or do group rides.
-If my knees were solid, I'd like to do social rides or even go touring.
-I ride a Surly Long Haul Trucker & use it for commuting & shopping.
It is more accurate to say I "used" the bike for those purposes. I'm pretty much not riding now because doctors have told me that knee pain=fresh damage. I have the option to get 1) a run of the mill fitting similar to the 2012 fitting from a well-regarded bike shop or 2) get a fitting from a physical therapist who works with pro bike racers, triathletes, etc. I've been to a lot of physical therapists & surgeons without much result at this point. (Most PTs seem to have expertise with runners but I have yet to find any with background with bikes.)
My last fitting was useful but I can't say it was ever quite right. I had joint issues even back then which likely made the fitter's job impossible. I went back to the fitter a few times without much success. I mean, there are only so many adjustments you can make to the seat position right?
At this point, I'm looking to avoid throwing more good money & time after bad. I would like to invest my money & time where there will be ROI so I eventually get to retire. Maybe I should just get platform pedals? I keep seeing posts on bike forums pointing to clipless pedals as causes of knee issues. Perhaps I should just get a recumbent to limit knee strain? What do you all recommend?
Bike Fitting Good Investment?
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
This is a tough call, bike riding is supposed to be a low impact sport, so the good news is I'd be very surprised if you were advised you would never be able to ride pain free again... Are you getting a new bike? Usually you can negotiate a fitting for free... but whether that's going to help with the knee pain is another matter.
Personally, I would spend the money on an appointment with a PT with the right experience rather than meeting with a run of the mill bike fitter. Most shop fitters won't know anything about injuries, they're usually employed for their ability to build bikes and the fitting service is often a way of extracting more from the customer, typically advising on upgrading from stock headsets etc, I don't mean to discredit any honest fitters who work with the pros, but most most shops don't work at that level!
There's nothing stopping you learning the basics yourself, the measurements and methods the pro teams use to size up their bikes and parts are readily available online for free. Counter-intuitively, there's no exact science behind a good fitting, and you may find that the fitting advice online is just a guide and making incremental adjustments over time helps you find the most comfortable position. If you have returned to a fitter numerous times, you may have exhausted their usefulness, at this point I'd be looking for a good PT.
If you have deep pockets, it may be worth exploring finding both a PT with specialist experience in riding, they may even be able to recommend a professional fitter, one who has experience working with pro teams and injury... of course, they will be hard to come by, expensive, or both! Ultimately I would be taking advice from someone knowledgeable before getting back into the saddle, you really shouldn't cheap out and trash your knees (anymore than they are), they are not so easy to replace.
Just be wary of those so called fitters who are just apprentice bike builders with no real understanding of human anatomy/physiology/injury!
Personally, I would spend the money on an appointment with a PT with the right experience rather than meeting with a run of the mill bike fitter. Most shop fitters won't know anything about injuries, they're usually employed for their ability to build bikes and the fitting service is often a way of extracting more from the customer, typically advising on upgrading from stock headsets etc, I don't mean to discredit any honest fitters who work with the pros, but most most shops don't work at that level!
There's nothing stopping you learning the basics yourself, the measurements and methods the pro teams use to size up their bikes and parts are readily available online for free. Counter-intuitively, there's no exact science behind a good fitting, and you may find that the fitting advice online is just a guide and making incremental adjustments over time helps you find the most comfortable position. If you have returned to a fitter numerous times, you may have exhausted their usefulness, at this point I'd be looking for a good PT.
If you have deep pockets, it may be worth exploring finding both a PT with specialist experience in riding, they may even be able to recommend a professional fitter, one who has experience working with pro teams and injury... of course, they will be hard to come by, expensive, or both! Ultimately I would be taking advice from someone knowledgeable before getting back into the saddle, you really shouldn't cheap out and trash your knees (anymore than they are), they are not so easy to replace.
Just be wary of those so called fitters who are just apprentice bike builders with no real understanding of human anatomy/physiology/injury!
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
Hi Vexed,
To clarify, one of the fitting options I have is with a physical therapist who works with racers. The other option is to see a fitter at a local bike shop who spent 2 years as a physical therapy assistant.
To clarify, one of the fitting options I have is with a physical therapist who works with racers. The other option is to see a fitter at a local bike shop who spent 2 years as a physical therapy assistant.
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
My experience with knees and bikes is that no amount of bike adjustments will really ameliorate a knee problem.
I'm slightly older than you. I used a simple brace (just a strap, really) to minimize pains I was having, but was able to get the problem mostly fixed through a chiropractor, who got it to hinge properly again. But I still keep the brace around for longer rides.
I'm slightly older than you. I used a simple brace (just a strap, really) to minimize pains I was having, but was able to get the problem mostly fixed through a chiropractor, who got it to hinge properly again. But I still keep the brace around for longer rides.
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
I'd definitely opt to see that PT then!
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
Three things.
1. Get your butt in position on the saddle. Hold yourself up at a wall or fence. Rotate the pedal to exactly 3 o'clock (front of bike). Drop a plumb line from the tip of your kneecap down. It should pass directly through the center of the pedal spindle. Too far forward or back can stress the knee.
2. Knees out pedaling is the most common cycling-form mistake. It can be hard on knees. Attach two zip ties to your top tube with about 2" tails so that they brush your knees as you pedal. Pay attention. Notice if your knees are going wider as you get tired. It may take some time to get used to having them in close to the top tube.
3. Higher cadence (RPMs) and lower resistance may also ease knee problems. Try avoiding hills if possible to see if they improve.
1. Get your butt in position on the saddle. Hold yourself up at a wall or fence. Rotate the pedal to exactly 3 o'clock (front of bike). Drop a plumb line from the tip of your kneecap down. It should pass directly through the center of the pedal spindle. Too far forward or back can stress the knee.
2. Knees out pedaling is the most common cycling-form mistake. It can be hard on knees. Attach two zip ties to your top tube with about 2" tails so that they brush your knees as you pedal. Pay attention. Notice if your knees are going wider as you get tired. It may take some time to get used to having them in close to the top tube.
3. Higher cadence (RPMs) and lower resistance may also ease knee problems. Try avoiding hills if possible to see if they improve.
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
Wow!!! Thanks, these are excellent tips. I really like the tip about using the zip ties. I actually have less knee pain when I stand up out of the seat on hills. My knees do better when they are bent only minimally.
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
This is the tip I utilize now while out on a long bicycle tour. First and only knee injury while riding was on the fifth day after four 60+ mile days of hills, during a large climb (I like to stay in high gears, high resistance). Now I pay more attention to any warning signs of oncoming knee pain and shift down to a lower resistance (the warning signs will then disappear) for the rest of the ride (rare, but has definitely saved my ass.. err knee).Ego wrote: 3. Higher cadence (RPMs) and lower resistance may also ease knee problems. Try avoiding hills if possible to see if they improve.
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jacob
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Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
There's also step 0 in Ego's list.
Make sure the saddle height is correct. That typically means that the foot is parallel to the ground when the pedal is all the way down +/- a few degrees depending on what's personally comfortable. A millimeter or two can make a big difference. This is the most common mistake I see; even a rookie bike mechanic will fix this though.
Make sure the saddle height is correct. That typically means that the foot is parallel to the ground when the pedal is all the way down +/- a few degrees depending on what's personally comfortable. A millimeter or two can make a big difference. This is the most common mistake I see; even a rookie bike mechanic will fix this though.
Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
Yeah, you're right, I should have put that first.
I do a lot of bike fits and bought a digital goniometer on ebay to get it perfect.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/iGaging-11-Elec ... 0837893293
If you are only going to use it a few times, you can make your own...
http://www.eie.org/eie-curriculum/resou ... goniometer
After you adjust the saddle front-to-back for step 1 above, you will need to recheck height. Keep going back and forth until you've got both in position.
I do a lot of bike fits and bought a digital goniometer on ebay to get it perfect.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/iGaging-11-Elec ... 0837893293
If you are only going to use it a few times, you can make your own...
http://www.eie.org/eie-curriculum/resou ... goniometer
After you adjust the saddle front-to-back for step 1 above, you will need to recheck height. Keep going back and forth until you've got both in position.
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ducknald_don
- Posts: 329
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Re: Bike Fitting Good Investment?
Not really related to knees but the thing that made the biggest difference to me when cycling was measuring my sit bones. For years I had struggled with long distances and I tried many different saddles but they made little difference. I had always assumed good saddles were narrow and didn't think beyond that. It turned out that I needed a much wider saddle than the norm. Long rides no longer cause me any discomfort.