Work vs. Exercise

[jacob]

I really don't like the term "exercise". This might stem from reading old (19th century) and foreign (particularly Russian) literature on the subject but to me "exercise" implies some kind of physical therapy to fix some kind of physical debility. It conveys the sentiment of "taking exercise" as a prescription for failing health and "shape".

I mainly blame first bodybuilding for putting form over function and developing the idea of isolation and machines with levers; second the fitness industry for promoting the pulling of such levers while "eating six small meals a day" as a way of health. Shoot, there's an entire industry of such equipment to be found in strip malls ... you sign up, pay a monthly fee, and subsequently find it really hard to get out of the contract. The recent (since 2005 or so) focus on functional fitness is a backreaction to this. Still, a lot of functional fitness seems to focus mainly on training hard to become good at training hard. I suppose that's fine for the few nutcases who enjoy the self-referential/masochistic mission of doing something hard for its own sake (I include myself among them), but that's not how it has to be!!

I'm pretty sure my grandfather never exercised a day in his life. However, he was a workman all his life and he once outworked my father (until my dad puked---very much in the spirit of Crossfit I guess) trying to impress him---none of them wanted to be the first to ask for a break. At 75 he was still responsible for mowing a giant lawn spending 6-7 hours walking behind a motor clipper all day. He'll [hopefully] turn 90 this year. In D&D stats, he has a constitution of 17 or 18. I have 25% of his genes Of course, these days it's hard to find that kind of work.

Now, people didn't use to "exercise". Rather, they _trained_ and they trained for sports. Most sports comprise a much more engaging and nuanced activity than "exercise". For starters, there's usually competition. There's also strategy. In some cases, there's tactics. Sports is quite simply rather much more multi-dimensional than "exercise". Point being, it tends to involve the brain much more often. In comparison, exercise seems to focus mainly on the body or at best the spinal chord. If you think Olympic lifts are mentally challenging, you haven't played hockey. I'm not saying that oly-lifts aren't complicated ... I'm saying that something like soccer, hockey, or rugby contains vastly more directed mental activity. There's a reason Gretzky was great and it wasn't because he skated 10% faster or shot 10% harder than everyone else.

Rant rant rant ...

My point being ... in terms of both present fun and old age, maybe the focus shouldn't be on "taking exercise" but in picking something that one can remain mentally engaged in which provides physical activity at the same time. Something like this: http://www.everydayhealth.com/senior-he ... -gold.aspx ... or high impact dancing, aikido, golf, ... or...

A few days ago, I took my parents over to my favourite neighbour. She's 76 and owns an xbox360 kinect. We all (age range 40-76) played Kinect Sports. It was the most fun I've had in quite a while. The game was [mostly] the great equalizer. Playing table tennis [on the xbox], one hits the table most of the time regardless of skill, whereas in reality, the difference in skill would be immediately apparent. I'm pretty sure I could clean out everybody present (DW + 3 senior citizens) out on a real table any day ... but in the computer game, I won as many games as I lost. Ditto boxing against DW and my Dad. Equalization didn't work so well for pure physicality. I set three "world records" in the game when it came to the long jump (12+ meters), the hurdle (I banged my head into the ceiling IRL), and the discus throw as these were mostly about how fast one can do high knee lifts and swing one's arm. In any case, we were all sweating (I was soaked) and laughing and likely meeting the minimum standards of the recommended prescription.

Rant rant ... but that'd be what I'd be looking for eventually. Not for winning at burpees...

OTOH, in terms of translating skills, I don't think push-mowing the lawn has ever been such a breeze as when I've done Insanity. Cross-training is certainly useful ... but I don't think it's the end-all of exercise^H^H^Htraining ... in particular not when it comes to the very important mental engagement. Put it another way. I attribute Insanity to setting WRs in the game. But I don't think such a program will be optimal into my senior years.

PS: Oh, that Russian comment. It's my understanding that Russian strength training referred to sessions as "lessons" rather than "exercise". I like that lens.

[FBeyer]

Your sentiment against exercise reminds me of Rippetoe.

This article is his take on exercise vs training.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-ripp ... 97039.html

[BRUTE]

sports are fun. but most have relatively limited and specialized modalities. thus brute thinks most sports are not great for all-round body maintenance or improvement. exceptions are combat sports, which seem relatively balanced, and diversified sports like decathlon. CrossFit is really unique in that they made a sport out of exercise.

mental exercise is fun, but brute thinks the term exercise in the physical realm works pretty well. training is to reach a goal. physical exercise is keeping the body functional or improving its functionality.

the russians have a very different lense, and thus a different training style. brute knows about this in weightlifting, where they are more about "learning to move well" vs. the more western exercise hard mentality. but this is specialized professional sports.

[jacob]

Well, there's obviously a range: http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

It ranges from the multidimensional to the one-dimensional. Where would you put "exercising" as it's commonly/popurlarly understood all the way from potato to x-fit?

[Toska2]

If everyone worked like Jacob's grandfather and my grandmother there wouldn't be a tree left standing or a plot untilled.

[BRUTE]

Well, there's obviously a range: http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

It ranges from the multidimensional to the one-dimensional. Where would you put "exercising" as it's commonly/popurlarly understood all the way from potato to x-fit?

yay boxing #1

"exercise" is an abstract term, of course. the point was that humans who "exercise" do it to maintain or improve their body in some way. humans who "train" are looking to accomplish something, like win a game or lift a certain amount of weight or go to the olympics. different goals. sports/training can overlap with general physical exercise to maintain or improve the body, but it does not always. and it's rarely the most efficient way to do it, because most sports focus way more on tactics and sport specific skills than general physical fitness.

[IlliniDave]

Regarding Crossfit and the "sport of fitness" (e.g., the Crossfit Games) I think there are parallels with things like decathalons. The notable differences are that the games are more physically demanding, that is, more physical capacity-based than skill based; and the events are generally not known in advance (announced days or even hours ahead of time) so competitors can't "practice" specifically for them. That's part of the philosophy of making an attempt to be prepared for the unknowable. To a degree it is also intended to take strategy out of the equation, although there is an amount of strategy within each event. What's missing is the direct athlete-on-athlete competition found in team sports, and certain individual sports (like boxing, fencing, tennis, etc.)

Another note: Crossfit does not claim to be a complete regimen. To completely follow the Crossfit prescription athletes should be participating in sports in addition to following the programming. In other words, the intent of Crossfit is to augment rather than replace sports. My experience is that most don't do that (play sports as well), but probably a good third of those I worked out with did, everything from ultra marathons to MMA to the standard HS sports/college athletics. You also get a fair number of law enforcement, firefighters, and active duty military participating--men and women who have the potential for encountering significant work-related physical demands. Graduates of Army Ranger School are badasses in a Crossfit Box.

[BRUTE]

yea, military personnel is very present in CF. brute actually left a box because the owner was former military and still shouted like a drill instructor.

might be that the challenges in the games are not usually skill-based, but brute remembers the outcry when they did sledge hammering a post into the ground, and one of the guys was a construction worker or something who did that for a living.. or when they did swimming, which is quite technical. but in general, probably a fair comparison.

[IlliniDave]

There's certainly skill involved in many of the competition events. What I meant was that the winners typically aren't the athletes who display the most refined skills, but the athletes that can maintain the best overall performance (essentially the capacity to do work) over the (now) four days of competition.

[7Wannabe5]

I think my primary objection to exercise for the sake of exercise is that it doesn't make sense in terms of perma-culture. If I could hook up an exercise bike to a water pump which would pump water up into a tank on top of my camper, and then later the water could flow back down over a water wheel that would be better.

I am always thinking about perma-culture, even when I am in a posh and unnatural environment. For instance, every time the Cowboy checks into a hotel with me using his points card, they try to give him a lovely bag with a free plastic bottle of drinking water in it. So, I could take that "free" water and put it in my backpack, and then dump it on one of my tomato plants the next time I was at my garden. "Exercise" isn't that bad, but it is kind of like that. The only reason I have to exercise is because I live more than half my life under conditions of greatly pampered affluence. All of us who are not doing the physical work necessary to produce the goods we eat and otherwise consume or wear out, and are instead allowing this work to be done by other people or machines powered by fossil fuels, are living lives of greatly pampered affluence. Doesn't matter whether you buy Cheetos wrapped in plastic at the Dollar Store and then don't burn off those calories in front of the television, or you buy Tofu Kale Soylent Powder in Recyclable Clever Origami Pouch at the Purple Cloud Market and then burn off those calories on the climbing web at the REI encampment weekend, the disconnect is the same.

OTOH, we live in conditions of such affluence, that it is possible with just a modicum of nerve and social skills, to subsist almost entirely off of resources other people are wasting. Therefore, to engage in work is almost wasteful. Why dig a bed to plant potatoes when you could knock on your neighbors door and eat whatever is about to go bad in his fridge for your dinner? Why gather wood and construct a rocket mass heater to keep yourself warm when there are lonely people running furnaces to heat 3200 square ft. houses they wander about in by themselves? Why make yourself nimble with scissors and needle when the Salvation Army has dumpster loads of discarded dresses for $1 each?

IOW, the primary problem with the practice of "exercise" is that it is proof that we have rendered ourselves redundant.


OTOH, my waist measure is down half an inch and my hip measure is up half an inch. So, my waist to hip ratio is back down to exactly .7 So, I will probably choose to continue taking a small, wickedly-efficient-and-oh-so-vile dose of Tabata Intervals as a dose for my affluenzic bloat for the time being.

[BRUTE]

IOW, the primary problem with the practice of "exercise" is that it is proof that we have rendered ourselves redundant.

exercise is the messenger and maybe a solution to the symptom, but the problem? otherwise brute agrees. but a disconnect between how humans acquire food and physical exertion isn't necessarily bad in brute's mind. there's no inherent value to "permanence" or "perma culture" in brute's mind.

[7Wannabe5]

BRUTE said: but a disconnect between how humans acquire food and physical exertion isn't necessarily bad in brute's mind.

I wouldn't use the word "bad" either, but how is this disconnect essentially any different than, for instance, the disconnect between transportation and physical exertion? Why is driving your car to the gym a fairly obvious flaw in the system, but buying kale that was transported from far away to an air-conditioned market, not so much? I am far, far, far, far away from being some sort of saint of green living myself. It's more like I am developing a growing fascination with how much we could know, as individuals, but don't know, concerning how we live in our ecosystem or our economy. Take,for instance, the mug I am drinking coffee from as I type this post. Where did it come from? How was it made? What was it made from? How did it come to be in my possession? If you start asking yourself questions like that as you strive towards even the most minimal lifestyle, the complexity will almost instantaneously knock you flat with wonder. Maybe I'm not explaining very well, but it's like you have to spend the morning trying to grow your own potatoes to really appreciate spending your evening at a performance of the symphony orchestra.

[BRUTE]

how is this disconnect essentially any different than, for instance, the disconnect between transportation and physical exertion?

it's not.

[7Wannabe5]

Front Squats: 15/15/15/15
Low Squat Bounce: 25/25/25/20
Boy Push-Ups: 7/6/6/6/5/5/5/5

I was trying to go low with very good form on the front squats. The low squat bounces, starting in ass-to-the-grass flat-footed squat pose and then bouncing up towards horizontal, were killer. The limiting factor was screaming muscle pain. I feel like the push-ups are really developing my back muscles quickly, but my triceps remain invisible. My form on the push-ups is pretty terrible.

I did the above Tabata intervals yesterday afternoon. Yesterday morning I loaded some plants into my new cargo bike trailer and rode to my garden, and then I shoveled and hauled about 30 loads of wood-chips. Yesterday evening I took a long walk by the river and engaged in other light aerobic activity with the Peacemaker, but my legs were like rubber. Thus, the essential conflict between Exercise, Work and Play.

Also, it becomes increasingly apparent that I have zero resistance to offers such as "How about we check out the new restaurant made out of an old pawn shop?" or a menu inclusive of items topped with creme fraiche. The Peacemaker, due to upping his cycling commute to over 30 miles, now has a BMI within the healthy limits, but he tends towards high blood pressure, so I probably should have eaten half of his food rather than ordering my own.

[BRUTE]

creme fraiche is great. what's the problem with that?

congrats on the training progress. muscle growth takes time. no hurry. 7wannabe5 should adopt a workout regimen that she could do for the rest of her life, every day. if the rubber legs are preventing her from enjoying other activites, she could dial it down. if it's merely a little inconvenience once in a while, fine.

[enigmaT120]

I thought rubber legs were normal.

[7Wannabe5]

@BRUTE: Well, it may be the case that some yummy delicious jalapeno biscuits with orange butter were consumed along with the braised pork chili topped with creme fraiche. Am I supposed to do strength training/Tabata intervals every day instead of every other day? I didn't get that.

@enigmaT120: The rubber legs were not normal because occurred during the walk. The other light aerobic activity was too light to induce normal effect of rubber legs due to restrictions due to contract ambiguity. See my post in Open Relationships thread.

[BRUTE]

@BRUTE: Well, it may be the case that some yummy delicious jalapeno biscuits with orange butter were consumed along with the braised pork chili topped with creme fraiche. Am I supposed to do strength training/Tabata intervals every day instead of every other day? I didn't get that.

great, now brute is fantasizing about braised pork chili with creme fraiche. brute has to admit 7wannabe5's lovers have amazing taste in food.

the frequency of doing strength/tabata depends a bit on the difficulty and the goals. most humans require at least 48 hours to recover from very heavy strength training (lifting heavy weights). metabolic conditioning can easily be done every day, as it recovers much faster. a typical strength plan would have 7wannabe5 training 3x a week, with at least 1 rest day between workouts. popular schedules are Monday, Wednesday, Friday. if 7wannabe feels really rested the next day, it's probably ok to train again if she wants to. tabata isn't really heavy strength work, but it can have a similar effect on humans who're not used to that work load. brute has always rested 1 day when his legs were really rubbery from tabata.

[7Wannabe5]

@BRUTE: Gotcha. I think I will stick with every other day until I stop seeing improvement. It seems to me that Tabata intervals could always stay at the level of rubbery-effect if you switch up the exercise like I did with the squats. In one of the videos I watched the instructor was doing jumping jacks at low squat level. I don't know who could do that without getting rubbery legs. I can almost do a pistol squat on my right leg. I can't do a rolling one-legged squat yet. I will master some sort of stupid human trick eventually.

[7Wannabe5]

Tabata intervals continue to yield very good results. I have decided to basically follow the workout protocol of Iskra Lawrence because I think her donut inclusive diet would fit in well with my preferred lifestyle, and her results are somewhat obtainable for me (give or take for quarter century of aging-sigh) because we are almost the same weight, height, size, and measurements. She can jump up 24 inches holding a 22 lb. kettle ball (soon so shall I!!) and looks like the opposite of somebody likely to fall down and break her hip anytime soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbmNzcJXprA