Work vs. Exercise

[jennypenny]

@7W5--I finally found a picture of the other push-up that's good for women (didn't know the name of it). I try to keep my body very straight when I do it to work my core -- I don't have my butt in the air like she does. I also have a folded towel under my knees. Squeeze everything in before each push-up to work the kegel area. It works triceps more than chest, so it shouldn't be the only push-up you do.

[7Wannabe5]

@jennypenny: Thanks for the push-ups variation recommendation. It is easier for me than boy version. My 19 year old niece, who is a professional dancer, was telling me something similar.

[7Wannabe5]

Well, as I predicted, the Cowboy suggested today that when he buys a new house in the suburbs, I might wish to fill the position last occupied by a 24 year old Sri Lankan girl, and I replied "Maybe you would like to come live in my camper with me and be my 24 year old Sri Lankan girl." HA!

So, the Tabata plan is totally working. Thanks guys

[BRUTE]

brute suggests that 7wannabe5 invite the cowboy to do a "girl workout, it'll only take 4 minutes". exposing unsuspecting humans to tabata squats is hilarious.

[7Wannabe5]

@BRUTE: The Cowboy isn't arrogant about his level of fitness, and he is obsessed with efficiency, so he thinks Tabata intervals are a very good idea. The Permaculture Manager is arrogant about his level of fitness, so he said "I already basically do that. I've known that since I played football." The Peacemaker isn't arrogant about his level of fitness, but he is a Baby Boomer, so I might have a hard time convincing him that Tabata intervals might be as good as biking 30 miles/day at a moderate speed. I do not have a dominant personality type, so I can't just make them all do handstand push-ups like Elle King in her "Ex's and Oh's" video.

[7Wannabe5]

Decided to stick with girl push-ups for now for comparison purposes.

Squats: 10/13/12/12/12/12/12/12

Girl Push-Ups: 12/10/10/10/8/8/8/8

Keeping at the 8 level on the girl push-ups was killer for me, but I felt much stronger when I first started. My limiting factor on the squats is muscle pain and tightness about 1/3 of the way up the outside of my thighs. The 12 reps weren't very aerobic, but the rubber band just wouldn't stretch any further right at that juncture. Both my thighs and my upper arms are looking tighter and meatier, but I know that is likely mostly due to fluid retention. My waist and hip measurements haven't measurably budged. Unlimited groceries within an 8 hour block each day might be too much for somebody as piggly-wiggly as myself. Further restriction of the window would not work with my preferences for social eating, so I guess I might have to throw in some caloric or food-type restrictions (sigh), if I wish to reduce volume beyond possible with increase in density.

[enigmaT120]

If you have 30 miles to go, those intervals won't work as well as a bike to get you there. I never bike just for exercise though, I make it part of my commute. Or ride up the logging roads for fun and exploration.

I think I need to start doing my Taekwondo forms more often, those are the most similar thing I do for exercise to the work I do in the woods when I can, like George said about dragging logs and splitting wood.

[7Wannabe5]

@enigmaT120: Yeah, I agree, efficiency isn't everything. I am adding the interval training to my usual less-efficient agricultural work and non-motorized transportation activities. I was also thinking that there is efficient, then there is productive/fulfilling/frugal, and then there is also fun to be considered. I decided that looking good in a bikini in my 50s is too much of a lame, passive goal, and sports don't interest me. So, since my legs seem to be my strength, I am going to train until I can do the dance routine in the Blackstreet "No Diggity" video. I can already do most of the moves, but only very, very sloppy and weak. Then I will make myself perform it in some sort of public setting. According to the authors of "Younger Next Year", you should attempt to motivate yourself towards greater levels of fitness with these sort of challenges that will render you thoroughly humiliated if you can't make the grade. There has to be some club around here that occasionally has old school hip-hop night. My deadline will be Spring Solstice 2017. I can do it!!!

[enigmaT120]

Have somebody video record it and share it with us!

[7Wannabe5]

@enigmaT120: Okay, but I have to warn you this was my inspiration for taking up hip-hop at 51.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLh6qqJRELA

I bet she can still haul some mulch too.

[tommytebco]

About losing fat:

I'm now 75 years old. I have been a runner for most of my life, starting in college. That helped me to stay relatively lean most of the time.
my target weight these days is 155. I now weigh 165. the mirror is unforgiving as to the location of this increase.

Fat is a survivor. The human body is designed to survive the next famine. Therefore, every time you eat more calories than you burn, you gain fat.
Period. Apparently, just dieting will cause losing muscle while the fat sits (Hangs??) on and smiles.

To loose fat, you have to burn it off. To get at the fat, you have to get it into the blood stream. That requires aerobic exercise. I call it "floating the fat" (ref. Covert Bailey, "The ultimate Fit or Fat")

When I was younger, I ran daily and it worked well. ( 50 miles a week was my groove. one long run.One day off) Unfortunately, as many others have noted, Wear and tear injuries built up to the point that back pain made running unfeasible. So, I began to walk daily. This proved to be not nearly as effective for fat control.

For the last ten years, I have hiked for a month each year on the Appalachian Trail. During that time, I loose/ burn most of my fat. I have to carry my food for a week at a time. That pretty well curtails snacking. I walk (carrying 25 to 30 pounds) for 8 or more hours a day. Typically, I lose 15 pounds. I do look like an emaciated Emu at the end. Hellacious legs and the rest scrawney.

On return to reality, the fat slowly accumulates. Last year, I tried swimming one hour three times a week to achieve aerobic conditions. It kind of helped. But when winter arrived in Florida I quit.

Anyway, good luck at loosing fat without "panting"

[BRUTE]

Therefore, every time you eat more calories than you burn, you gain fat.
Period. Apparently, just dieting will cause losing muscle while the fat sits (Hangs??) on and smiles.

no.

to clarify, tommytebco's information is 40 years out of date.

the body is more complex than calories eaten vs. calories burned.
it is possible to lose fat with diet only, without losing muscle (and even gain muscle). brute has done it.
aerobic exercise has repeatedly been shown to be not very conducive to fat loss, while other modalities are more conducive.

[7Wannabe5]

tommytebco said: Anyway, good luck at loosing fat without "panting"

We shall see. As I stated earlier, I am a philosophical agnostic in this realm.

My perception is that I am looking a bit more buff, although the tape measure still hasn't perceptibly budged. I was practicing my hip-hop moves this morning before breaking my fast. I can jump forward across the floor while squatting, but not really strong and high like the young dancers YET. Then I walked over to my camper-garden in the heat, and I felt a little bit like I was going to faint. I usually have low normal blood pressure, but occasionally it goes lower than normal. But, I just pumped my hands and arms really hard, drank some water, and I didn't faint, and I went ahead and shoveled and hauled around 20 carts full of sod and soil without breaking my fast. Then I ate some goat curry, cherries and zucchini bread with butter. I will probably take a long bike ride with the Peacemaker later too. Then tomorrow and the next day, the Permaculture Manager is making me haul a bunch more loads of soil and mulch, and dig another trench, plus I have to do my tabata intervals, and probably take a couple long walks with the Cowboy. It seems to me that eventually, even if I don't do aerobics, my level of activity is going to exceed my level of intake, and I am either going to pop some muscle, melt some fat, or, hopefully, both. My quantitative goal is waist-measure of 29.9999 inches or less, and my qualitative goal is non-laughable performance of rigorous hip-hop dance routine. I am fairly optimistic about meeting my deadline of Spring Equinox 2017, and I may even move it up to Winter Solstice 2016.

[tommytebco]

BRUTE sez:
"to clarify, tommytebco's information is 40 years out of date.

the body is more complex than calories eaten vs. calories burned.
it is possible to lose fat with diet only, without losing muscle (and even gain muscle). brute has done it.
aerobic exercise has repeatedly been shown to be not very conducive to fat loss, while other modalities are more conducive"

.
To each his own. Diets come and go. the latest is always the greatest. I'll be sticking with my tried and true which has treated me well.

[BRUTE]

some diets stay for a hundred years. keto was discovered in 1921. fasting has been a mainstay of many humans for thousands of years.

and tabata intervals definitely make brute pant.

[Dave]

it is possible to lose fat with diet only, without losing muscle (and even gain muscle).

This has been my experience, too.

My weight history has been interesting (to me). I'm 6'2.5". I was 195 up until I was around 21 or so. Skinny fat, as I did not have any meaningful amount of muscle. Then I decided to get into power lifting with the goal of joining the 1,000 pound club. I used Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Over the course of ~18 months, I did two cycles of "bulking" and got up to 255 lbs at my max weight, around the time I achieved my strength goal. I put on lot of muscle, and a lot of fat. I struggled for a couple of years to lose the fat. I did Atkins, which of course worked until I started eating carbs. Sorry, I'm not giving up pizza . Then one day I woke up, got on the scale, and realized that I was fat and had been so for a while. This needed to change.

I started researching how to lose weight. Most of the convincing research I read pointed me towards prioritizing diet>strength training>cardio. This was pleasing to me, as I somewhat enjoy strength training and do not enjoy cardio. So I set off on a journey of a few years with two main objectives: 1) clean up my diet in a major way, making a lot of positive changes over time and 2) do (a minimal) amount of strength training to keep up some muscle and strength.

It took about 2ish years, but I got down to about 175 lbs within the past year. I have hovered around that level since then. 20 lbs lighter than when I started my strength journey, with materially more muscle. It took a lot longer than planned, but mission accomplished.

Despite everyone telling me I needed to run/do cardio to lose weight, in my experience modifying my diet was far and away the single biggest driver to weight. This should not be a surprise. Most everyone knows this, really, but not everyone is able to mentally integrate the importance of diet in weight control. The strength training I did was surely helpful, but truthfully I was not consistent over this period and I did not work out very long or intensely. I did do a fair amount of walking during this time, which you could argue contributed as cardio, but in my experience it seems that cardio has a way of adjusting appetite such that any extra calories burned from cardio will be reclaimed via hunger.

Another variable thrown into the mix is that I have done some variation of the Warrior Diet or strict 23/1 IF for the last few years. This diet works for me, but I am not convinced it is magical or necessary for everyone.

YMMV. Just thought I would share as I have been experimenting with this for a few years now and had some degree of success. I will acknowledge that as a 27 year old it is relatively easier than it is for someone older.

[7Wannabe5]

@Dave: Thanks for sharing your story. It is rather difficult for me to determine how much of what works for a young man would also work for an aging woman. For some likely irrational reason, I am much more terrified of breaking my hip when I am 80 than having a heart attack when I am 65, so I am more concerned with muscle preservation/gain, and flexibility/balance than subcutaneous fat loss. So, I am going for something like the quite firm, curvy, well-padded mattress look rather than anything like the female version of the Tyler Durden look. I would be quite reasonably content if I could just trade 15 lbs of fat for 8 lbs of muscle, or something like that. My social life will not work well with a more extreme fasting regimen than 16/8, and my family and gardening life will not work well with me never baking a pie.

I was trying to figure out why I am trying to combat the current pressure or stress of men attempting to re-locate me to their suburban homes by getting in better shape. It seems sort of counter-productive. At first I was thinking because feeling stronger would help me maintain my boundaries. Then it occurred to me that the reason why I was feeling like getting in better shape would be helpful was that it will make me feel more confident that I will still be attractive in 2022 which is when I intend to have completed my permaculture/financial independence project. IOW, it will lower the opportunity cost of my current ventures. It's kind of hard to convince yourself that you will still be attractive when you are 57, but I didn't expect to still be attractive when I was 51, so ...Anyways, I highly doubt I will want to move into some affluent guy's suburban home when I am 57 either (my tentative vision has me in Brazil), but I am an ENTP, so I always have to do my best to keep all possible options open. I am also having a great deal of difficulty keeping myself from getting too much sun exposure. I currently have a quite distinct farmer's tan. So, I will probably have to throw something like $3000-$5000 into the pot/budget for aesthetic procedures also (sigh.)

[jennypenny]

Yeah, when I worry about being out-of-shape when I'm older, I think about the women I see who are hunched over or who can't kneel or genuflect at church anymore. I worry about not being able to weed my garden or change a flat tire or carry my groceries. I'm also focused on more important issues like cancer prevention, but strangely I'm not worried about that stuff. I run because I want to know I'm able to run, and not really for fitness. Immobility petrifies me.

[7Wannabe5]

@jennypenny: Hear you. I have always chosen to squat rather than kneel while weeding, but recently I consciously switched over to flat-footed squat rather than up on ball of foot squat, and have found that I can remain comfortable in that posture much longer, almost indefinitely. The only problem is that in garden setting, it literally puts my ass too close to the grass, or dirt, at times.

[tommytebco]

The thing about running is not the direct computation of calories burned during the exercise, but rather , the hormones <??> chemicals added to the blood stream that circulates fat, allowing it to be consumed during the rest of the day. only 20 or 30 minutes at mild aerobic levels is sufficient.Pulse around 120/ 130. The change in appearance is slow and gradual.

citing my personal distances was probably just low key bragging, not a minimum requirement. I apologize for that. Two miles 5 or 6 days a week would be sufficient.
The nitty gritty detail are available in the 40 year old source I referred to. I have no desire to engage in a debate about new/ old / obsolete. I'm just sharing my experience.

Of course reasonable diet is also important . I was an Atkins person for years. I still loosely follow that regime.