Effects of foods on insulin

Health, Fitness, Food, Insurance, Longevity, Diets,...
steveo73
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:52 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by steveo73 »

Papers of Indenture wrote:Hefty servings of Basmati white rice doesn't really have any negative impacts on me that I can notice. Large amounts of pasta or bread however cause me a lot of gut irritation and drowsiness.

I watched my dad eat white rice/vegetable stir fry's every night on his way to losing 40 pounds and improving his mental fitness markedly. Between that and marrying a Brazillian i've gotten on the rice train after being a strict paleo type of guy.

My father and I are Irish as Irish can be so i'm not sure why we would be pre-disposed to tolerating white rice but we do.
Honestly I hate this Paleo diet because it's unhealthy for you and because of the dribble that surrounds it. It's unhealthy because there is too much meat and they take out healthy food. It's also easy to lose weight and be healthy eating exactly what your dad ate to lose weight.

The predisposition thing is another piece of palava. It's just more nonsense that is sprouted and people fall for it. I accept some people may be gluten intolerant however that is rare.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by BRUTE »

steveo73 wrote:
simplex wrote:There was an interesting documentary on BBC some time ago. Here's the reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/ ... igh_sugar/

From this came that people on a high fat diet are maybe/probably more susceptible to diabetes than people on a high sugar diet.

Quite the reverse of what is popular now in the US it seems.
It's really interesting that the facts about meat and low carb diets seem to be completely different to what the low carb community state. It's actually meat that can cause insulin spikes.
did steveo look at the wikipedia link brute provided? meats cause way less insulin release than most carbs, including whole grains. only a few select carbs are down in the range that most meats are in.

so brute isn't sure who's being non-factual here.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by BRUTE »

Chad wrote:Protein can cause a small spike in insulin (always increases insulin, just not always a spike), but it's not guaranteed too. It causes the spike in insulin by being converted to glucose by the liver. If the body doesn't need more glucose it won't necessarily manufacture more just because protein is available.
is chad positive that gluconeogenesis is the only way protein can spike insulin? brute is honestly unsure. gluconeogenesis is definitely a thing, and many ketogenic dieters limit their protein intake because of it - overdoing protein can kick humans out of ketosis because it raises blood sugar so much.

but is there evidence there's absolutely no insulin spike from meats without gluconeogenesis? brute has experienced what feels suspiciously like insulin-crashing from eating tons of fat. (and brute means really a lot of fat, over 1000kcal in one sitting on WD).

brute should finally get an insulin meter.

steveo73
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:52 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by steveo73 »

BRUTE wrote:
steveo73 wrote:
simplex wrote:There was an interesting documentary on BBC some time ago. Here's the reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/ ... igh_sugar/

From this came that people on a high fat diet are maybe/probably more susceptible to diabetes than people on a high sugar diet.

Quite the reverse of what is popular now in the US it seems.
It's really interesting that the facts about meat and low carb diets seem to be completely different to what the low carb community state. It's actually meat that can cause insulin spikes.
did steveo look at the wikipedia link brute provided? meats cause way less insulin release than most carbs, including whole grains. only a few select carbs are down in the range that most meats are in.

so brute isn't sure who's being non-factual here.
Try this. It's interesting:- http://nutritionfacts.org/video/paleo-d ... -exercise/

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by BRUTE »

brute guesses there are conflicting studies now. oh science - y u no work when humans need you?

Chad
Posts: 3844
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by Chad »

BRUTE wrote:
Chad wrote:Protein can cause a small spike in insulin (always increases insulin, just not always a spike), but it's not guaranteed too. It causes the spike in insulin by being converted to glucose by the liver. If the body doesn't need more glucose it won't necessarily manufacture more just because protein is available.
is chad positive that gluconeogenesis is the only way protein can spike insulin? brute is honestly unsure. gluconeogenesis is definitely a thing, and many ketogenic dieters limit their protein intake because of it - overdoing protein can kick humans out of ketosis because it raises blood sugar so much.

but is there evidence there's absolutely no insulin spike from meats without gluconeogenesis? brute has experienced what feels suspiciously like insulin-crashing from eating tons of fat. (and brute means really a lot of fat, over 1000kcal in one sitting on WD).

brute should finally get an insulin meter.
I don't disagree. I did suggest that not every increase in insulin is a spike, which is probably where the minor misunderstanding occurs. My wording from my previous post:
Protein can cause a small spike in insulin (always increases insulin, just not always a spike),
The amount of food is also a determining factor for an insulin spike. The big difference is that most people experience larger spikes on carbs and don't need as many carbs to get the spike, when compared to protein/fat.

Of course, there are other variables impacting the carb spike, or any food spike, like fiber, exercise, genetics, etc.

The best thing is to test yourself. I can eat an 8 ounce steak, 6-8 ounces of cheese, all the vegetables I want (covered in butter), a little fruit and even a piece or two of multi-grain bread (fiber, fat, and protein seem to blunt any spike for me) and not see a spike in insulin (blood glucose goes up a little, but not a spike). It should be noted this is a cheat meal, which only happens once a week. If I did it every night I might decrease my sensitivity. Normally, I do a lower carb diet, less than 100g a day (usually around 80g all from vegetables and a little fruit), the rest of the time.

The next step is putting myself in ketosis. I'm probably fairly close right now (usually supposed to eat less than 25g carbs per day), but I won't know until I buy the proper stuff to test it. I don't know if ketosis will work for me or not, but I really like my current diet which is close. Also, it might just be too much of a pain in the ass to follow, but I'm interested to find out.

All of this kind of fascinates me, as it's getting easier to measure everything. I got a kit from 23andMe for Christmas and I'm looking forward to getting those results back. It may or may not be interesting now, but it might be going forward.

steveo73
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:52 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by steveo73 »

BRUTE wrote:brute guesses there are conflicting studies now. oh science - y u no work when humans need you?
Yes and no. I think the low carb community uses very selective data and science. I don't view myself as having any food philosophical bend and I just want to know what is healthy in order to maximise my health while I am alive. I see absolute stupidity when it comes to the low carb community.

There is a discussion between various doctors on youtube that were/are big names in nutritional science. Atkins was there and it was very interesting. Atkins admitted that there were no studies backing up his philosophy and he got absolutely hammered. He honestly stated it's because there is no profit in low carb diets. Of course there is a lot less money in recommending plant based foods which is where the basic nutritional science is at today (and has been for years).

The problem is that no matter how strong the evidence is against low carb/high fat/high meat diets people will simply not look at it and come up with all sorts of pseudoscience to justify the way they want to eat.

On the flip side you don't have to be a vegan to be healthy and I think most nutritional scientists state this now. I don't think anyone who has any idea at all says to limit carbs though.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by BRUTE »

Chad wrote:The next step is putting myself in ketosis. I'm probably fairly close right now (usually supposed to eat less than 25g carbs per day), but I won't know until I buy the proper stuff to test it. I don't know if ketosis will work for me or not, but I really like my current diet which is close. Also, it might just be too much of a pain in the ass to follow, but I'm interested to find out.
brute finds it not that bad. basically he just had to cut out rice, and brute was eating a lot of rice before (with WD).

chad can still eat almost all vegetables (just not the starchy ones like potatoes). some people eat berries, but brute thinks berries are a waste of time, more a dessert than real food, so he's too lazy to buy them.

brute is also very excited about the next few years in nutritional sciences. there are many interesting things being studied with regards to ketosis, and many of the prevalent myths about ketosis have been disproven in recent studies. for example, it's now been shown that in elite endurance athletes (who used to "carb load" all the time), they can actually perform just as well on a ketogenic diet - one just needs to give them a few weeks to adapt to ketosis. previously, it was thought that humans needed carbs to perform athletic feats. turns out, the studies were just badly designed, because they only lasted a few days.

the effects of ketosis on other conditions like some types of cancer, diabetes, blood pressure, depression, sleep disorders, and more, is also interesting.

brute really believes that many humans are designed by evolution to run on ketone bodies for large parts of their lives - be it through intermittent fasting throughout the day (Warrior Diet), eating mostly animal products in the winter when no plants would grow, or just generally being a hunting-focused culture.

quite clearly many people run fine on carbs. and others tolerate them very well, or at least some types of carbs. but seeing how many people react when they switch to keto, it's a total "a-ha" moment where it seems like a lightbulb is going off - "oh, this is how the body's supposed to work! no more hunger, no more cravings, no more acid reflux, no more insomnia, no more depression".

Chad
Posts: 3844
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by Chad »

Yeah, long distance runners, especially those towards the higher mileages, seem to do very well on ketones. Though, shorter high intensity workouts or sports seem to do better with carbs as the primary energy source. Of course, any normal athlete could get away with either, as their main energy source.

The cancer and disease research linked to ketosis is interesting. Hard to tell right now if the resistance to this idea is the normal, "because we have always done it this way", or if it will turn out to be just another promising idea that doesn't quite deliver.

Ferriss has an interesting podcast guest who researches ketosis and related items.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/ ... dagostino/

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by BRUTE »

yes, brute loves d'agostino. very cool research. one of the people that influenced brute to switch his diet from what was basically rice&beans every day.

the cancer research is super preliminary. the idea is basically that cancer cells feed on glucose, and a ketogenic diet removes their fuel. the problem is this isn't true for all cancers, and some cancers can switch their fuel mode like the human body can, and so grow even in ketosis. brute seems to recall that for some reason, brain cancers are more vulnerable to ketosis. maybe a blood-brain-barrier thing?

another interesting guy is dr peter attia.

what brute didn't realize before listening to d'agostino is that diet isn't "just" a weight loss/heart disease influencer. diet influences the very way every cell in the human body fuels itself, and therefore, functions. the implications are immense (like brute's female parental unit).

that's why things like cancer, depression, sleep problems, aren't "off limits" for diet.

zarathustra
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: VEGAS, BABY

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by zarathustra »

I am also a big fan of Peter Attia and D'agostino but especially Attia. The experiments he has done on himself are really interesting!

When it comes to ketogenic diets working so well with fighting brain cancers I wonder if it has something to do with how well the brain functions and even prefers running on ketones and if it is connected with why a ketogenic diet is so helpful with other neurological diseases like alzheimer's, seizure disorders, depression and bi-polar issues.

I admit when I am doing very low carb my brain works way better for way longer and I do feel more positive. I am still struggling to find the right nutrition for my sport, though. For powerlifting, it is helpful to have enough muscle glycogen for explosive, powerful lifts so I am playing with a little carb backloading after workouts right now.

freedomseeker
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by freedomseeker »

I've experimented with a few different diet types and find that general inflammation is directly relevant to diet (obvious). Given that this is such a big factor in just about all diseases & reasons for death, not to mention cognitive clarity, has anyone used this as one of their primary markers for diet choice?

Whether you're trying to bring your omega 3-6 ratio back into reasonable line, or found out that you react with slight swelling every time you eat a certain food, or just noticing the difference after a big meal or high sugar meal, this seems to have a large effect on how I feel. There are a tonne of factors that tend to promote inflammation, but since it seems to be one of the biggest tell tale markers for personal long term health and disease risk, it appears to be worth considering.

I'm currently trying to learn to eat less (less feasting, not sweating as much about 'losing muscle' etc) and trying to get used to eating more filler carbs (less fat and protein (gasp. hard to hear myself say that- old habits and what not)) without feeling shitty or increasing inflammation.

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by Dragline »

freedomseeker wrote:I've experimented with a few different diet types and find that general inflammation is directly relevant to diet (obvious). Given that this is such a big factor in just about all diseases & reasons for death, not to mention cognitive clarity, has anyone used this as one of their primary markers for diet choice?
Yes, I try to focus on this due to a hereditary propensity for gout. I observe some successes with most common strategies -- reducing wheat and dairy consumption tends to reduce inflammation, particularly in the sinuses. Certain berries and cherries help with more joint-related stuff, as does eating a more "alkaline" diet rich in fibrous vegetables and lemons/limes. Avoiding processed food, protein overload and too much alcohol works, too.

But recently switching to a daily fasting/eating window type diet seems to have had the largest single impact.

I've also tried various supplements, but none of them seem to do that much as far as I can tell.

freedomseeker
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: Effects of foods on insulin

Post by freedomseeker »

ditto on the food changes making much more noticeable impact over supplements (well short of ibuprofen or something)

interesting to hear about the eating window being the biggest factor for that. I had experimented with it for a while, but for different purposes so I wasn't looking for that. Right now I'm having two to three meals throughout the day as needed(around exercising/when hungry) but maybe I'll have to try that again.

Post Reply