Hi everybody,
Has anyone tried prolotherapy for osteoarthritis or rheumatoid arthritis? Is there any research to support its effectiveness for those conditions?
Thanks!
Prolotherapy?
Re: Prolotherapy?
the research shows that it's ineffective and a borderline scam. Well the latter is a bit harsh, let me say that some physicians claim it can do things that it really can't and so I guess they are the scammers.
Introducing anything into a joint, even saline, has some efficacy. Steroid and lidocaine are the traditional method of relieving inflammation in the joint. But, if the joint is bad enough that it's degenerating fast then injecting anything in there may even expedite the rate of degeneration.
What's the condition you are dealing with if I may ask?
Introducing anything into a joint, even saline, has some efficacy. Steroid and lidocaine are the traditional method of relieving inflammation in the joint. But, if the joint is bad enough that it's degenerating fast then injecting anything in there may even expedite the rate of degeneration.
What's the condition you are dealing with if I may ask?
Re: Prolotherapy?
I would try something much less invasive first.
Changing diet to less inflammatory foods can help. Having recently gone to a warrior-style diet, I can say for certain that it has reduced inflammation in my joints.
I have also gone to a chiropractor, who did wonders with a bothersome knee problem I had last year.
Some people also benefit from taking SAM-e. See http://www.arthritis.org/living-with-ar ... /sam-e.php
Changing diet to less inflammatory foods can help. Having recently gone to a warrior-style diet, I can say for certain that it has reduced inflammation in my joints.
I have also gone to a chiropractor, who did wonders with a bothersome knee problem I had last year.
Some people also benefit from taking SAM-e. See http://www.arthritis.org/living-with-ar ... /sam-e.php
Re: Prolotherapy?
In my (non medical) oponion exercise and massage seem among the safest and most effective treatments for arthritis. Worth exploring before you try anything more invasive.
Re: Prolotherapy?
Hi everybody,
Thanks for all of your thoughts. Here is a bit more background. I am a 48 year old male with an autoimmune disorder & significant food allergies/sensitivities. Both conditions were undiagnosed by numerous doctors until a couple years ago.
One manifestation of the autoimmune issue is arthritis of the knees. I went to see my orthopedist recently & will be getting my knee "cleaned up" next month. Ugh. The surgeon discussed partial knee replacement as an option. I have been on a hardcore Paleo AutoImmune diet for just under two years at this point. The dietary change has mostly stalled the progress of the autoimmune problem. However, aging continues regardless, my life is a high stress one, & a lot of damage was already done. So the arthritis continues to eat my knee cartilage. For a variety of reasons, I don't want to go the knee replacement route now or later. So, I am seeking options. If prolotherapy works, I would want to save my pennies for a self-pay treatment as no insurer seems to cover the treatment.
Thanks for all of your thoughts. Here is a bit more background. I am a 48 year old male with an autoimmune disorder & significant food allergies/sensitivities. Both conditions were undiagnosed by numerous doctors until a couple years ago.
One manifestation of the autoimmune issue is arthritis of the knees. I went to see my orthopedist recently & will be getting my knee "cleaned up" next month. Ugh. The surgeon discussed partial knee replacement as an option. I have been on a hardcore Paleo AutoImmune diet for just under two years at this point. The dietary change has mostly stalled the progress of the autoimmune problem. However, aging continues regardless, my life is a high stress one, & a lot of damage was already done. So the arthritis continues to eat my knee cartilage. For a variety of reasons, I don't want to go the knee replacement route now or later. So, I am seeking options. If prolotherapy works, I would want to save my pennies for a self-pay treatment as no insurer seems to cover the treatment.
Re: Prolotherapy?
you definitely should get some opinions from other orthopedic surgeons. I would go as far as to say you probably shouldn't be talking to a surgeon. They are surgeons and that's what most of them know. If you have autoimmune degenerative arthritis you should be talking to a rheumatologist. If it's autoimmune and progressive I'm assuming you area already on immunomodulating meds.
Diet is critical, agree with Dragline and it sounds like you are pursuing that already. Getting your knees "cleaned" out ... I hate to generalize but that's probably one of the least favorable options in medicine.
One last thing I'll throw out... if a surgeon is paid per surgery then they will do surgeries. Make sure the doc you see isn't profiting from each individual thing they do, rather that they are getting a set salary. On one hand it sucks for a doc to get a salary because you could be working you ASS OFF and still get the same amount while your dumbass colleague is working like a snail and doing a shit job at it but they are getting the same salary. On the other hand like Crazylemon said in another post, if you are getting a set salary there is very little conflict of interest.
best of luck. I don't mean to confuse you or question what you're doing, just throwing out things to think about.
Diet is critical, agree with Dragline and it sounds like you are pursuing that already. Getting your knees "cleaned" out ... I hate to generalize but that's probably one of the least favorable options in medicine.
One last thing I'll throw out... if a surgeon is paid per surgery then they will do surgeries. Make sure the doc you see isn't profiting from each individual thing they do, rather that they are getting a set salary. On one hand it sucks for a doc to get a salary because you could be working you ASS OFF and still get the same amount while your dumbass colleague is working like a snail and doing a shit job at it but they are getting the same salary. On the other hand like Crazylemon said in another post, if you are getting a set salary there is very little conflict of interest.
best of luck. I don't mean to confuse you or question what you're doing, just throwing out things to think about.
Re: Prolotherapy?
Have you fiddled with the acid/alkaline nature of the foods you eat? My problem is hereditary gout, which is different from yours, but is affected by this, especially if I eat too much protein and not enough greens.brookline wrote:Hi everybody,
One manifestation of the autoimmune issue is arthritis of the knees. I went to see my orthopedist recently & will be getting my knee "cleaned up" next month. Ugh. The surgeon discussed partial knee replacement as an option. I have been on a hardcore Paleo AutoImmune diet for just under two years at this point. The dietary change has mostly stalled the progress of the autoimmune problem. However, aging continues regardless, my life is a high stress one, & a lot of damage was already done. So the arthritis continues to eat my knee cartilage. For a variety of reasons, I don't want to go the knee replacement route now or later. So, I am seeking options. If prolotherapy works, I would want to save my pennies for a self-pay treatment as no insurer seems to cover the treatment.
One thing that has helped me is combining fresh squeezed lemon or lime juice, which although acidic creates an alkaline reaction in your body, with some kind of green powder and consuming it most every. You might give it a go -- it probably won't do much, but it certainly won't hurt you.
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bottlerocks
- Posts: 85
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Re: Prolotherapy?
If you have osteoarthritis in your knees, there isn't much to be done aside from joint replacement unless you're currently being bothered by bone spurs.
I had major knee surgery when I was a teenager and now have no medial meniscus left on my left knee. As a result I have moderate-severe arthritis and no bone spacing in that compartment when my leg is extended + increased bone density and curvature. I've had "clean up" arthroscopes, hyaluronic injections, cortisone injections, traction, you name it. Anything that provided relief was temporary and it's worse year over year. It's just a countdown to replacement at this point...I'm not even 30 yet so the prognosis of having a lifetime long replacement is poor. I've been researching this problem and getting opinions for more than 6 years.
I will say that the best thing I ever did for pain management was lose weight (30-40 lbs). Now I can at least play tennis (with a limp) for a couple hours before my knee is jammed out. Also, uni-compartmental replacement is much better than full replacement and on the medial side people are often able to run and sustain higher impact activities after surgery.
As for surgeon vs. non-surgeon, most orthopedic specialists are also surgeons and therefor they have the best insights into your condition. My current doctor tells me to pull the trigger when the pain is too much, but he also encourages me to hold out as long as possible.
I had major knee surgery when I was a teenager and now have no medial meniscus left on my left knee. As a result I have moderate-severe arthritis and no bone spacing in that compartment when my leg is extended + increased bone density and curvature. I've had "clean up" arthroscopes, hyaluronic injections, cortisone injections, traction, you name it. Anything that provided relief was temporary and it's worse year over year. It's just a countdown to replacement at this point...I'm not even 30 yet so the prognosis of having a lifetime long replacement is poor. I've been researching this problem and getting opinions for more than 6 years.
I will say that the best thing I ever did for pain management was lose weight (30-40 lbs). Now I can at least play tennis (with a limp) for a couple hours before my knee is jammed out. Also, uni-compartmental replacement is much better than full replacement and on the medial side people are often able to run and sustain higher impact activities after surgery.
As for surgeon vs. non-surgeon, most orthopedic specialists are also surgeons and therefor they have the best insights into your condition. My current doctor tells me to pull the trigger when the pain is too much, but he also encourages me to hold out as long as possible.
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Riggerjack
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
Re: Prolotherapy?
I'm 45, and did the meniscus " clean up" 4 weeks ago. One large tear, that barely showed on the MRI, a small tear, and a frayed old tear. It hurt more the 1st week, about the same the 2nd and 3rd, and almost not at all now.
I was toughing it out, for 11 months. Physical therapy, and resting,it just wouldn't heal up on it's own. I'm very happy I had it done, now I'm just trying to adjust to walking without a limp.
I talked to a dozen or so people who had the same surgery, (office full of old folks...) none regreted it.
I hesitate to bring it up here, but if you are looking for long term anti-inflammatory pain management, you may want to look into kratom.
I was toughing it out, for 11 months. Physical therapy, and resting,it just wouldn't heal up on it's own. I'm very happy I had it done, now I'm just trying to adjust to walking without a limp.
I talked to a dozen or so people who had the same surgery, (office full of old folks...) none regreted it.
I hesitate to bring it up here, but if you are looking for long term anti-inflammatory pain management, you may want to look into kratom.