Jealousy Woes

[fiby41]

How do you recognise jealousy when you see it and deal with it?

How can we distinguish between the jealousy in personal relationships and other types of jealousy?

I find useful the idea of not treating jealousy as a disease to be cured but as a symptom of something else that is underlying it. Using it to increase our self knowledge/awareness and understand ourselves better.

Can differentiate between jealousy and envy, or defining them help with better handling those?

Lastly, what are your experiences with these emotions that might help other members?

[Tyler9000]

Can differentiate between jealousy and envy, or defining them help with better handling those?

This immediately came to mind:

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/apoY335_700b.jpg

[bradley]

Haha, they can both be used as synonyms, but if we want to be strict, yes, it's like Homer says.

I can't remember the last time I've felt jealous, to be honest. That could be because I'm usually very happy to share anything I know/have, and there's nothing I have that makes me feel protective in that sense. I don't even get jealous of DH, really (which he hates haha).

Envy, on the other hand, has come around a few times. Usually it's when someone does something I wish I could also be doing. For instance one of our friends just posted how she traveled to one dozen places this year, and I felt a pang of envy. Not because I wanted to go to those places, but because it gave me the impression that she could do and go as she pleases (which isn't factually true, but emotions don't listen to facts). I wished that I could do that. I don't think that feeling is unhealthy, especially since it's less in the emotion and more in how we act on it. As a matter of fact, if anything it motivated me to keep striving for my own FI goals.

Envy can be motivating, but it certainly can be debilitating, too. I just finished the first draft of a novel, and I would have never done it if I had envied the writing skills or accomplishments of the National Book Award finalists. Sure, I felt that same pang, that gee, I wish I could do that, but I didn't let it linger. I made it motivate me to write, write, write and get better in my own way.

I guess jealousy and envy are dangerous when you're unsure of yourself and you're not sure where to go next. But it's best used, like the OP said, to increase your self awareness.

[Dragline]

I recognize these types of feelings -- to want what we see other people have -- to be manifestations of the subconscious mammalian brain. We share them with monkeys and dogs. Except that we are capable of abstracting them into also wanting what others desire and wanting to take the place of another. This served an important evolutionary purpose (monkey see, monkey do), but does not serve a modern one very well. It is, however, one of the primary drivers of consumerism.

Then I ask myself if I really want to behave like an animal or if I am above that.

[7Wannabe5]

I think jealousy also has something to do with resentment, expectations and covert contracts (with others or the universe.) Expectations are to covert contracts as standards are to overt contracts. So, one way to avoid experiencing a good deal of jealousy or other unpleasant related emotions, would be to follow the practice in alignment with the expression "I don't have expectation. I have standards." and always and everywhere attempt to make, abide by and enforce only overt social contracts. So, for instance, an overt contract/standard might be "If my boyfriend cheats on me then I will kick him to the curb and he knows that." or even "If my boyfriend flirts with another waitress while out to dinner with me then I will kick him to the curb and he knows that." OTOH, you can choose to make only contracts that match your rational expectations and thereby lower both your need for enforcement and likelihood of jealousy. That's one of the reason why I have chosen to practice polyamory. My expectation that my sexual partners would like to and very well may be having sex, pleasant conversation over dinner, co-operation on a project, or recreational interaction with other partners matches my standard of enforcement and my own behavior, so I don't feel jealous. It would be like feeling jealous or angry that somebody else is currently using one of the several zip-cars within walking distance of me.

[GandK]

...one way to avoid experiencing a good deal of jealousy or other unpleasant related emotions, would be to follow the practice in alignment with the expression "I don't have expectation. I have standards."

I have never been a jealous/envious person, but I definitely want to do this more. Like a lot of people who over-empathize, I tend to get walked all over, and I believe this attitude would help.

[Riggerjack]

Back when I was young, I was with a girl who liked playing games. She felt best when surrounded by drama and angst. I got in a real twist over her. After it was over, and I could think straight again a came to a few conclusions.

1. If I'm jealous without reason, I need to stop being so insecure, and just get over it.

2. If I'm jealous with reason, I'm in the wrong relationship, and there is only one fix for that.

Each bout with jealousy since has been a short battle with insecurity. Each attempt to make me jealous was met with a simple end of the relationship. This has worked well for me, but I have no tolerance for drama.

Envy, on the other hand, is just wanting what someone else has. Since I can usually get anything someone else has, if I'm willing to make the sacrifice. Then figuring out what I'd have to sacrifice to get it usually fixes the envy.

The more decisions I get right, the better my life gets. As I get older, I have regrets, but the fewer people I'd like to change places with. The slow answer is the more you live life the way you want, the less there is to be envious of.

Of course none of that would have helped me when I was young, and getting in a twist over some girl. All I can say is: it gets better.

[7Wannabe5]

GandK said: I have never been a jealous/envious person, but I definitely want to do this more. Like a lot of people who over-empathize, I tend to get walked all over, and I believe this attitude would help.

Yeah, I err on the side of easy-going, soft-touch myself. However, the thing to realize is that other people often err in the other direction. They throw up their rigid boundaries far in front of their true self-interest, rather than the opposite. If self-interest is defined as something less fleeting than feelings-in-the-moment than the best boundaries are those we self-aware choose to construct right at the line of self-interest. Unfortunately, this is a never ending process if you are striving towards personal growth.

Riggerjack said: The more decisions I get right, the better my life gets. As I get older, I have regrets, but the fewer people I'd like to change places with. The slow answer is the more you live life the way you want, the less there is to be envious of.

Absolutely agree. OTOH, I have myself been surprised, and seen other people surprised, by jealousy popping up again in their lives in unexpected places for unexpected reasons. For instance, at mid-life I was blindsided a couple times by intense feelings of jealousy towards an older ex with whom the older man I was romantically/sexually involved was still friendship-love-and-economically-involved. It was extremely hard for me to sort out these feelings because it was like I was jealous but the opposite of envious, because who would ever want to be in the shoes of a less-attractive woman who was still in love with a man who had sexually/romantically rejected her? I had learned to deal with simple jealousy in situations such as "he is ice-skating with that girl with the perfectly-feathered hair" way back when I was a teenager in much the manner you described. Anyways, I came to the conclusion that my jealousy over the "older women" was really a form of resentment towards behavior I saw as being in alignment with "arrogant entitlement to cake-eating" and since arrogance is a form of stupidity, the solution was readily apparent.

[Sclass]

All true, but I've seen some serious jealousy over good health in people over 75 I know.

They'll ask, did you see Nate? How's he doin? I'll say, "he's good, I met him after he finished up eighteen holes at the muni." The asker will go silent because he knows he himself has severe cataracts and uses a walker. It's jealousy over youthfulness of peers.

The same guy gets a subtle smile when he says, "how is Tom's dad doing?" I say, "aww man, Tom said he's got stage 4 cancer. Tom is really torn up about it." I can see the old man in the walker is actually happy another old guy has cancer.

Another one I deal with is my mom's college roommate. She is actually visibly happy when she hears my mom is confined to her home with dementia. I mean she's scared of getting dementia herself and is happy she herself isn't sick with it, but her visible elation about my mom's state goes beyond personal gratitude for good health. She's happy there's somebody else worse off than her. I guess this isn't jealousy but it seems related.

Just sayin' getting old brings out jealousy sometimes.

hang on...when I think about it, the two people I'm talking about were some of the most jealous folks I knew when they were younger. Oh yeah green with envy types. Maybe they just never grew up and the objects of their desires changed.

[Dragline]

Schadenfreude!

Some people are more governed by their animal instincts. They tend to be more miserable than others over time. And they stop trying to hide it when they get older.

[Sclass]

Schadenfreude!

Some people are more governed by their animal instincts. They tend to be more miserable than others over time. And they stop trying to hide it when they get older.

Yup, these individuals were the impulsive emotional ones when younger. The ones who liked "drama" as RJ put it.

Another one oddly was my bible thumping grandma. She would ask me how her cousin was doing when I'd come back from the cousin's bedside. They were both 95. I'd say, "oh, she cannot move and she just answers me yes or no with blinks."

My sweet grandma would beam! I couldn't believe it. "Oh Praise God for my good health" she'd say. It would leave me a little disconcerted but I kind of understood.