What are the healthy eggs, meats, cheeses, cow milks, fish, and other animal products?

[TopHatFox]

I don't have too much knowledge on this considering I don't usually eat animal products, but occasionally I find free animal products to eat, and I'd like to know how to determine which are most healthful and which I should avoid. (Incidentally, I learned how to tell a hard boiled egg from a raw one today by rolling it around! I was quite amused.)

It seems that the most healthful meat, dairy, and other animal products are the ones that tend to have no unnecessary ingredients, usually the ones that don't come in a box with a long ingredients list. For example, "lunch" meats and cheese are out because they have dextrose, preservatives, "flavorings", and other crap. Full fat animal items don't seem to be detrimental for humans, unless if you don't really need the calories, then opt for lean meats and removed-fat yogurts and cow milk. Fish seems to be good as long as it comes from a place without too much pollution or mercury. Eggs are best when from a non-factory farmed environment. Also, any actual meat, butter, etc. is almost always better than the fake imitation version one can find at a store (i.e. portabella burger > veggie burger from store < lean beef/chicken/meat burger).

That's good enough for now. Do you eat animal products? Which do you think are the most healthful variety of dairy, meat, etc. and why? As a bonus question, what animal products do you usually get at the grocery store and how do you consider in the cost of such items? (animal products tend to be $$)

[BRUTE]

beef/butter/cream/milk is best from grass fed cows. this is often advertised.
chickens/eggs/pork would be best from animals eating the equivalent of grass fed (the natural diet of these animals isn't grass), but that is very rare and not usually available.

saturated animal fat is actually very healthy and the best source of energy for humans, if it's from grass fed, healthy animals. brute loves grass fed butter and eats it every day.

brute sticks to the cheaper animal products, and doesn't overdo it. animal protein is nice, but brute is not a bodybuilder. dietary protein is very overrated, while most people skimp on the healthy saturated fats.

eggs are dirt cheap everywhere. chicken is dirt cheap in most places. pork is usually a good price, beef can be pricey. butter is always dirt cheap, grass fed butter a bit pricier.

brute eats ~200g of animal flesh a day. usually chicken or fatty pork. supplemented with grass fed butter. this seem easily enough and is very cheap (less than 50c for the chicken, about $1 for pork belly).

[Chad]

Grass fed beef has a better fat profile than grain fed. This includes butter. This is expensive (grass fed butter less so).

Eggs are fine. Dietary cholesterol does not necessarily mean your blood cholesterol will go up.

Eat fish low on the food chain (salmon, sardines, etc.). The higher on the food chain (swordfish, shark, etc.) the more heavy metals the fish will have.

All meat must be antibiotic/growth hormone free.

Grass fed cheese is really hard to find.

I do all the above. The cheese I eat isn't grass fed, but I don't eat a lot of it.

[GandK]

+1 to all of the above.

Re beef and cheese: I don't trust the labels on any of these foods, and I don't trust that the animals involved were treated ethically. (I grew up on a cattle farm; this is a big deal to me.) I used to make a point to only buy from farmers I personally knew, but so much farmland has been converted in Ohio/Kentucky that's no longer a feasible plan. Today I buy from the Amish whenever possible. It's not a 100% guarantee of natural, ethically produced food, but it's as close as I'm going to get without raising the cattle myself.

[black_son_of_gray]

It's worth pointing out early on in this thread that there is no single-most healthful diet. Different people react to the same foods differently.

That being said, generally less processed/adulterated foods are probably better. I think saying "saturated animal fat is actually very healthy and the best source of energy for humans, if it's from grass fed, healthy animals" is going too far. I would love to see some evidence that there is a medical consensus on that (seriously, I would- I'm not religiously against fat in the diet). Also, as I mentioned above, while some people can probably process saturated fats pretty well, others are probably doomed to cardiovascular issues if they do that! Nearly everything else I have seen in the literature (that wasn't funded by a vested industry) goes against that high saturated animal fat diet statement.

Hope I haven't just poked a bees nest with a stick - just putting out my 2 cents.

[Dragline]

+1 to Chad. But the most bang for your health -- the 80/20 rule for this -- involves simply avoiding processed meat products with nitrites and other additives. For most people the rest, as we say, is "gravy".

[jacob]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/28/health/he ... ndividual/

Aside for the obvious conclusions, a personal observation based on "surviving" xmas illustrates how stark the difference can be. After only 4 days of eating what much of the extended family thinks as "good food" (=roasts and potatoes + refined sugar snacks), my GI system already feels like crap (literally) whereas everybody else seems to voice no complaints at all.

My digestive system consider eggs, meats, etc. as side-dishes. It just can't handle the volume. Maybe I just lack the acid to process steak. As a result I eat like a poor but sophisticated farmer. Chinese style. Lots of skill. Lots of spices. Little meat. Mostly staples. But still ketchup. I'm not a barbarian.

The lesson I derive from this is that somehow my GI system seems naturally averse to the SAD diet whereas those who enjoy the SAD lifestyle (for a few decades) all seem to "enjoy" the consequent lifestyle diseases as well, i.e. diabetes, emphysema, edema, COPD, ...

[cmonkey]

The lesson I derive from this is that somehow my GI system seems naturally averse to the SAD diet whereas those who enjoy the SAD lifestyle (for a few decades) all seem to "enjoy" the consequent lifestyle diseases as well, i.e. diabetes, emphysema, edema, COPD, ...

I'm not sure its just your GI track, I suspect its everyone but the only ones who know they are averse are the ones who jump off the SAD wagon and eat like you do (and how we are starting to eat). If you were to start eating SAD for a long period of time, you'd probably get used to it and think its normal to feel crappy. It would probably have to be a long long time though.

Being at the in-laws for a week, we also succumbed to their eating habits (I mean the fudge is RIGHT there!) and gained at least 5 lbs each. Today is our first day back and I've had nothing but coffee and peanuts and I'm feeling pretty good.

[BRUTE]

It's worth pointing out early on in this thread that there is no single-most healthful diet. Different people react to the same foods differently.

probably true, brute has only lived in 1 body so far and can thus not report for other bodies.

Hope I haven't just poked a bees nest with a stick - just putting out my 2 cents.

brute put black_son_of_gray's name on the list for further consequences.

But still ketchup. I'm not a barbarian.

does not compute.

[steveo73]

http://nutritionfacts.org/

I'm not sold on everyone having different dietary needs and its about finding the diet that fits you. My take is that a whole food plant based diet is the best diet for everyone and I think the science backs this up. I eat meat and I eat some junk food but I would like to completely stop the junk food and eat less meat.

[black_son_of_gray]

@steveo73

Agreed. BUT, a "whole foods plant-based diet" still contains a huge variety of possible foods in varying amounts. And the latest, freshest insight into this aspect (the Cell paper in Jacob's link) very cleanly shows that even for 'healthy' foods like fruits and vegetables, some people react quite differently (e.g. a blood sugar spike when eating tomatoes). The Cell paper also shows an example of blood sugar spikes for two people eating a banana and a cookie. For one, it is the banana that does it, for another it is the cookie. Granted, blood sugar monitoring doesn't fully encapsulate 'healthful eating', but in Western societies, it's not a bad proxy for what is making us unhealthy.

It is a really a remarkable and surprising paper... check it out if you are into the the whole nutrition thing. I'm still chewing on it (gotta love the reading difficulty and acronyms of academic writing)

[steveo73]

@steveo73

Agreed. BUT, a "whole foods plant-based diet" still contains a huge variety of possible foods in varying amounts. And the latest, freshest insight into this aspect (the Cell paper in Jacob's link) very cleanly shows that even for 'healthy' foods like fruits and vegetables, some people react quite differently (e.g. a blood sugar spike when eating tomatoes). The Cell paper also shows an example of blood sugar spikes for two people eating a banana and a cookie. For one, it is the banana that does it, for another it is the cookie. Granted, blood sugar monitoring doesn't fully encapsulate 'healthful eating', but in Western societies, it's not a bad proxy for what is making us unhealthy.

It is a really a remarkable and surprising paper... check it out if you are into the the whole nutrition thing. I'm still chewing on it (gotta love the reading difficulty and acronyms of academic writing)

I will check it out but if its one paper describing blood sugar spikes I really doubt that it is stating much. I think when it comes to diet people often focus on the wrong things. In my opinion we should all be focussing on our to maximise our long term health.

[BRUTE]

I'm not sold on everyone having different dietary needs and its about finding the diet that fits you. My take is that a whole food plant based diet is the best diet for everyone and I think the science backs this up.

how does steveo define "whole foods" and "plant based"? brute is aware that humans like michael pollan have popularized these terms, but brute finds them relatively meaningless.

brute eats 200g of animal flesh per day. and tons of beans and rice. is brute's diet still "plant based"? it is mostly plants by weight and calories.

and what are "whole foods" and why are they automatically healthy?

brute has experimented a lot with fueling himself, and some plant based diets were absolutely horrendous for him - veganism among them. and brute was not one of those tofu-and-fries vegans, cooking 100% of his own meals. brute also does not tolerate many grains, they just physically make him sick within hours. brute does not have celiac.

so while steveo is convinced that a "whole food plant based" diet is best for everybody, brute does not find this advice correlates well with what works best for brute.

[steveo73]

Brute - I define whole foods and plant based as not being processed and not from animals. So I eat these chip like things that have whole grains in them but I don't think they are healthy. I wouldn't call them whole foods.

I don't know how much 200 gm of meat is but I think rice and beans are really good for you. I for instance haven't had a bean soup this week and I've noticed myself eating more junk food even if its supposedly healthier junk food. I think that we need some bulk in our diet via foods like rice and beans/lentils.

Why are whole foods healthy ? I think that basically we process food to make it tastier but we remove a bunch of the good stuff.

You can work out what works for you. I think we all have to do that. I also don't have any problems with eating some meat. Personally I am though trying to eat more food that is what I call whole foods and plant based. I think the science states that this type of eating is the way to increase your odds of living for as long as possible and as healthily as possible.

[BRUTE]

brute agrees on the "bulk" of beans and rice. there is something to be said for a physically full stomach. in addition, beans and rice are cheap all over the world, store well, and are easy to prepare.

brute also agrees that some processing makes food unhealthier. but it is hard to draw the line. most "food" only becomes food once we process it - probably with the exception of fruit, and some vegetables. beans and rice are usually dried, which is a process. it might depend on the type of process.

other foods seem very unhealthy to brute even relatively "unprocessed", for example wheat. then again you can argue that wheat has been processed to even become what it is today, as it likely evolved from some kind of barely edible grass. is seeding beans a process?

processed is one of those words that sound intuitive, but really isn't. if brute names a few "food" items, steveo will likely intuitively classify them as processed or unprocessed. but brute thinks that the distinction is not so clear, that even heavy processing isn't necessarily bad, and that being unprocessed doesn't necessarily make a food healthy. steveos intuition as to the processedness of certain "food" items has likely developed over years of trial and error, and reading a lot about nutrition. that's how it evolved for brute.

when the recommendation is to eat a "plant based diet", what's the percentage that's still "plant based"? vegan, vegetarian? is it plant based as long as there's tomato sauce on it? by weight? by calories? by micronutrients?

with brute coming from paleo, what brute and steveo eat on a daily basis is probably relatively similar (except maybe the amount of meat). brute just thinks that many people like Michael Pollan use these platitudes, implying it's really obvious how to get cheap, healthy, quick, tasty nutrition for all humans, when it's really not that obvious to most of them.

200g of chicken is about one thin chicken breast filet, maybe the size of a hand. in the store near brutes place, they sell plastic wrapped containers with 400g of chicken for about $1. brute buys one and uses it for 2 days' worth of meals. brute used to eat way more meat when he was doing Paleo with a capital P, but found that it actually tastes better, and is a lot cheaper, if there's not too much meat. brute is not a bodybuilder and does not require humungous amounts of protein.

[steveo73]

when the recommendation is to eat a "plant based diet", what's the percentage that's still "plant based"? vegan, vegetarian? is it plant based as long as there's tomato sauce on it? by weight? by calories? by micronutrients?

I don't try and judge it this closely. I also see some stupid stuff on veganism where its okay to eat a tonne of organic sugar for instance.

but found that it actually tastes better, and is a lot cheaper, if there's not too much meat.

I think a cheap healthier diet is definitely possible. My diet needs to improve but I'm making changes in that direction. I like for instance having a green smoothie for breakfast. I eat some nuts basically every day. I've been having a bean soup basically every day but the last two weeks I've been sick of that and found I'm eating more processed (in my opinion) crap.

[BRUTE]

cheap, healthy, quick - pick two

[Papers of Indenture]

Brute your diet sounds similar to what I find most suitable for myself. I lost a lot of weight on paleo a few years back and then let myself go. Recently i've been trying to reform my diet again and I have found that paleo didn't work for me this time around. Sure I lost weight with it but I didn't feel very good at all and it is very expensive.

My wife is Brazilian and her staple foods are white rice, black/pinto beans, and collard greens. It took me a while to feel ok eating rice coming from a paleo background but I find myself loving a hearty bowl of Basmati and black beans. The beans are stewed with a small portion of low sodium bacon or ham. I stay regular and feel good. I supplement that with eggs, chicken, fish, and assorted veggies. I still avoid pasta, bread, and sugary foods. The weight isn't melting off like it did with strict paleo but people are noticing that I am thinning out.

We just purchased a home 2 miles away from a neighbor who free ranges chickens so i'm looking forward to high quality fresh eggs.

[BRUTE]

My wife is Brazilian

caralho! papers of indenture e uma cara de sorte.

brutes staple rice/beans meal was actually inspired by feijoada.

[fiby41]

My wife is Brazilian

caralho! papers of indenture e uma cara de sorte.

brutes staple rice/beans meal was actually inspired by feijoada.

At least provide translation for us humans, yo. For anyone wondering it said papers of indenture is a lucky person.