Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

[Eureka]

Oh, ok. I looked it up and a cup of black coffee contains 0,05 g fat.

Not impressive, but your reply made me think further and since human beings (and all animals) basically only have been drinking water for hundreds of millions of years, it is no wonder than any other substance might promote or inhibit some kind of metabolic reaction somewhere in the body even if it is ingested in tiny amounts. And besides caffeine, coffee contains hundreds of other secondary metabolites so of course the effect on the fasting body must be different from drinking pure H2O. Pretty exciting stuff.

[UrbanHermit]

@BRUTE I'm curious about how you make WD work along with a low-carb diet. From what I understand the WD is mostly about having one big meal a day, and fasting through the interim? I guess I'm having a hard time imagining how I would regularly eat enough calories in one sitting to make that work.

For example yesterday for dinner I had half a roast chicken, a big salad topped with bacon and balsamic dressing, and a baked yam. That's a huge meal and I was stuffed afterwards, but it only totals ~1200 calories and my BMR alone is over 2k.

Does the fat in your coffee make up a significant portion of your daily total, or how are you getting the caloric density of your evening meal up to the point this works? Should I be eating a jar of almond butter with a spoon for desert or something?

[BRUTE]

@UrbanHermit:

fasting and keto go super well together. fasting is basically putting the body in ketosis (=fat burning mode). with a carby IF/WD, the body leaves ketosis once a day and then gets back in over night. with a keto diet, it just stays there.

eating enough isn't really a problem. fat is very energy dense.

the fat in the coffee probably adds up to 200-500kcal per day, depending. sometimes brute just adds cream, sometimes he adds a tsp of MCT oil.

for reference, the "huge meal" UrbanHermit has listed isn't actually a lot of energy. chicken is very lean, and salads are worthless in terms of energy, especially with balsamic dressing. so it's basically 1/2 chicken (very lean), some bacon (1 strip? 2?) and a yam.

it's very easy to get lots of energy with fat. cream can be added to almost anything, as can oil. instead of lean chicken, UrbanHermit could eat fattier meats like pork or ribeye steak. cooking with lots of butter and lard/tallow. using lots of olive oil in the salad. personally, brute doesn't like salads much. lots of effort, nothing in there.

brute likes to eat whipped cream with some cocoa powder or dark chocolate (melted) for dessert. cream only has 1/3 fat by weight (rest mostly water), but tastes great, and is quick and easy to make.

the easiest way though is to eat fatty cuts of meat and drench any sides like vegetables in buttery/creamy sauce.

[jennypenny]

TedX talk with Longo about the benefits of the Fasting Mimicking Diet

[jennypenny]

Fasting Diet for Diabetes 'Could Repair Pancreas'

[Clarice]

Immune system is influenced, among other things, by hormones. Hormone production is influenced by the time of the day. Your body reacts differently to different foods throughout the day. Here is a good resource that addresses these connections:

https://primalpotential.com/

[daylen]

I think exercise is a major factor in determining the appropriate fasting window. I have noticed that when I am highly active the eating window is best expanded to 12-8pm where caloric intake is gradually increased, but if I am inactive then the window can be narrowed to 5-8pm. The window also obviously depends on the ratio of fats/protein/carbs consumed to previous day.

[jennypenny]

I think current research suggests that the optimal daily fasting window should be 14 hours. Clock starts ticking at the first sip of coffee. I can't dig it up now (have an 8pm skype) but the info probably comes from Rhonda Patrick or Sachin Panda if you want to google it.

[BRUTE]

for what it's worth, brute's personal experience suggests the exact opposite of what Patrick and Panda claim. brute is never hungry in the morning, but does really well on large dinners. the opposite does not seem to work well in terms of comfort, fullness, and convenience.

Warrior Diet seems optimal to brute. with heavy workout load, eating window can be expanded to lunch and dinner.

[classical_Liberal]

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[classical_Liberal]

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[Kriegsspiel]

Why waste calories on fat and carbs? Eat a small amount of protein and some fish oil. Lyle McDonald wrote the book on Protein Sparing Modified Fasting, it's better than the protocol that site detailed:

As I mentioned in the previous chapter, therapeutic starvation for weight loss was great in terms
of the weight/fat loss that it generated but had one huge problem associated with it: the loss of too much
LBM. This sent researchers looking for a solution. Early studies tried giving small amounts of either
carbohydrates or fats for energy. In the short term, at least, carbs did have some protein sparing effect.
In the long-term, carbs were actually detrimental as they prevented the development and adaptation to
ketosis. Fat didn’t really have an effect either way except that it allowed ketosis to develop (because
carbs weren’t being eaten) so that the adaptations could take place.

Finally, someone got the bright idea to try just giving small amounts of proteins to see if this
would allow all of the ‘benefits’ of starvation without the large loss of body protein that was occurring.
Voila, this worked and folks realize that the most protein sparing nutrient of all is protein. Err, duh.
By providing protein intake, the liver was now using dietary protein instead of body protein to
make glucose, sparing the loss of LBM that had been occurring. This approach was called a protein
sparing modified fast or PSMF.

He also won't fuck you with some $250/week nonsense.

[BRUTE]

or just water fast. a week's not that long.

[BRUTE]

brute hasn't noticed any IQ drop, but he gets very irritable after 3+ days of not eating. hard to concentrate, too. so probably not to be advised during work. brute isn't convinced any "fast mimicking diet" would yield different results, though..

[jennypenny]

Augustus -- I posted some of Longo's suggestions earlier in the thread (before he started selling his own plan). There are links too but I haven't checked to see if they're dead.

[Sclass]

I got curious after reading this thread. I saw a documentary on Amazon called The Science of fasting a few days ago.

I wasn’t feeling so well so I checked my blood pressure that day. I struggle with hypertension and self treat it by drinking water, limiting salt, fish oil, weight control and early retirement. But for some reason I spiked up to 155/110 a few days ago. My SO said I’d been living it up too much on salty restaurant food for many days in a row. It seems everywhere you eat out they salt, sugar and fat bomb you.

She said she’d get me back in line with her healthy burdock (yuck) root soup. I hate that stuff. So I protested “I’d rather starve than eat that.”

So here I am in this lovely predicament. I’m ending day three of my fast. The first day my blood pressure dropped to 130/90 after skipping just two meals. Now three days in I’m down to 117/80. I would have never thought of trying this but somehow this old thread bubbled up to the Active topics.

Man the second day was a doozy. Light headed. Mild headaches. Cravings. 90% of it was in my head. I didn’t have hunger pains but I was hungry in my brain. Day 3 morning I was dreaming about curry and basmati rice. My SO said I yelled out “that’s really good” in my sleep several times.

A friend was eating Cheetos in front of me tonight. Torture. Then she said hey, “Sclass how about I make some chocolate crepes.” I got to sit there and watch my SO and friend gobble down crepes and Dove ice cream bars. Aarrrrgghhh!!

My daily walk turned into an ordeal for day 2&3. I’m so weak on the hills. No energy. No muscle strength. Sometimes It felt difficult getting up out of a chair. My legs felt weak. Luckily this is going away tonight. Maybe I’m getting over the hump?

This has been a very interesting experience. Skin is tingly. Joints loosened up. Aching knees gone. I’m cold.

I don’t think I’ve ever gone beyond fasting for one day. I did some fasts for medical exams but those were 24hrs. This is a whole new level. I guess I grew up in a modern society that insisted I eat three meals a day and I always did.

Thanks for sharing. I wonder how long my hypertension will stay away. I don’t want to do this very often. Serves me right for indulging in restaurant food everyday. Not sure if I’ll break the fast on day 4. I have a lunch meeting tomorrow and I don’t want to explain myself there.

[slowtraveler]

Fasts are amazing. I do 2 a week for 24 hours when I want to lose weight and it's the only diet I can stick to. Eat everything I want rest of the time.

Biggest challenge is breaking the fast with a small meal rather than binging. Binges make me tired and feel sick. Small meals make me feel good after fasts.

[BRUTE]

... symptoms of adapting to fat metabolism ...

welcome to ketosis. it gets easier after day 3. it will stay easier the next time. if done a few times, Sclass will be able to just not eat for 2-3 and not even notice.

adding salt can actually help get over the headache and dizziness, but if the whole point is to lower blood pressure, maybe not.

[enigmaT120]

or just water fast. a week's not that long.

Cheaper, too. I'm not trying to lose weight or anything, but I've started fasting on Friday's. Since I rarely eat before noon it turns into a 36 hour fast. Saturdays are rest days for me but I have no problems with my workouts on Friday. I think adding Sat. would be easy. I've never tried over 2 days. Don't see any point.

[Sclass]

I’m in the fourth day. Cancelled lunch. This is more important.

Funny taste in mouth. Dry mouth. I’m a little stronger but going up the stairs requires effort unlike in my pre fast days. Thumb joints feel great. Hearing and vision seem more acute but it feels similar to THC intoxication if I can recall it. Still dreaming about food. Had a little insomnia last night but I just slept in. Blood pressure came in at 116/87 this morning. Shocking results. I wonder how long they’ll last. I’ll have to clean up my habits of course. I’m having visions of Kefta and Aloo Paratha...I’ll have a salad instead.

I’ve decided to end this tonight. I’ve made it close to four days. I’ll get more ambitious on the next go round in a few months. Right now I’m just freaking hungry. I’m going to start up slow tonight with some broth and fruit.

Never got to the “euphoria” part. Not too sure what enhanced brain activity would do to me given my abnormal mind. Happy with the blood pressure reduction without drugs.

Something that jumped out of the fog is that I spend a lot of time preparing food. I never realized it till I stopped eating. I literally freed up several hours a day if you include the shopping trips.

Thanks all.