Sex, Health and Aging

[7Wannabe5]

Given that I am a 50 year old female who has the goal of still being sexually active at age 79 and intends to take responsibility for her own related health issues moving forward, what would be my most rational choice in partner selection, all other things being equal, but varying level health/fitness vs. age, based on the results of this study? Also, what would be the best measure(s) of health/fitness to apply beyond current observed level of sexual activity/interest? Also, is it the case that this study is highly or only perhaps moderately indicative of correlation between current observed level of sexual activity/interest in potential partner and likelihood of finding oneself in role of long-term caretaker and/or widow?

http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c810

Also, what is a more socially acceptable or romantic-sounding way to communicate something like "I am interested in forming a partnership with the primary mission being the establishment and maintenance of a daily sexual practice into later years, given mutual attraction and lack of other forms of intolerable behavior such as putting post-it notes that say "Clean Me" on the coffee pot. etc. etc. ?"

[jennypenny]

From the conclusion ... "Sexually active life expectancy was longer for men, but men lost more years of sexually active life as a result of poor health than women." Doesn't that seem backwards given that women are the ones who jump through hoops to look younger and prettier for longer? Or does it mean that the typical middle-age health issues that strike men affect performance more than the ability to get a partner?

Sorry 7W5, I have no advice for you. If I found myself single (I'm 49), I think I would just stay independent and enjoy the company of others when the mood struck.

[Ego]

Also, what is a more socially acceptable or romantic-sounding way to communicate something like "I am interested in forming a partnership with the primary mission being the establishment and maintenance of a daily sexual practice into later years......

A guy who likes blueberry muffins in general and, it turns out, likes your blueberry muffins, isn't thinking about how delicious that same exact blueberry muffin is going to be when he's 79. To even bring it up makes him look at the blueberry muffin you just placed in front of him in a whole different light.

Don't get me wrong, it is important. It just strikes me as somehow, I don't know, mis-prioritized.

[EdithKeeler]

Also, what is a more socially acceptable or romantic-sounding way to communicate something like "I am interested in forming a partnership with the primary mission being the establishment and maintenance of a daily sexual practice into later years, given mutual attraction and lack of other forms of intolerable behavior such as putting post-it notes that say "Clean Me" on the coffee pot. etc. etc. ?"

I'd go for "Hey, you wanna come in for (ahem) coffee?" Later you can say "Hey, I'd like to make this a regular thing, but I don't necessarily want to get married or live together."

And, daily? Wow. That's a big goal.

Hehhehe, blueberry muffins. Funny!

[Ego]

Okay, if blueberry muffins are silly, how about fish? I haven't been fishing for a while but I'll give it a try.

It strikes me that the guy who (as you put it in another post) wants to climb you like a tree tonight is a different species from the guy who will want to climb that same tree every night for the next thirty years. Trying to catch a sailfish while simultaneously chumming for sharks may be giving you the excitement of reeling in a fighter at the expense of, ah, um, never catching the sailfish....

Forget it. I'm terrible at this.

[JL13]

I'm not sure I totally understand the original question. Does the person you sleep with at age 50 have to be the same person you sleep with at age 79? Does the person who provides long term care have to be a sexual partner (past or present)? Which are your goals?

[7Wannabe5]

@jp- The average age difference between men and women in second marriages (or other partnerships) is quite a bit greater than found in partnerships formed in youth. I think that is the driving force behind the conclusion you quoted, along with the fact that health issues may directly influence performance as well as partner availability for men. For better or worse, I have found that it is a regular practice of older men to disclose all of their current health issues on a first or second date.

I certainly empathize with your notion that staying independent might be a very good choice, but what would be your practice for "enjoying the company of others when the mood struck." I mean, it can, in theory, be almost as easy as ordering a pizza in the age of the internet, but we are talking about real people, not sex robots, so it's actually not.

@EK- Daily practice isn't that difficult of a goal. Maybe 5% of the male population would give it a go. Much easier than finding somebody who is intellectually compatible. Of course, when you find a guy whose favorite author is Henry Miller, and he also has a copy of "Portnoy's Complaint" on his shelves, then you can pretty much give him a pass through both of those filters

@Ego- Good point with the muffin analogy. I should note that I would never say anything quite that nerdy or forward in real life and it is my intention to attempt to maintain a reasonably presentable appearance until age 79 even if I have to spend a few pennies. Let me make use of the fishing analogy myself. It's like I am simultaneously the rational woman holding the fishing pole and the wriggling worm at the end of the hook (given that the worm has some sort of masochistic sensual drive to get herself snapped up.) What I am attempting to do by forming a sensible partnership mission statement, at least in my own head, is keep myself more in fisher-woman rather than worm mode. However, I should also note that it has been my experience dating middle-aged men, unlike the boys of my youth, that they are mostly quite serious-commitment-relationship oriented, frequently much more so than I am. Although, of course, it does not necessarily follow that I would be the woman with whom any given man would wish to engage in serious relationship, or vice-versa. IOW, by age 50 or so, even the worst of the rogue sharks have chosen a path of self-reformation, but are still apt to make use of whatever rogue skills they have accumulated over the years to render themselves more attractive.


@J_L13- My partner at 79 wouldn't necessarily have to be the same partner I would have at 50, but the study above actually made me think that I might be better off with long-term commitment if I do want to still be sexually active at 79. Thus, my next step down the flow chart to the further questions. I feel little need to secure a long-term care provider for myself. I have 3 younger sisters and a naturally extremely responsible guardian personality type daughter, and they are all quite fond of me. My sisters and I have agreed to live together and care for each other when we are so old that "all our men have died off." It is the likelihood that I would end up in caretaker role in relationship to older male partner for an extended period that concerns me. Obviously, I also already have children and a family. Therefore, sexual and companionship partnership would be my primary goals in forming relationship(s) until I am 79 or so. I might decide that I would be okay with a "Wednesdays and Weekends" grandma's forever-boyfriend type partner, but it seems sort of blah to me.

[enigmaT120]

I think the way you originally stated it (OP) was fine, but I value clear communication over romance. I'm not sure if the physical types you seem to prefer are generally the most fit/healthy, though.

[7Wannabe5]

@enigmaT120- My physical type varies. Like most women, I generally prefer men who are larger than me in some dimension, but it could be height, shoulder breadth, overall volume, even just stance. I also tend towards a preference for either redheads or men who are quite dark, for some unknown reason. I am currently making a pointed effort to avoid dating men who I just find attractive for superficial reasons that do not correlate to health, such as massive arm and shoulder development and/or handsome facial features. The two men I have been giving serious consideration of late are both in great shape for their age. One bikes 12-15 miles a day (up to 100 miles) and hits the gym regularly and the other uses a rowing machine and actually has something close to a 6-pack and wants to hike the Continental Divide. In fact, I am starting to believe that I may have to up my own practice, because I am only going to be able to skate by on more-shapely-than in-shape for maybe a few more years. Also, I tend towards getting kind of competitive when my companion laughs at me because I can't do something. Which is why I mostly try to hang out with people who have better practice than me. Like everybody on this forum!!

[GandK]

This topic makes me squeamish.

Like jennypenny, I doubt I would remarry if something happened to my spouse. And I'm therefore not sure what my "love life" would look like after that point, if it even existed. But, for better or worse (PI), I'm one of those tortured romantics who cannot separate sex and love. So I would definitely not conduct the sort of enquiry you're describing. Although it sounds like it might be fun, even as an experiment.

[7Wannabe5]

@GandK- Oh, I can't separate in-love and sex for very long either. It's just that I sometimes start out in the sex box and then end up in the in-love box, rather than vice-versa. IOW, sometimes my monkey roughly and rudely zips my bunny into her bright pink backpack if she wants some adventure. Doesn't happen right away, but once I scent-bond with a man then I am pretty much done for, unless I purposefully attempt to apply anti-limerance practice in alignment with objective self-interest. At this point in my life/experience, I am more capable of over-riding either tendency with rational thought/practice. Don't go into the donut store, if you don't intend to eat a donut. No repetitive behaviors such as listening to the playlist he made for you again and again. ONLY follow literal instruction. Cold turkey on any contact etc. etc. etc. The interesting, even more useful, thing I have learned is that choosing to engage in the opposite practice(s) will cause/allow you to "fall in love" with a partner again if that is what is in your self-interest. Also, in my book, true love is a verb, not a feeling, and only time will tell on that.

[IlliniDave]

I smiled all the way through this thread.

I think Edith K has it right. Put on a pair of Nike shoes and just do it. You cant just jettison your rational side, but I would with great humility suggest that perhaps you are injecting a smidge too much thought into this? No amount of handwringing will guarantee success, even if you goals were somewhat more on the reasonable side. Life is messy. Wade in and write boldly.

When fishing, the pole is an extension of the fisherman, as is the line and the bait. You have to be all at once to be consistently successful, and like many physical skills, if you're thinking too much about what you're doing while you do it, you probably won't do it well.

I guess it's easy to see why I've evolved into a loner. It's staggeringly apparent I do not measure up to what women in my age cohort expect, much less the expectations of women commensurately younger than me given my used condition

[EMJ]

I also wonder about extrapolating from 50 to 79. It's like thinking the 20 year old and 49 year old you want the same thing - 30 years is a long, long time!
I'm aiming the mature gracefully in both body and mind with an open mind regarding all sorts of changes.

[1taskaday]

It's the attractiveness issue with regard to the small man and the "stance" image that has me truly intrigued!

Just can't get it out of my head-so funny.

[enigmaT120]

I also wonder about extrapolating from 50 to 79. It's like thinking the 20 year old and 49 year old you want the same thing - 30 years is a long, long time!

That might not be the best example, as I still want the same thing at 51 as I did at 20. I think there is probably more change after 50 than before, at least for anybody who works out at all.

[GandK]

That might not be the best example, as I still want the same thing at 51 as I did at 20. I think there is probably more change after 50 than before, at least for anybody who works out at all.

Really?! Good Lord, I don't. I'm 41 instead of 51, but whether you're talking about external or internal specifics, almost nothing that excited me at 20 would excite me today. The associations I've formed since then - positive and negative - are way too powerful.

[7Wannabe5]

@1TaskaDay: "Stance" is really just an aspect of displaying dominant behavior. If it makes it easier to imagine, put Al Pacino in the role of the guy who said "Baby, I'd climb you like a tree." to me. When I said the situation was awkward, I meant it was awkward for me, not him. Of course, if he had been really interested, he would have maneuvered to get me alone and grab my hair to bring me down to his level or something like that. Anyways, we did have a pleasant conversation over coffee about flipping houses and dealing with young adult children.

@IlliniDave: You are right. I was trying to maybe learn a new skill, but I suck at it. I am no good at being the fisher-woman. I am only good at being the worm. I'll just end up with the next attractive dominant who wants to keep me, like always. Anyways, I can't invite a man in for "coffee", like Edith suggested because I live with my sister and I don't even own a bed, but it doesn't matter because the biker jumped me in the parking garage after our first date and the rower invited me over for martinis after our third date. Also, methinks your false humility is a sure sign that you will have no difficulties yourself if/when you choose to re-enter the field

@others: I would say that my sexuality is the same at core as it was when I was 14 but greatly expanded since then. IOW, my identity hasn't changed, but many of my preferences have. The reason I was trying to extrapolate forward to 79 is that I have been thinking a lot lately about how surprised 21 year old me would have been to know how it is for me at age 50, which is better than ever in most ways. I guess I either still will be attractive to somebody I find attractive when I am 79 or not. Like Taleb says, when it comes to relationships "attraction" is the anti-fragile realm (Drops pole. Picks up weights and botox coupon.)

[IlliniDave]

... your false humility is a sure sign ...

Ouch! Exaggerated maybe, but false?

I think "his place" or even parking garages fit within the spirit of what EdithKeeler was saying; the point being to get the ball rolling and work out the rules of engagement along the way rather than strike a spit-shake agreement up front.

[JL13]

I totally agree that it's unrealistic to expect two people not to change over the course of decades. On the other hand, the idea of the psychological perception of age being logarithmic would indicate that 50 to 79 is a much smaller change than say, 20 to 49.

http://www.kafalas.com/Logtime.html

The difference between 50 and 79 is the same as 32 to 50, subjectively.

This is the mental component. I guess if we're talking about the physical component (the physical ability to do the same things and/or the ability and desire to be sexual with each other), I suppose you could find a partner who agrees to let the other one "stray", if the differences grow too large? I mean someone who loves and supports you enough to allow you the freedom to seek your own activities and desires (includes sexual ones). Of course, allowing your partner roam is an extreme form of "we each have our separate hobbies". But I think it's only a difference in degree.

It would take a very mature and enlightened person.

[7Wannabe5]

@IlliniDave: Sorry, didn't mean to be backhanded with my compliment : ) I should note that my real life presence is not exactly like my writing voice. My main handicap is that I have 98% N and only 2% S, so it's kind of like I'm wandering around in an absent-minded cloud until somebody does get my attention by doing something like jumping me in a parking garage. IOW, my usual behavior errs on the side far, far away from getting spit-and-sign agreement upfront.

@J_L13: The main problem with agreement to stray is that you are bringing in (at least) a third party with his or her own needs for satisfaction and security. I think a general default to "yes" rather than default to "no" policy is useful because it forces creative problem solving. I was in a sexual relationship for almost 2 years with a man who turned 70 while we were together, so I already know how to solve many of the problems that typically come with aging. I'm not dead-set on daily practice, but I think it is a good idea because it's easier to form physiological habits with a natural diurnal cycle. I really don't think it is any more difficult to do this than to agree to cook and eat dinner at home most every day or engage in routine physical exercise every day. One objection people make to this concept is along the lines of "But, what about spontaneity?" It's not like you can't spontaneously grab a chili dog for lunch after a swim even though you have an agreement to cook dinner together at home, and it's not like you can't vary the cuisine or setting. Anyways, the reason why this is a big deal and at some level deal-maker/breaker issue for me is that I was married to a man with a significantly lower sex drive than me and I was absolutely miserable. Nothing I've had to deal with since my divorce 8 years ago has even come close to being as bad as being trapped in that sort of situation. I bailed as soon as my youngest child reached a reasonable level of maturity and I can't even imagine what besides the welfare of my children could motivate me to stay in such a relationship. Therefore, it would be dishonest for me to enter into any sort of major commitment without making that boundary clear. However, it is also true, as others have noted, that it is not strictly necessary for me to communicate this prior to any commitment being made.