More on Microbiome

[Ego]

Good overview. I'm hitting a good portion of those prebiotics on his list, along with the normal probiotics (yogurt, pickels, kombucha, etc.). I haven't tried some of the ones on your list (bamboo, sprouted beans, and seaweed).

How are you doing the kombucha? My mom used to keep one in a bowl on top of the fridge and take a shot doily.

[Chad]

I'm doing it the non-ERE way. I buy it:

http://synergydrinks.com/index.php/prod ... d-kombucha

I haven't gotten around to trying to make it myself. The tea is slightly sweet, but doesn't have a ton of sugar. It's kind of a treat for myself 1-3 times a week.

[Chad]

First do harm. Infecting brain tumors with fecal bacteria causes the immune system to attack them.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/ ... -the-brain

Shame they attacked that doctor. Having been in that exact same situation with my mother I don't think the doctor did anything wrong. The patient's family, on the other hand, is definitely in the wrong for attacking him after the procedure failed.

[jennypenny]

I'm always afraid to click on the links in this thread.

Do you grow your own sprouts?

Most probiotics aren't safe for celiacs (natural or supplements), especially if they're told to stay away from lactose as well. It's a weird problem that I haven't been able to solve adequately.

[Chad]

Most probiotics aren't safe for celiacs (natural or supplements), especially if they're told to stay away from lactose as well. It's a weird problem that I haven't been able to solve adequately.

Are most of the prebiotics safe for you? I hope so.

On a side note, I heard on the FoundMyFitness podcast that fish oil has been shown to increase the good bacteria. Unfortunately, it's been a while, so I don't remember the exact podcast. But, she is a Ph.d and I know it was either her or one of the scientists she has one that said it.

[Ego]

Do you grow your own sprouts?

Yeah, I just soak them overnight then let them sit at room temp for 24-36 hours. They begin to grow tails. I use very few. Maybe a small handful. My goal is a wide variety of different fibers. Since they're going into the vita-mush I don't really have to worry too much about taste.

I didn't know that celiacs can't do probiotics. Maybe you can supplement, ahem, at the other end of the system with some borrowed bugs.

On a side note, I heard on the FoundMyFitness podcast that fish oil has been shown to increase the good bacteria. Unfortunately, it's been a while, so I don't remember the exact podcast. But, she is a Ph.d and I know it was either her or one of the scientists she has one that said it.

I read the same thing in several different studies. I try to get omega 3s from ground flax seeds but now that we're back in civilization I think I'll also try the algae grown omega 3s. But they're expensive.

[jennypenny]

Maybe you can supplement, ahem, at the other end of the system with some borrowed bugs.

Ha! Not likely.

The few probiotics that are safe don't seem to be as effective. I upgraded to the liquid fish oil for my smoothies. Expensive, but I notice a difference.

[Ego]

Ha! Not likely.

Aw come on. Somebody here has to go first.

[jennypenny]

not it

[Ego]

Just happened to see this today from Elena Verdú. Apparently she is the person to watch for the latest on celiacs and microbiome:

http://www.gutmicrobiotawatch.org/en/20 ... c-disease/

[Ego]

We already have a vague sense that we should eat better and avoid GM foods and pesticides. It's tough (impossible?) to otherwise translate this information into concrete steps.

Nutritionfacts is doing a series on microbiome. He outlines the enterotypes in this video and compares African-Americans to native Africans.

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/whats-y ... nterotype/

Then he explains how to change your enterotypes in this one.

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to- ... enterotype

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterotype

[jennypenny]

I get what he's saying, but I have trouble reconciling that with the fact that many people (myself included) are much healthier on a paleo/lc/animal protein diet. I suspect that people who watch their diet enough to choose one and stick with it probably eat better overall even if their diet is full of animal protein, but still ... there has to be more to it than what he says.

The part where he says that our gut flora shifts quickly between the two diets was interesting. Maybe they'll find that the trick is to eat like we used to with IF/vegetarian grazing interspersed with protein gorges.

[Dragline]

Well, you have to understand that the purpose of the nutritionfacts site is to encourage vegetarian or vegan eating habits, so all the research described is cherry-picked in that direction. The "cure" for most everything there is to "eat only plants and don't ever eat meat." Even to the point of recommending supplements over real food to deal with the likely nutrient deficiencies of such a diet that even Gregor acknowledges -- if you look close enough.

It's too bad they are not up front about it and just call the site "The Benefits of Plant-Based Diets" or something along those lines.

[jennypenny]

I wonder if the differences in gut flora he talked about in those videos are just a correlation and not the cause of diseases like colon cancer. Like everyone else I'm sure, I've known several people who've succumbed to colon cancer including DH's BF last year. Some were heavy, some thin; some were active, some not; some were drinkers or smokers, and some weren't. The only commonality among them was that they all had desk jobs. Makes me wonder if it's not the animal protein itself, but that we're not built to eat meat and sit all day. Maybe it's the combination of the two that's deadly.

@Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.

[GandK]

@Ego: thanks for the links. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this.

[Ego]

@Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RBfoITbls

Even to the point of recommending supplements over real food to deal with the likely nutrient deficiencies of such a diet that even Gregor acknowledges -- if you look close enough.

It's too bad they are not up front about it and just call the site "The Benefits of Plant-Based Diets" or something along those lines.

He was interviewed by Dr. Mercola yesterday and spoke about this. His day job is the Director of Public Health for the Humane Society but the site is a labor of love funded like wikipedia.

https://youtu.be/ZjH-sSD65M8?t=21m36s

[jennypenny]

@Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RBfoITbls

So. Wrong.

[Dragline]

He was interviewed by Dr. Mercola yesterday and spoke about this. His day job is the Director of Public Health for the Humane Society but the site is a labor of love funded like wikipedia.

Um. no. He is funded by this foundation: http://www.raschfoundation.org/about/

Essentially some very wealthy people with very specific ideas and goals. Not unlike the Koch brothers, but with a different focus.

I do not mind their support or their perspective. What is disturbing is how they hide their identity and their goals behind a number of links. That you think their funding is like "wikipedia" illustrates the level of deception. Classic Eddie Bernays type stuff.

[Lemon]

@Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RBfoITbls

So. Wrong.

Can't say I can advocate for what the video suggests. But we do use faecal transplants for people with certain infections. (as like a 3rd line option although tbh that is largely due to gross factor/cost than anything else). Although not with 'pure' donors. Best match is family that share the same environment as the patient normally. Failing that tends to be the lab staff. UK doesn't pay $40 a poop!

Anything beyond that sort of narrow window is a little 'far out' for now. Not that it isn't interesting.

[Ego]

His day job is the Director of Public Health for the Humane Society but the site is a labor of love funded like wikipedia.

Um. no. He is funded by this foundation: http://www.raschfoundation.org/about/

Like the Kock brothers. Hum. What would John Locke call that?

http://nutritionfacts.org/faq

Then how do the bills get paid? The Jesse and Julie Rasch Foundation provided the critical start-up seed money and expertise to get us off the ground, but now NutritionFacts.org runs strictly on the NPR or Wikipedia model of accepting donations from users who appreciate the content.

That said, I agree that he is biased toward a plant based approach and away from meat. In my opinion does a good job of checking his bias. For instance he did a series on how too much soy (the typical meat substitute for vegetarians) is not good.

You seem to be suggesting that something in those videos is untrue. Granted, he is piecing together new research so it is not the whole picture. Which he says.

From my perspective it makes sense. There seems to me to be a high correlation between the amount of meat consumed and incidence of certain diseases. I could be wrong. As far as I know, the research suggests that I am not.