Burning Out Studying CS

[slowtraveler]

Hello,

I'm studying CS in SV and am feeling burnt out on it. I've switched majors multiple times and feel some challenges staying focused on a major for a long-time. Maybe I'm burnt out on school?

I'm an INTP/ENFP depending on when in my life I've taken the test, N and P are consistent, the I vs E and T vs F are barely over the halfway point each time I take the test. I'm very much an "Ooh, shiny" type, fascinated by fields from gardening to astronomy to meditation. I love learning a little about many things, not going too deep into more than a few fields.

I've got an Associate's in Bio, I could get an Associate's in CS with 2 more classes once this quarter ends. a Bachelor's in CS or a Bachelor's in Econ/Biz in bout 2-3yrs.

I know CS has the most jobs but I feel I'd be miserable there. I love learning more about how computers work as I see them as a huge trend in my life. Though I also dread every single class and feel more anxiety, agitation, stress just thinking about programming sometimes. With Econ, I at least enjoy learning about finance and feel it's much easier so I don't have to stress so much to do the assignments. My brain doesn't feel overwhelmed on where to even start or what I'm doing like it now does with CS.

I know this choice is purely my own and I also know many of you are way further down this path than I. Should I push through the CS or should I focus my energy somewhere with less of an uphill battle (Econ/Biz)?

[ether]

Why not just get an IT job?
No programming needed and you got enough skills to get a basic job!

[slowtraveler]

I hadn't thought of that. The main IT jobs I think of are software developer or entrepreneur.

What IT jobs would you recommend looking into?

[Scott 2]

You don't have to program to put a CS degree to work. Project manager, business analyst, quality assurance, security analyst, technical writer, database administrator, data analyst, user experience designer, etc.

Programming might have the buzz, but the industry is far more diverse than that.

Have you done any internships? They can be a good way to see how diverse the range jobs is out there.

[slowtraveler]

Security Analyst, data analyst, user experience designer-those sound like they could be rewarding. Once I graduate, I don't think it'll be as programming-focused.

The main challenge for me is in garnering the motivation to finish all these programming classes. I've finished the C++ classes and it seems like most classes forward still have plenty of programming involved.

I haven't done any internships here but I'm getting my resume polished up and thinking to go for an internship at intuit with the Mint team to work on user experience design.

[Tyler9000]

IMHO, you need to stop hopping from one plan to another and start thinking about how to synthesize your skills into something both useful and enjoyable. Looking at your Bio and CS background, I'm reminded of three different people I know who got into database/IT work for hospitals and/or medical companies. That seems like a field with a lot of opportunity that may appeal to you on a few levels and where your unique path to get there would be a strength.

FWIW, when I was studying for my mechanical engineering degree it did not come easily. Many of the subjects were very difficult, and the heavy course load stressed me out at times. But I stuck with it and I'm really glad I did. It gets easier once you graduate and find your niche. School is nothing like the real world, so don't let a rough patch taint your image of what a CS job will be like every day. Internships are a fantastic way to figure that part out and are a low-key way to try a bunch of different things. Make that a priority, and school will shift from your immediate goal (that's stressing you out because you can't see where it's leading) to its more appropriate role as a bridge to something better.

[FBeyer]

... It gets easier once you graduate and find your niche...

I've been rummaging around looking for my niche since 2000. Going on 16 years now, there is not a single thing yet that I've ever wanted to do for more than one year at a time.

I'm facing a lot of the same issues as Felipe currently, although from a slightly different angle, and as a consequence I'm looking into stuff like Barbara Sher's books on 'Scanners' and things like the puttylike.com website and the associated book The Renaissance business.

I'm dying very much on the inside if I have to do the same thing for prolonged periods of time, and it's not just boredom, but a kind of depression that seeps into my entire everyday life (just look at the current state of my journal, I'm truly fighting not to go insane at the moment) if I have to do something I find unrewarding or boring, even if it was something I found rewarding 3 months ago.

If Felipe is anything like: http://www.slideshare.net/darrylheron/r ... -a-scanner then I wholeheartedly feel for him, I feel the same and hearing someone who found his niche say 'just find your niche' feels like having your legs chopped off and someone pats you on the back and says: Cheer up, just grow some new legs and you'll be fine.

[vexed87]

@Felipe, another INTP here, I am familiar with the experience of the flip flop of interests. When it comes to deciding what to do, I enjoy the process of learning about a new topic/interest, investigating it intensely, becoming competent enough to fulfill my needs in that area and then moving to the next thing.

My experience of studying was soldiering through exams and assignments for my undergrad and postgrad in biology and bioscience. They really did feel like a slog now that I look back on them, but I'm glad I stuck the course. I have a comfortable 9-5 career, and while not as highflying as DW's career, it simply doesn't come up high in my list of priorities. It's all about finding the time for constant learning for me. I echo the suggestion to find your niche. Easier said than done right? While you have no major commitments, you have job hop until you find the right thing for you. Just enjoy being who you are, so long as you make enough to be happy and pursue your interests, it doesn't really matter what you do for work, if CS turns out to be a bore, simply move on.

For the INTP, it's definitely more abouts the means than the end, so enjoy the ride.

[cmonkey]

What IT jobs would you recommend looking into?

You could also get into infrastructure. Managing servers (Linux) and the software sitting on them, essentially. The larger organizations have a few layers of infrastructure you could get into, right down at the core of managing the hardware, right up to where I am at managing software sitting on Linux that is used by the next layer up the business. Once you "get" the job, though, it's pretty easy work, especially once you have a stable environments, so there is the potential of getting bored if you don't know how to keep yourself busy.

Keep in mind, though, the lower you go on the "IT totem pole", the more pressure there is to keep the website up.

[Tyler9000]

I've been rummaging around looking for my niche since 2000. Going on 16 years now, there is not a single thing yet that I've ever wanted to do for more than one year at a time.

I'm the exact same way! FWIW, I eventually found (about eight employers later) that my best work environment is design consulting. With every project completely different and no project lasting for more than about six months, it's a nice setup for my polymath INTP personality. YMMV, but don't give up looking or take it as a failure if you want to move on and job hop. Be comfortable with who you are.

If Felipe is anything like: http://www.slideshare.net/darrylheron/r ... -a-scanner then I wholeheartedly feel for him, I feel the same and hearing someone who found his niche say 'just find your niche' feels like having your legs chopped off and someone pats you on the back and says: Cheer up, just grow some new legs and you'll be fine.

"Finding your niche" doesn't mean getting your dream job. I only meant to point out that in school you have very little say over the types of problems you're required to solve while after you graduate you have a lot more choice. As Scott 2 mentioned, CS can be taken many different directions that your professors may not even consider.

[ether]

I hadn't thought of that. The main IT jobs I think of are software developer or entrepreneur.

What IT jobs would you recommend looking into?

Do what I did. Go to your college's career offices and get a list of every company that attends your colleges job fairs. Then go on each companies' website and find something along of the lines of "IT intern" "Technical Associate" "IT development program" "IT rotational program" "IT leadership development"

The main sectors in IT are programming, networking & infrastructure, security, database management, project management, and analyst. Then they will introduce you to each facet of IT and you can then make an educated decision. Biggest thing is getting into these programs first, then you can find your niche based on your interests and what's most needed.

In the United States there are:
1500k Programers (Median pay: $100k)
800k Technical support ($50k)
600k Analysts ($85k)
550k Sysadmins ($85k)
400k Managers ($125k)
150k Web dev ($60k)
100k Security ($90k)
100k Database managers ($80k)

[BRUTE]

web dev $60k? must be the php guys dragging down the average..

brute recommends finishing the degree as quickly and with as little effort as possible. gaming the system works well. most boring courses can just be ignored and grades still be achieved by cramming 2-3 days before the exam.

there are indeed tons of interesting jobs with this degree. most of them have some amount of coding, but not all. security analyst is a good example, it sounds more like being a puzzle solver that can code, too, and it's super well paid.

it's also different to write code for university courses vs. in a real job. brute hated coding for courses because it's such an artificial environment where he was being micromanaged by the professors. in real jobs, coding is completely different and became fun again. it's not always fun, but most of the time.

it might be Felipe is having burnout of implementing stupid o(n) algorithms that no one is ever going to use, and uselessly writing patterns for the sake of writing patterns. brute had this for sure.

[FBeyer]

... and grades still be achieved by cramming 2-3 days before the exam...

WOW!
That means I could have gotten through university with only 96 days of work and a year long Master's project and still gotten good grades.

Don't I feel silly now...

[BRUTE]

there is something to be said for actually learning things in university, but if someone is burned out and just wants to get it over with..

[slowtraveler]

Wow, thank you all for the support. I really appreciate it.

I feel I'm burning out on school in general and ready to start contributing. Nobody seems to think Econ would be a good choice over CS, I felt mostly allured to it since it seems easier for minimal effort than CS and I'm currently drawn to understanding finance. CS can do most of the things Econ could but not vice-versa so I can see why.

@Tyler: I've volunteered with hospitals and that's what drove me away from Bio, it wasn't worth it to me to finish grad school for a decent job I wouldn't enjoy.

I agree that interning is something I'd benefit from and I'm refining my resume to apply for some positions and see how interning feels relative to school. Thank you for illuminating the role of school as a bridge rather than something indefinite.

@FBeyer: Your comment really resonates with me. I feel like I'm dying on the inside and have a depression building up from forcing myself to go to school. When I finally let myself look at the idea of taking an extended break from school, finish up this quarter then take a LOA for year and a half or so, my heart lightened up.

I did a cost-benefit analysis and the costs of going to school seem to greatly outweigh the benefits. I'll sit on this till the end of the quarter before finalizing my decision.

I've been seeking my niche for a while now. I've enjoyed building a 401k for a company and that still appeals to me since it's such little work on an ongoing basis. Most other things have created nice skills but nothing with long-term appeal. Honestly, working 40 hours a week for years on end doesn't feel like it'd work for me.

@vexed87: Moving on from a topic after I feel competent is so natural to me. MMA, gardening, Bio, working out. Now I'm fascinated by finance and have done some work here, rewarding so far.

CS is still interesting to me but the way I'm learning it in school feels draining. I think interning and volunteering in tech would be a better way to actually learn, feel fulfilled learning, and earn some dollars.

Managing servers, databases, analyzing data, security analysis, user exp design-these are the tech jobs that have stuck out to me as things that may be fulfilling and fascinating.

@cmonkey: Managing servers could be interesting. I've done website design work and got over it pretty quick but I've had a lingering interest for understanding servers more deeply for a while now.

Where would you reccommend learning more about managing or understanding servers?

@ether: Thanks for the advice, I'll look into this when I'm at school this coming week.

@BRUTE: I don't feel I'm contributing in school. More banging my head against a wall until I figure out how to solve the same problem everyone else in class is solving. No fulfillment without impact.

Agreed on security analyst. I'll try the minimal effort approach to finishing this quarter up. Maybe it'll make cranking through the remaining 2 years easier so I won't need a break.


Below is my CBA on staying in school vs heading out, if anyone sees any blind spots, please point them out.
CBA on School:
Staying in School:
Benefits:
*social status
*More opps?
*Social learning environment
*Family pride

Costs:
*Depression
*Anxiety
*Stress
*$cost
*Feel wasting time/life
*Health
*Distracts from putting in time towards learning where want to contribute

[slowtraveler]

I'll take the silence as a hint that my analysis is okay.

As an update, Brute's method is working surprisingly well for me. Study/school 3 days a week and forget about it the rest of the time. I'm pretty sure I passed the last exam and crushed it on the last homework as well.

[BRUTE]

de nada

[The Old Man]

You are an 'N', so you are a big-picture person. Your writings also suggest this description.

You have an AS in Biology, near to an AS in Computer Science, plus some coursework in Economics/Business. The real question is what you liked about BIO, CS, and ECON. You should be able to find an employer/job where you would be able to combine all your interests.

I would not suggest IT because that field seems to conflict with your big-picture thinking orientation. You should pursue a field where CS plays a supporting role, but not a dominant role. If you liked BIO then that should be part of the solution. Are you a technical person or do you like solving business problems (marketing, finance, strategy, etc.)?

I would suggest finishing your AS in Computer Science. I would also suggest pursuing a BS in Economics which should include some courses in accounting and business law. I would suggest pursuing some school clubs/activities where you could demonstrate your interest in either BIO, CS, or ECON. Finally, you will need an internship as that is the gateway to employment.

An example of a merger between BIO and CS is Computational Biology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_biology). This would be highly technical, but you could always address the business aspects. You could seek a business position in companies that operate in this space. I would go have a discussion with your school's career counselor and, if possible, any professors that you may know.

Good luck!

[slowtraveler]

Thanks Snoopy-
The real question is what you liked about BIO, CS, and ECON.
I like seeing how systems interact. Bio and Econ have been directly relevant to fields of interest to me (gardening and personal finance/business.) CS was more since I enjoy some degree of logic and it pays well.

I've applied for the VITA program to help others with their taxes and the redwoods volunteer program so I can try out applying finance and nature conservation into real life to see how much I enjoy them. I have some pretty open opportunities to get into accounting if I end up enjoying tax work.

As a second update on Brute's advice-
I got a D on one assignment, teacher will let me make it up and I have some good source code to modify for it.
An A on 2 others, a B on my midterm, and have a group project just about done with a presentation tomorrow. Final is in a week and I'm on track for a high B.

[TheRedHare]

@Felipe

I get how you feel man. I was studying accounting just because someone told me to do it. I made decent grades in it, but once I did my internship I realized that I did not want to do that at all. After I finished the internship I dropped my accounting pathway as a business major and instead decided to graduate a semester earlier with a regular business degree. Fortunetly I managed to pick up a low level IT job which I start on in January that I'm looking forward to. Personally, I feel like you've got to be out in the real world in order to fully understand what you like and what you don't like.

Speaking in terms of MBTI as an INFJ, accounting was the furthest thing away from what I should be doing, same goes for IT. But I honestly find that stuff appealing even though I'm really good with people and helping them out with their emotions and what not.

As Brute said earlier, I think you should just push through as fast and painless as possible. Also, look at your work at school as a chance for you to figure out smaller problems and a chance for you to strengthen your skill set. Try not to think about how pointless it may all seem, because I can tell you a lot of people think the same way about not only their college major, but even there own jobs. If anything you should be proud of the fact you're realizing this at your age. I bet most people don't think about how "pointless" it may all seem. As Jacob said, "you are not your job"