Why should I challenge myself academically?

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
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TopHatFox
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Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by TopHatFox »

My academic adviser mentioned that I should challenge myself academically and of course I (perhaps foolishly) retorted that my time can be spent challenging myself in other ways, such as attaining a post-grad job, working campus jobs, being an active part of on-campus organizations, self-educating, gaining new skills, etc.

Convince me, why should I challenge myself academically -- and what does that even mean? Does it mean signing up for more classes that require sets of 10+ page papers? Or signing up for calculus classes where I can cry myself to sleep after every class? Or signing up for classes that take up a large sect of my time in the name of endurance? I don't get it. Maybe the only reason to do so would be to impress stupid grad schools or employers that I'm worth enrolling/paying, but I think I can already do that in other ways (internships, etc.).

For context, I'm a fourth-year geology major (done) currently enrolled to take:

1. 100-level Theater:The Craft of Speaking (for voice improvement/speech-giving)
2. 200-level Spanish: Hispanic Literature (In-Spanish so I can solidify my Spanish writing abilities)
3. 200-level Sociology: Footprints on the Earth (Speaks on the sociological context of environmentalism so I can understand Humans + CC)
4. 300-level American Studies: Gender, Migration, Power (Speaks on migration so I can understand my own place as a migrant)

BRUTE
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by BRUTE »

are there any useful courses Olaz could pick instead? something that would build valuable skills maybe?

jacob
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by jacob »

Why should anyone climb Mt Everest? Because it's there!

In my time (late 1990s), there were two strategies when it came to picking classes.

*) Take the hardest and most engaging classes available so that you might test yourself and measure your engagement and intellectual capacity. You'd learn your personal limits against an absolute standard and learn more than otherwise possible.

*) Play the system and figure out where the highest ROI was in terms of GPA/effort. You'd get good grades and advance your career farther than otherwise possible.

Different students focused on different aspects of those two choices. In hindsight, I notice that the politically savvy tended towards #2 and proceeded to have nice and normal and "impressive" careers but never really did much original in their lives (for the past 10-20 years since graduating anyway). Nobody will remember them after 50 years and currently they aren't influencing many people outside a small circle of 5-10 specialists/subordinates. They did get a good salary/career track though. Conversely, the #1 group are mostly career failures but have lead "interesting lives", sometimes influencing a lot more people, other times just making a salary.

Point being: You're at a point where you don't have to care about providing value to society. What are you going to do with that time?
1) Collect paper credentials (GPA) in order to become a good salaryman (executive/academic)?
2) Connect with people in order to become a good businessman or, uh, innovator/startup-man?
3) Connect with yourself in order to learn as much as possible?

IlliniDave
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by IlliniDave »

Arguably, if you can't answer the question yourself, then maybe you shouldn't. The $64,000 question you need to answer is why are you going to school to begin with?

jacob
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by jacob »

@iDave - Unfortunately, the 64k question is best answered in retrospect after many years. A lot of people, including me, went simply because it was the thing to do. "You don't know what you don't know until you know it."

Scott 2
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by Scott 2 »

I opted to do the bare minimum to meet graduation requirements. I don't regret it for a second.

If your major is satisfied, can you graduate early?

IlliniDave
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by IlliniDave »

jacob wrote:@iDave - Unfortunately, the 64k question is best answered in retrospect after many years. A lot of people, including me, went simply because it was the thing to do. "You don't know what you don't know until you know it."
That's probably true, but we have to wrestle with many such questions in life without the benefit of hindsight or additional experience-derived wisdom. In my case, it never really occurred to me to even ask myself the $64K question at the time. As with you, it was simply the thing to do for people of my age and demographic. In hindsight, I suspect it would have helped me if I'd have thought about back then, which is why I mentioned it.

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GandK
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by GandK »

Scott is right.

If you need more classes, then go find a hiring manager at a geology or oil firm and ask them what, if anything, would be likely to impress them under these circumstances.

Dragline
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by Dragline »

I got another major. But that had been planned from when I picked the first one.

There isn't any right answer to this question and it probably actually won't matter that much in the long run.

I think your professor/advisor might have been speaking from the perspective of someone who planned to go to grad school and was looking to get ahead in something.

Of the things you picked, the first one probably has the most value because it teaches a general skill and I assume you will be learning by doing. The second is the second most valuable to the extent you are actually writing. The others just look like stuff you could read about on your own.

OTCW
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by OTCW »

Maybe pick something you are not naturally good at? Some of my best classes were the ones that made me think in ways I wasn't used to. Probably just another way of saying go for something that will teach you problem solving skills.

TopHatFox
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by TopHatFox »

Scott 2 wrote:I opted to do the bare minimum to meet graduation requirements. I don't regret it for a second.

If your major is satisfied, can you graduate early?
Sadly not, otherwise I would. My current plan is simply to yup, do the bare minimum (which for me means earning B+'s or A's in relatively easy but very-interesting-to-me classes).

JamesR
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by JamesR »

The value of a degree has dropped massively because
A) everyone is getting degrees nowadays
B) there's a lot of degrees that don't help much with getting a high paying job

There's a lot of weird new-fangled made up degrees in the last 10 years that probably won't help much either. The increased variety of degrees are mainly for schools to fool suckers^H^H^H^H^H^Htudents to fork over money.

More classical degrees like "Physics" or "[Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical/Computer] Engineering" still have a lot of value. Not sure what other degrees are as powerful as those? A science/math/economics degree might be ok too? Some degrees could be powerful with the right minors/specializations - to prove that you didn't bullshit your way through school & actually took the degree seriously & filled in the weak spots of the degree.

BTW, Google *loves* engineers with MBAs. Two of my engineering friends went back to school recently for an MBA, and both are now working at Google. Another friend of mine is also working at Google, in the core team that deals with the search algorithm, has a PhD, worked as a postdoc in quantum math. I haven't asked but I suspect the MBA ones are probably making $150-200k and the PHd is probably making $200-250k

Scott 2
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by Scott 2 »

As long as you must, taking classes that actually interest you strikes me as a mature approach. Finding another opportunity, at that caliber university, is unlikely later in life. The cost is really hard to justify.

I think it's more accurate to say the type of engineer Google loves is likely to earn an MBA. If you're not wired for that life, a couple diplomas isn't changing it.

Tyler9000
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by Tyler9000 »

Scott 2 wrote:I think it's more accurate to say the type of engineer Google loves is likely to earn an MBA.
Bingo. I know a guy who worked on the original code that Google acquired to create Google Maps. He was subsequently turned down for a job in the Google Maps group because the MBA manager half his age was fixated on his knowledge (or lack thereof) of modern engineering jargon. Advanced degrees are often closed systems that don't get out much.

@Olaz-- I think your advisor is just politely noting that it looks like you're coasting on your classes. No matter what you decide to study, make sure you're getting the most value for your time and money. I know you have an interest in finance -- maybe take some finance or statistics classes? They will help you anywhere you go and still track your personal goals.

enigmaT120
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by enigmaT120 »

I don't have an answer to your question, but what do you have against calculus?

FBeyer
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by FBeyer »

I have a distinct feeling that European academia is vastly different from the US. Maybe I was just lucky, maybe I was a born ass kisser ;)

Zoal should challenge himself academically so that laoz can grow mentally. Grow your web of knowledge. No challenge means no growth. You might as well spend the time going somewhere.

Lucky C
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by Lucky C »

You should challenge yourself academically to increase your odds of more work opportunities / wider variety of work opportunities in the future. You want more opportunities to increase the odds that you will find a good fit to increase happiness while at that job, rather than being stuck somewhere that was your only choice. Similarly you want to challenge yourself while playing the career game because that will lead to faster XP gains, higher respect, and more interesting opportunities in the future with potentially more freedom (not having the boss breathing down your neck because you always do the bare minimum or sometimes slack off). Ultimately in playing the career game you want to end up making the rules, not following them. Creating projects, directing programs, running your own business. You will have a career of your own design rather than one that's handed to you for your minimal effort, and you will be happier (more satisfied). See "So Good They Can't Ignore You" by Newport.

You should focus on academic challenges (as opposed to hobby challenges) now because you have a limited time in college to gain relevant XP before entering the workforce / starting the career game and you are competing with others. That doesn't mean you should focus 100% on academic challenges, since an interesting hobby can be useful in interviews too, but doing the bare minimum academically could prevent you from getting a job somewhere that could optimize your satisfaction while in career mode. An employer may question why you decided you didn't need to learn anything else relevant to your major in your final year after you got the bare minimum done. Good job getting done your major's requirements early, but how will that translate to work ethic? Are you just going to do your assigned tasks as fast as you can the first half of the day and then spend the rest of the day killing time on the internet because you did your work good enough to keep your job?

Finally, once you're in the career game, somewhere you're satisfied that doesn't make you work long hours, you should have plenty of time on nights and weekends to work on your other skills and interests.

Of course there are good counter-arguments to all this, but you didn't ask for those.

futureminifatcat
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Re: Why should I challenge myself academically?

Post by futureminifatcat »

From a consumer perspective, you might find it worthwhile to take courses that are "challenging" in the sense that the topics are much easier to learn with a good, experienced professor and/or in a live forum. If you take courses that you could easily self-study instead, then you receive only minimal value for your college tuition (other than the usual "get the rubber stamp that employers want" value).

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