The corporate game/people gaming corporate

[BRUTE]

The thought of just renting out rooms in my house and going camping, traveling, having fun for a while is enticing. Just imagining it makes me feel alive a little again.

brute sees SimpleLife has already solved his own problem and is simply looking for permission. brute hereby gives SimpleLife permission to rent out his house, move into his car, bring the girl or dump her, and work while traveling from the road. brute also recommends a myfi.

[SimpleLife]

The thought of just renting out rooms in my house and going camping, traveling, having fun for a while is enticing. Just imagining it makes me feel alive a little again.

brute sees SimpleLife has already solved his own problem and is simply looking for permission. brute hereby gives SimpleLife permission to rent out his house, move into his car, bring the girl or dump her, and work while traveling from the road. brute also recommends a myfi.

Actually I wasn't looking for permission to do that, just responding to a potential plan to get away from money making obsession in response to another post.

The OP is about people gaming the corporate system. Many do it. It seems it's more acceptable on some forums than others. At the end of the day, work for me is about building wealth. I add value, tons of it, and that has been documented and rewarded with promotions and high pay. But others who do almost nothing also make a lot of money. Consider it switching gears into a "retirement job".

[George the original one]

If you're chained to a job just to make more money when you no longer need more money, then you're still a slave even if you've worked out a way to minimax the pain/benefits.

[Lucky C]

Eventually you won't have to work at all. But why not keep working when you don't care. Even if you get fired, why hide in shame at home when you can squeeze out another 125K in savings in 2 years at another job that you will inevitably get?

Because:
- My life is finite.
- I want to be able to not have a supervisor ever again.
- After my current career, I will probably find some way to make additional income or otherwise grow what I have saved anyway. If I don't, and want to make more money again, I can change my mind and go back to work.
- Job openings are finite, and if I don't want or need the job, I would rather let someone else have it.
- Even if, in previous jobs, someone has added more value than they have gotten back in pay, that doesn't mean it is fair for them to take more pay than the value they add in their next role.
- Even if others deliberately take more from their employers than the value they provide, doesn't mean it is fair for you to do the same. If the intent is for you to eventually stop working there, the proper thing to do is to resign with a fair amount of notice, rather than waste resources until you're canned.
- A day goes by much faster in a more demanding job, and it is likely more intrinsically rewarding. Stress management is a skill that, once acquired, can greatly diminish the preference to have a lazy job. If I went back to my previous low-key job, I would actively seek out a full workload rather than just do the minimum given to me.
- I would be very bored spending most of the day, every day, just sitting at a desk consuming Internet content. Been there, done that, blech.
- There are other things in this world that can give me a bigger thrill than watching some numbers go up when I check my accounts.

I've worked with major underperformers in the past, who aren't pulling their weight and aren't getting disciplined. Meanwhile you have a lot on your plate and it never ends. It's a difficult situation, but becoming another underperformer is not a good solution in my experience.

[SimpleLife]

How is it not a good solution? Solution to what? There is no problem. The point is to add more money even if you don't need it now. That 4% SWR assumes a 30 year time span and no major health issues, law suits or criminal trials. A lot can go wrong in 30-50 years of retirement...

[BRUTE]

brute doesn't really get the concept of this "slacker work"

- humans still have to spend 40h/wk in the office
- humans still have to do/pretend to do what boss tells them
- humans receive similar/same amount of money

is it really that much more convenient to spend 40h slacking off at work, wally style? brute can't even imagine what he would do. brute can only browse 4chan for so long.

[Toska2]

I believe some are productive in other aspects of their lives at their job. I've seen some derive pleasure from irritating coworkers. I recall a forum member seeing how often he could high five other people, innocent amusement.

[Lucky C]

Yep. So why work so hard? I too am tired of having everyones problems dumped on me.

How is it not a good solution? Solution to what? There is no problem.

My comment at the end of my post was regarding the problem you stated in that first quote, that you are tired of others' problems being dumped on you. My view is that deliberate underperformance is not a good solution to whatever workplace problems (frustration, stress, feelings of unfairness) may come from being around others who you feel are underperforming. It is not a good solution in my experience because it conflicts with my morals and work ethic. YMMV.

[FBeyer]

I mean, given the choice to get paid 100K a year to surf the web and do some work vs sit at home and get paid nothing to surf, I know which one I'd pick...

Dude, you are too obsessed with making a pile that you're not looking into having a life outside work!

Seeing you use the word 'dude' causes me almost as much cognitive dissonance as reading one of BRUTE's posts when he gets all technical and insightful.
It's funny how we perceive people through text based communication...

[FBeyer]

... brute can only browse 4chan for so long.

I KNEW IT!!! I F******* KNEW IT!!!

[cbroenning]

I really don't see the benefit in this "gaming corportate" strategy, unless you are stuck or can't find anything better to do.

Not giving a f... just alienates you from your colleagues and the tasks, which - in my view - drastically reduces overall pleasure from working. Quit or find something else.

[C40]

This desire really sprang on me after watching the RV and Sailing channels on youtube. Especially SV Delos sailing.

If you haven't yet, check out "Sailing La Vagabond". Man, I love their videos (muc much more than Devos)

[cmonkey]

brute doesn't really get the concept of this "slacker work"

- humans still have to spend 40h/wk in the office
- humans still have to do/pretend to do what boss tells them
- humans receive similar/same amount of money

is it really that much more convenient to spend 40h slacking off at work, wally style? brute can't even imagine what he would do. brute can only browse 4chan for so long.

For me it is about mental exhaustion. When I am "on" for 8 hours at work, my personal life suffers tremendously. If I am "on" for just a few work hours while pretending to be on for the rest I have a lot more mental energy in the evenings and so can accomplish more with my non-work time.

[George the original one]

Why shouldn't workers set expectations when the boss' expectations are not sustainable? It takes longer to train a new employee to the productive level than the lost productivity of lowered expectations.

[slog]

Without searching and reading through any discussions on the forums, where do ERE seekers fit on this scale? The closest is the Loser group but being as we aren't exactly economic Losers it begs for a new category. Perhaps an extension of the Sociopath group since we play the game but in a different way.

I have only read the first section so maybe its discussed later on.

The article was fascinating! I read the series between last night and this morning, the whole time with the lens questioning where ERE fits. His language provides a framework to answer the question when looking for it. My theory is that most ERE successes and pursuers are in the loser category with possible affinity for sociopath and almost no affinity for clueless. What makes ERE different from other losers is intellectual understanding of the sociopath world. What still makes us losers is the lack of visceral transformation that allows a sociopath to win the sociopath game. This comes from part six of the article when he's describing how a sociopath peaks:

This moment is visceral, not intellectual. It is again possible to get to a merely intellectual appreciation of the “this is all there is” raw physicality of the human condition. That is not the same thing.

I think the desire to forge a new category would arise from two places. One is lacking appreciation that the author is not using "loser" as a summation of an individual, it only describes a function in social hierarchies. The second is a very loser like behavior in that the loser is assigning a great negative emotional value to the term that is outweighing the value of understanding the social hierarchy. Another quote from part 6 that illuminates this:

But by their very nature, emotions overweight social behavior over material substance. Having a $100 bill thrown contemptuously at you hurts. Being politely handed $10 feels good. The Loser mind, predictably, sees the first act as a slight and seeks revenge, and the second act as nice and seeks to repay it.

There's a scholarly paper that Jacob has cited about multiplayer games and the four main personalities of players. I believe he also has described himself and ERE in general as aligned with the "Explorer". I also identify with the explorer and recently had an ah-ha moment of confirmation when I retroactively evaluated my behavior of downloading the Overwatch beta and proceeding to experiment with the entire cast of characters in the training area rather than playing the game.

I see a direct link between an Explorer approach and the loser of the Gervais Principle. Even choosing to not play the game by rejecting consumerism and implementing robust philosophies like stoicism, the best a loser-explorer can hope to do is insulate themselves from the effect of sociopaths. By not engaging in the creation of theaters for other losers and the clueless, a loser-explorer is still always responding to a world that the sociopaths are governing. It's not really a matter of who has the best life. By destroying their own theaters of happiness, highly successful sociopaths are even one of the incarnations of individuals an ERE aware loser would pity. Nothing brings them happiness so they just work and play the games of sociopaths, collecting money they will never need and never developing many of the renaissance strengths these forums praise.

This evaluation is probably too warped by my own identification with ERE principles. But for me it is not important to name myself as something other than a loser. Instead, I hope to let a little of my inner sociopath out of the bottle. Accept the label loser without offense or insecurity and figure out how this understanding can provide me with power in that top tier marketplace, even though I expect to never spend much time there.

[wood]

slog, I really like your post. I reasonate with the Gervais Principle in the same way. I occasionally return to this article series and always pick up on something new I had not noticed before.

I belong to the Losers table, and I slack off at work. Here's what I spend my non-working hours on between 9 and 5, in order of time spent:
- writing a book
- working on a future potential blog/webpage
- exploring forums, reading articles, trying to get smarter, solve the puzzle of life
- play with my excel sheets and follow up my real estate business on the side
- follow up other small projects, hobbies or otherwise stuff that helps my ERE
- play games and mess with colleagues
- stay in touch with friends and family
- documenting and creating statistics that show my production is top notch among our group

Of course there are days I play games all day long. But on average, very little time is spent unproductively. My unproductive days usually occur when physically and mentally fatigued, and they make me happy. I could have made a bigger work effort, but the increased effort doesn't match up with the expected increase in salary/promotion/joy of working. I enjoy being productive. I do not enjoy work.

[EdithKeeler]

It’s funny; I found myself thinking about this thread today while at work.

I used to be a total go-getting--identifying problems, proposing solutions to problems kind of a person. I always worried when I wasn’t busy enough, was concerned about my future promotions, etc. etc. My career went OK--I made decent money, made some advancements, but it became clear I wasn’t exactly headed for the corner office. But I kept slogging away--60 hour weeks, week after week after week, because That’s What You’re Supposed To Do. But it took a substantial toll on my physical and mental health, and I was NOT happy.

Then I took a step off the management track due to the health problems, my mother’s health problems, the fact that I was starting to have anxiety attacks on my way to work because my boss was INSANE, etc. I rented my house to a tenant, took a lower-key, non-management position in the “backwater” office where I was promoted out of, and moved back to the closest thing I have to a “home town.”

The weird thing is, after a period of adjustment where I had to get used to not being on the fast track, I found I didn’t mind it. I worked my 8-5 and went home. Sometimes I spent some time surfing the internet, I’ve written more than one short story at work…. but my work got done. I even took some industry exams, which I studied for at work, because it was “work related,” and I didn’t have anything else to do. (Each one I passed, I got a bonus, too).

Here’s the thing: after 4 years of essentially being a slacker (at least by my definition, compared to how I used to be), I was nominated for a BIG award at work. Don’t know yet if I’ll win--I hope I do, but am not counting on it. It’s a yearly thing, company wide, and after 12 years with the company, this is the first time I got nominated.

It wasn’t those crazy hours I worked, or all the brain-wracking I did trying to find creative solutions, or running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to figure things out or handle the latest crisis. Turns out it’s (apparently) getting good solid work done, having a little free time to help other people out when they need it, and being the person your boss can count on when she needs you. I can’t believe that my net surfing and cell-phone checking has gone unnoticed… I’m also late to work pretty much every day…. But I guess I bring other stuff to the table. Someone commented to me the other day that getting nominated for this award will get me a promotion offer, and it might. But I’m surprised to find myself not eager to step back onto that management track.

I do consider myself a slacker now and I certainly never used to. I think I’ve always been one and just didn’t realize it or let my true self come out.

[Dragline]

Here’s the thing: after 4 years of essentially being a slacker (at least by my definition, compared to how I used to be), I was nominated for a BIG award at work. Don’t know yet if I’ll win--I hope I do, but am not counting on it. It’s a yearly thing, company wide, and after 12 years with the company, this is the first time I got nominated.

It wasn’t those crazy hours I worked, or all the brain-wracking I did trying to find creative solutions, or running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to figure things out or handle the latest crisis. Turns out it’s (apparently) getting good solid work done, having a little free time to help other people out when they need it, and being the person your boss can count on when she needs you. I can’t believe that my net surfing and cell-phone checking has gone unnoticed… I’m also late to work pretty much every day…. But I guess I bring other stuff to the table. Someone commented to me the other day that getting nominated for this award will get me a promotion offer, and it might. But I’m surprised to find myself not eager to step back onto that management track.

I do consider myself a slacker now and I certainly never used to. I think I’ve always been one and just didn’t realize it or let my true self come out.

Bravo! I think work environments in large organizations are often more negotiable than people think, especially if you are there a long time -- and just having a reputation for being steady, pleasant and reliable can go a long way. But you do have to put aside any visions of grandeur.

[BlueNote]

I have found that having walk away money (fuck you money or whatever you want to call it) has been seriously positive for my career.

I give very few shits for office politics and increasingly just call people out on it.

You know this guy/gal?:



Well that's the typical middle manager BS I get a lot from my employer and I don't stand for it.

I do have a strong work ethic, possibly irrationally strong, so I have to find ways to tame it. Personally that means treating my employment as a series of project proposals. I accept the interesting ones and reject/duff on the uninteresting. I'll put in about 5% of my total effort on stuff I don't like, just enough to keep the train on the tracks and devote the rest of my time to interesting areas. Sometimes the TPS report train derails, meetings are held and work ends up being re-allocated so it's no biggie. If my employer doesn't like it they can fire me. However they seem to just adapt by promoting me and moving me into large budget corporate project work. Without FU money I would have probably toiled and did whatever was asked and ended up a typical worker bee, misery for me.

[SimpleLife]

This desire really sprang on me after watching the RV and Sailing channels on youtube. Especially SV Delos sailing.

If you haven't yet, check out "Sailing La Vagabond". Man, I love their videos (muc much more than Devos)

I've watched a few of their episodes. I can't relate to.it as much as sv delos, plus their show is a little slower to me. Just them, were as sv delos has rotating passengers.

You might check out Justin Credible on there, he has a similar living setup as you. I do think he bought an RV now though.