Should I quit now, or keep working?

[C40]

Quick background on my situation:

• * My spending ranges from $12k per year to $23k
  * My net worth is just about to hit $500k, which is my current retirement target
  * I've just finished building the inside of a cargo van like an RV to live in while I travel around the US and go on adventures
  * I'm on the verge of selling my house. Closing is this coming Tuesday (5/31)

Recently, I’ve been planning to quit as soon as my house sells in a few days – to send my boss a resignation letter immediately after walking out of closing. I’m having some second thoughts. Some of it is because of money. I think more of it is because of the work situation described further below.

MONEY

I’m about to hit my current retirement target net worth ($500k)

Here are the SWRs needed for different levels of spending


My actual spending would likely vary between all those categories depending on my living arrangement at the time and whether I make any large purchases that year.

If I continue working, here is how I’d expect my net worth to grow:


In some ways, the extra money would be nice. I wouldn’t have to challenge myself to earn more (I could just challenge myself in other ways, and I could still challenge myself to earn more if I want to). I could buy cool things more often, or a larger/nicer house or property.





WORK SITUATION

I travel a lot for work. While I lived in the house, my work schedule looked like this:

One week per month – home the full week and working at the office
3 weeks per month – go to a one factory each week. Travel on Monday. Work in the factory Tuesday-Thursday. Travel back home Thursday night or Friday morning. No more work after that.

So I basically get 3+ day weekends 3 weeks per month, without using any vacation time.

Now that my house is sold, I could travel in the van and still work. My work schedule would be similar to the above, except I would travel every week, since I won’t keep living in the van in St Louis, so I'd have to travel back to St Louis for that office week each month. What I would do is spend chunks of time (maybe a month or so) using one city as a home base. Take Knoxville for example. There is a national forest within an hour of the city. There are a number of other cities like this – that have a decent airport and a National Forest within 30-60 minutes. My weekly schedule would look like this:

Monday morning – leave camp and drive to the airport. Fly to “work city”
Tuesday – Thursday – Work at factory in “Work city”
Friday morning – Take first flight back to Knoxville. Drive out to the NF to camp/adventure for the weekend.

(Sometimes I would fly back on Thursday night instead of Friday morning.)

After I’ve been in Knoxville for a month or so, I may decide I want to go somewhere new, and then maybe one Friday I’d drive to Charlottesville or Louisville, or wherever else that’s a reasonable distance away, and continue the same work pattern from that home base.

This seems like it could be a nice arrangement. I’d still be working and making good money, but I’d get to spend a pretty good chunk of time out doing the kind of stuff I want to while living in a van.

I think the main drawbacks of doing this would be:
1 – I want to just quit right now. Not because work is so bad, but more because I want to stop spending my time on it.
2 – I expect I will eventually get to the point where I don’t want to live in a van anymore (maybe you could even call it burn out). If I’m also working during that time, might I get to burn out in the same calendar duration as I would while full-timing? If so, would I have wasted some of that van living window in locations that are less than spectacular?


I spoke with my Mom about it tonight and she recommended I keep working for a while to see how I like living in the van while working. I could still quit whenever I decide.

I’m probably still leaning about 60% towards quitting right now. Finishing the van and selling the house is a big milestone for me – a turning of the page in my life of sorts. I feel like I might as well make the change all the way and also quit. I don’t know if I really feel like entering an in-between phase. On the other hand, if I do keep working to test out that in-between phase, maybe I’ll like it so much better than hanging around living in St Louis in the house that I’ll be really happy to keep doing that for a while. I don’t really know. I also don’t know how long of doing the in-between phase it would really take me to know how I feel about it.

I think it's pretty unlikely that I would have a high amount of regret for quitting now. I guess what could happen is I would think "oh, it wouldn't be so bad to be going to work for a few days this week.

Another option would be to try to get one of the following to happen:

• * Switch to part time work. Just work about 2 weeks per month.
  * Agree with my boss to keep working the rest of the year, but to have one less work day per week (which would mean my factory visits are 2 days per week instead of 3) - and maybe he would keep paying me the same amount in order to get me to stay on until the end of the year. (Our goals for what I work on are bigger and get more attention this year than any of the last 5+ years)
  * Take a 2-3 month sabbatical. Then go back to work (and maybe the sabbatical would help me to decide one way or another - and maybe I quit right after the sabbatical is over)
  * They give me a significant raise or bonus to keep working, or to keep working until the end of this year

Those are all desirable options - I would prefer them strongly over just continuing to work as is. I think the most likely way for any of them to happen is to give a resignation letter. I suppose I could ask for them, get the likely "no" then give the resignation letter, and that way they would already know that I desire one or some of the options above.




WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

[sky]

quit

[bryan]

I would give the work while in van a go. Maybe you can deduct mileage or get reimbursed. Maybe you can work out a slightly better schedule that is more van friendly.

Have you done calculations for quit versus keep working for the rest of the year? Healthcare, taxes, etc? (I see you have about $48k more by finishing the year, ~10% of NW). Maybe quit at the perfect time, e.g. after bonus or before you hit a higher marginal tax bracket or can't qualify for cheap healthcare insurance. Or some other factor.

Maybe keep that $48k in cash, waiting for the market to drop or use as next two years of spending.

Worst case you still quit whenever?

Summer is starting. Wonder if the locations you would be visiting for work are too hot most of the day into the evening to be in the van (of course the goal wouldn't be too be in the van that much, but some days you may want to)?

[C40]

(I would be flying to work locations and renting a car there. They are too far apart to drive the van to.)

The numbers I used for the net worth growth table are very quick estimations. My healthcare cost for the rest of this year would be ~$225/mo for insurance. The ideal, tax and everything wise would probably be quitting in March or in the middle of April when we get our bonus. Our max 401k contribution % is 25% so I can't front load that.

[Ego]

Option 1: Continue to work while living in the van.
Option 2: Quit and live in the van while doing what?

It sounds like you've got a fairly ideal work situation. What will you be able to do after quitting that you cannot do while working?

[bryan]

One year seems like a long time. In fact, I'll probably be looking at the same decision as you at that point, though if I took my own advice I would keep working, though I don't want to

[C40]

What will you be able to do after quitting that you cannot do while working?

Mainly, I could go to better places, I could go at my own speed, and I would not have to stick close to airports or manage my work schedule. I would have complete control over my time and location, rather than only partial. I'd have much more complete freedom. If I keep working, it may feel a bit like a dog tied outside on a long rope. He can move around quite a bit, but can't venture out to areas that he may really want to.

If I'm still working, I could only stay in one camping location for a few days. I'd have to shuttle back and forth to the airport each week which will put more wear and tear on the van I just spent a long time converting. If I quit entirely, I could spend two weeks in one spot and really take it in, get deep into hobbies, reading, learning, exploring the area, etc. I could meander through regions at my own pace and not have to stay close to airports or manage the work schedule. I could jump fully into some income generating hobbies and see how those go (whether I like them, what the money is like).

And yes, as far as working goes, that work situation would be ideal in a lot of ways. That's why it's feeling hard to pass up right now. But the complete freedom I'd get with quitting has a very strong pull.

[C40]

One year seems like a long time. In fact, I'll probably be looking at the same decision as you at that point, though if I took my own advice I would keep working, though I don't want to

One year can feel like a long time. But I wouldn't plan for a specific duration (unless I make an agreement with my employer). I'd just try it out and if I feel like quitting after one month, I would quit.

[bryan]

Well, I really like your idea of traveling to find a place to settle down into eventually. I would just be concerned about being able to buy the land/house with the amount you have saved. More than likely you would find a way to make money while living there while also getting into the local community. Better to start the search now, find it, and start planting roots instead of slaving away in your young years without building any social capital.

[ether]

I would quit, see if you enjoy not working!
If after a year you are unhappy, you can probably get a job anywhere since you are so mobile!

[mfi]

Keep working for now. You don't seem to hate your job and you already have the flexibility to do most of what you are planning to do after you quit.

You mentioned that extra money would be nice. Paychecks + saving skills + Benford's law will double your net worth much faster than the short time it took you to get to this point.

I was faced with a similar dilemma 8 years ago and I chose to quit at 37 and did not plan to work again. I traveled and had a lot of control over my time, but my sense of happiness and well-being did not change substantially. As I get older, I begin to find routine and structure liberating. I set up a LLC and did some consulting. I turned down many job offers and I kept "office hours" at the library. Two months ago out of the blue I was offered my dream job at my dream location. I accepted and I could not be happier with how things unfolded.

Based on your journal, I'm pretty sure you'll be just fine regardless of which path you decide to take. Good luck!

[vexed87]

The day I find myself thinking there is something I would rather be doing than work is the day I would quit if I was FI!

I understand the anxiety though. Could you not take a >14 day break from work to determine how you find the slower pace of being unemployed, I find it takes a couple of weeks of doig nothing to truly decompress, so by the end of week 2 you will know whether or not you need your work more than you think.

The alternative is to find part time work that you also enjoy. You're no longer doing it for the money!

[7Wannabe5]

The question itself reflects a constructed dichotomy that is too far out from Zone 00 (your skin.) You are in your late 30s or early 40s, right? What you primarily need to concern yourself with moving forward will be something like finding the best balance between maintaining high testosterone levels while reducing cortisol and bad androgen levels. This is a very individualized process, so you need to establish your own best practices. For instance, are you the sort of person who would be inclined towards frequently leaning on the horn and shouting "What the f*ck!?" as you drove through traffic on your airport van shuttle? Would the feeling you had after this experience then cause you to want to consume an alcoholic beverage? Or vice-versa? Under what conditions do you sleep best? How will you maintain those conditions? What is your diet, and how will you maintain it ? What is your exercise routine, and how will you maintain it? How will you make contract for a healthy-for-you level of sexual activity? If you choose not to work in realm of externally organized structure and hierarchy, what are your plans for purposeful activity that will support your hormone levels through regular achievement of mastery and/or assuming position of leadership? IOW, how will you best achieve balanced position somewhere up and above the dial that will take you from practice or lifestyle that causes burn-out, short or long-term destructive level of stress vs. practice of lifestyle that lends itself towards routine (inclusive of some forms of paid employment-such as paper-shuffling) that leads to dusty, depressive passivity?

Since I am a female who is self-aware in her feminine energy and living in a culture that both promotes and destroys masculine energy, I can get by (stay healthy) with a practice that includes just enough "striving" to keep my little pilot light on, and otherwise make/maintain my "living" as a comfort woman, because sometimes I am valued simply because I can model relaxation. I am surrounded by men, and other women, who have too much money and not enough ???something??? that money simply can't buy. I would say that this ???something??? is, at least, 50% just a matter of perspective, and the dichotomy inherent in your question begs some further change of perspective. IOW, any thought along the lines of "First, I will do this and this and that until this and this and that, and then I will/can relax/retire forever." is not good or right, because the healthy process or practice is cyclical, not linear or pyramid-shaped, and you are likely inherently somebody for whom the best cyclical practice is something like 35/65 or 51/49, perhaps directly related to the ratio of your ring finger to your index finger, with lack of best practice revealed in current (or likely to be future) waist-to-height/hip/shoulder ratios.

I hope this made some kind of sense-lol?

[jennypenny]

If I'm reading your numbers right, working for 1 more year would increase your financial safety net by 20%. That seems like a pretty good ROI.

[BRUTE]

brute would try the sabbatical for 1-3 months. that'll show C40 if he likes living in the van, and how he likes not working. it's also relatively normal for many humans to take sabbaticals, so it's a small step.

[sky]

Getting up in the morning and deciding what you are going to do today is worth a lot. It is much better than waking up and being committed to doing something that you may not really want to do.

You might get tired of living in the van. It sucks when it is hot out. The usual response is to move somewhere higher in elevation to cooler weather. If you are not able to move to cooler weather, better have an electric connection and an air conditioner. Or park it and stay in a library or other place where it is air conditioned during the heat of the day.

[C40]

I do feel like the reasonable thing to do is to keep working and see how I like it. When I was previously thinking about continuing work while living in the van, I was thinking about 'home basing' in cities in the eastern half of the US because flights to the cities where I work would be faster and cheaper. But the western US is much better for what I want to do. So today I looked at cities in the west and checked what the flights were like going to my work cities (they'll take significantly longer), and I checked distances from those airports to national forest/parks/etc. The prospects as far as outdoor areas are much, much, much better. There are a variety of cities that would probably work well (off memory: Denver, Boise, Spokane, Portland, San Fransisco, Sacramento, Los Angeles, +probably San Diego, Vegas, Phoenix, Albuquerque)

The main thing I would not like about continuing to work is having to go back and forth from the airport every week. The other bad thing is that my travel days would get much longer. Right now, it only takes me half the day to get to a work city, and I don't do any other work that day other than traveling. If/when I go out west, it will take full days, and I will loose much of my current wonderful work schedule and normal 3+ day weekends.

So, what I would really like is to work just 2 weeks per month. That would give me a 2-week stretch to go out and explore and relax in the way that I'd like to, and then I'd work for the other 2 weeks. My job is one where this is possible. I currently support 5 factories. I could start supporting just 3 factories and only go back for the St Louis office week every other month instead of every month. That would put me at about 2 weeks of work per month. My schedule could look like this:



I'm starting another thread to ask for advice on how to ask for and get this kind of arrangement with my employer. It's here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7786

[Matty]

Sounds like you might have made up your mind but here’s my two cents:

I would say you have reached the point of diminishing returns for this job. You have enough to live on for a very long time and can always earn some additional money in the future if required. I would quit and focus on seeking opportunities and developing in other areas of my life.

I would liken staying at your job any longer to staying with a tolerable but ultimately unsuitable partner for too long. You might walk right past the woman of your dreams because you’ve settled for safety and comfort. What opportunities will you miss out on by remaining tethered to your employer? How will you grow from the challenge of living without any structure beyond what you create for yourself? Who knows, but I’d say you have more to gain from those things than you do from accumulating more financially.

I'm not saying this is neccesarily the best way for you, just trying to offer a different perspective. I secretly just want to see photos of your van in the middle of nowhere!

[tylerrr]

I would stay and build another 100k at least if you aren't miserable.

Your 3% SWR is too little for me, personally.

Or, if miserable, I would quit and definitely work part time to have a monthly cushion.

[C40]

Update. My employer has agreed to me working 2 weeks per month for (at least) the rest of this year.

I think what has happened is that even though I reached my current retirement target, I had not been mentally preparing to quit. Over the last year I've been focusing specifically on building the camper-van and getting my house ready to sell, and I was actively stopping myself from thinking further into the future than those two things. Now that those are out of the way and I will have much more free time, I think it may only be a short matter of time before I decide to quit.

On the money/SWR part, I'm pretty confident that the years I may spend significantly less than my investment income, coupled with the additional money I am likely to earn from hobbies and work I enjoy will push my net worth higher and SWR lower.