Avoiding Working for Dysfunctional or Failing Companies?

[Gilberto de Piento]

When looking for a new job, how do you avoid working for a dysfunctional or failing company?

Large companies, startups, non profits, government, any type of organization.

[chicago81]

If you find out, please let me know!

One first step would be to avoid the company that I currently work for!

[Did]

Almost all of my working life was spent with dysfunctional organisations, if by functional you mean pleasant, caring etc. Sometimes you get danger money which can speed things up.

[jacob]

Avoiding working for them is pretty easy. Quit! (FU money comes in handy.)

The hard problem is in recognizing them.

Ideally you'd want to recognize them before you start. This is hard because very few people have an interest in telling you about the problems because they have a lot to lose and practically nothing to gain by doing so. However, it is to some degree helpful to know enough management theory to be able to ask pointed questions; e.g. "how does the company typically deal with X issue?" This is not something I would expect anyone straight out of college to be able to do and mostly actual experience is required as well. The point is that you can interview the company just like they are interviewing you. Ask them about case studies? What the company's weaknesses are? ...

After starting, there's the risk of Stockholm syndrome and comfortable misery. However, the strategy is similar except now one should start looking into how other companies or teams are doing and contrast and compare. This connection will also make it easier to make a move should it come to that.

[Tyler9000]

After working for a few dysfunctional companies, I learned a few simple interview questions to quickly identify the worst ones:

- What was the employee turnover in the last year? (Any significant number is a huge red flag. Also listen for pre-packaged explanations -- any mention that "the culture is changing" means that the culture currently sucks.)

- To a peer: Tell me what a typical work day looks like for you. (people not responsible for hiring are surprisingly honest)

- How involved is the manager/owner in the day-to-day business? (Involved or not involved is actually neutral. The important thing is the reaction of the person being asked. You'll very quickly find out if the boss is an aggressive micro-manager or so clueless that it's a problem).

- Give me an example of the most stressful work situation you've experienced here. (Follow-up options: How was it resolved? How often does that happen?)

- To the owner: Tell me about your cash flow. (The good ones will welcome the question and proudly talk about revenues and expenses. The shady ones will dodge the question or start talking in platitudes and motivational speeches.)

[thrifty++]

Quite honestly - I do reference checking. I research the organisation first and try to get to know people who work there. Then I call them to discuss the workplace before even applying. My current job I spoke to three people before applying and I applied through them basically. So it was very effective networking and I had very positive news from all three people and they were right.

If I can't do that pre-application then I ask the organisation two things:

1. Who was the predecessor and where are they now - to find out if anything strange has occurred. Its amazing what you can pick up from body language and tone etc or little negative comments - have dodged bullets with this questioning before

2. Again reference checking - I actually say I would like to speak to someone in the team to find out a bit about workplace culture and type of work to see if it fits. Have also dodged bullets with this.

As another general rule I am slightly wary of small organisations - ie less than 20 people. I find very much that your work experience in these organisations can very much depend on the personalities of the directors. If they are highly emotional people and you do not get on with them it can be an absolute disaster, or if they are incompotent, absent, poorly organised or lack business or financial nouse. With bigger corporations there is more machinery, depersonalisation, and structure around your working environment that you can enlist the help of others to solve issues, mediate, or even shift somewhere else.

[Sclass]

Anyone search their organization on glass door.com?

[jacob]

@Sclass - Yeah ... in my case it was like amazon reviews but 5x more biased. Either they loved it or they hated it.

[chicago81]

@Tyler9000 - THANK YOU for that list of questions. That is an *EXCELLENT* list to ask a prospective employer.

[Tyler9000]

Glad you found it helpful! It has served me well.

@Sclass -- I haven't had much luck with Glassdoor either. Very large companies are so compartmentalized that the feedback is useless. Very small companies have very little feedback. And as Jacob points out, the rest tend to fall on the two extremes and it's hard to get a feel for the average employee.

One other trick I learned is to use Linkedin to track down someone who used to work at the company you're interested in but moved on. If you politely ask for their insight, you'll usually get very candid answers because they have nothing to lose.

@thrifty -- I actually have the opposite opinion on large vs. small companies. I abhor office politics. Yes you're closer to the owner in small companies which sometimes has its drawbacks, but you also have way more influence if you learn how to wield it properly. I always preferred to be noticed than to disappear. When I didn't click with the owner, I learned to move on and find a better fit.

[Scott 2]

The questions above are very good.

Something to keep in mind is every organization has dysfunction. The goal is to find an environment that works for your personality.

A small organization where chaos reigns and I might need to urgently finish something today that I've never done before, just fine with me. Sounds fun.

Finishing that same work in a large org, where it takes a month and I need a dozen sign offs from subject matter experts. No thank you. Keep your nine to five, it's not worth the pain.

A failing organization can also be an opportunity to learn new skills on someone else's dollar, get responsibility a winning company would never trust you with, etc. It's all about the fit for you as an individual.

FU money makes fitting in a lot easier, in my experience.

[Riggerjack]

The larger the organization, the less impact you will have. Depending on you, that can be good or bad.

Unions square all of the above. But you won't need to negotiate your own raises...

There was a time when I was obsessive about maximizing productivity, mine, and my crew's. This was a good thing when I was working for a contractor, with 20-150 people. This was a problem when I went to work for a large Telecom.

If I was looking to get Engaged, I'd want a startup, or a fast moving company, Amazon or something small. If I was looking for a paycheck and a place to rest after hard weekends a large established company or a regulated industry.

What do you want in a job?

[bryan]

on the topic of glassdoor, I just checked my company and its first review from like two years ago from one of the only other workers in the US we hired (and was gone before 1 year) was 2/5 with some complaints and mentioning being heavily underpaid. The next two reviews were from people still working there "pressured" by HR..

I have a feeling the 2/5 was a factor in my subsequent pay raises. So I guess I like glassdoor

[Lucky C]

For large companies, they should have enough Glassdoor reviews that you should be able to find a couple that aren't too extreme and paint a fair picture. Plus, if it's a very large company you can see what "best places to work" types of lists they have appeared on. Those lists can be surprisingly useful! My first workplace was on such a list several years running, but sank lower and eventually dropped off as things got worse. It's a good way to get an idea if people like it there, e.g. Google is consistently on the Fortune Best Places lists but Amazon is not. If your potential workplace has risen up the ranks of a list like that the past few years, it is probably a happy workplace for most of the employees.

For any government job, you can probably safely assume it will be like any other government job out there - slow, bureaucratic, but secure - unless proven otherwise.

Startups are of course hard to predict, but if you're really interested in working for one you should do your research to see how they stack up against the competition, if they are profitable or ever could be, etc. If you could invest in them, would you?

[Scott 2]

Best places lists are a recruiting tool used by HR. Smaller ones often require pay to play. Take them with a grain of salt.

One of the challenges I see with a review site is your team culture could be far removed from the company culture. The individuals you work with create the experience.

Someone who understands how to navigate politics also has a much different experience. I watched a fresh college grad at my wife's work cozy up to a reviled CEO, follow him through a firing, and now hold a senior position at the new company in her mid 20s. It's working for her.