Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
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trad3rm8
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Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by trad3rm8 »

Hi,
I used to work in IT, until I got fired for a DUI (leaving superbowl party, not driving during work). There is a state university which will charge me about 15-18k and basically give me a 4 year degree in Business Administration, but I don't think I will learn anything useful. The program does not offer accounting courses, IT courses, or anything I can actually get a job with... It is just for a 4 year BS degree in Business administration.

I already have an AA degree in business administration, and about 4-5 years in IT (all at a very low level, setting up computer labs, repairing desktops, and a little bit of SQL/Database work).

I used to lie about having a 4 year degree and it worked very well, no one ever checks to see if you have a real degree if your not a licensed professional like a Nurse, CPA, Lawyer.

Do you think it would be worth getting a real 4 year degree for the cost of $18,000 US dollars, or will the money be better spent in VTI for an unemployed 27 year old?

jacob
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by jacob »

At current valuations, you can expect VTI to return around 0% per year for the next decade UNLESS valuations have ascended to a permanently high level relative to the 20th century. As for whether a degree is worth it, I don't know. Usually degrees are required to get your foot in the door and allow you to get real experience. If you're already in/have experience, degrees are less useful.

JamesR
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by JamesR »

Yeah if you already have IT experience, I'd keep at it. Get another IT job and develop your experience & career that way. Go in the right direction and you could be making $60k+ within 2-3 years? I dunno, depends a lot on your area, and skills.

If you wanted $100k+ then become a javascript web developer (node/react) and go to a major city for tech, like San Fran. You could consider doing a bootcamp like http://www.appacademy.io/

Getting fired for a DUI sounds a bit strange to me, unless it was one of those geeks-on-wheels services? Can you get references for your job hunt or did you burn your bridges with that company?

Tyler9000
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by Tyler9000 »

So I was going to ask whether the OP had considered whether his AA credits transfer to the school he has talked to, since $18k for an extra 2 years at a state school sounds really high and I assumed that was the 4-year price. Then I Googled it and discovered that the average in-state tuition is currently over $9k/yr. Wow.

Screw that. In IT, you can get a lot more education value for a fraction of that price. I agree that some sort of coding certificate/credential would be a lot more valuable. At this point, the real gap in your resume is your demonstrated skills, not the initials before your degree. Identify your weaknesses, and strengthen them with targeted education.

FWIW, lying about your degree is a really bad idea. It'll work just fine until it gets you fired and destroys your reputation and any future employment potential.

BRUTE
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by BRUTE »

brute recommends the move from "IT" to development. better hours, better pay, more fulfilling, more respect. Tyler9000 is right that if there is indeed an industry where degrees don't matter, it's IT. same is true for developers.

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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by jacob »

Tyler9000 wrote: FWIW, lying about your degree is a really bad idea. It'll work just fine until it gets you fired and destroys your reputation and any future employment potential.
+1

Specialized fields are surprisingly small, even in industry: There's a lot of 'inbreeding' and people talk to each other and transfer in between companies, which means that getting on the (s)hit-list of any one company effectively means or at least risks getting barred/banned from the entire field.

JamesR
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by JamesR »

BTW, as a uni dropout my resume, in the education spot at the bottom of the resume where I list the universities I studied at, I basically say "Studied, Computer Science & Engineering" since I was taking a engineering track and picked up a bunch of computer science classes. I think I've only been asked once about my education in the 15 or so job interviews I've been to (web developer focused). No need for me to lie. I'm not even sure people would notice if it was missing the education section.. But you can just basically list the things you've studied, maybe not as part of university but other certifications and awesome stuff you've done before.

thrifty++
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by thrifty++ »

I say the degree would be financially unwise. The cost of it plus the opportunity cost would be unwise especially compared to all the money making and saving and investing you could be doing during that 4 year period.
I would plug away at trying to find new work and in the meantime see if you can grow your IT skills for free. I think there are lots of free or extremely cheap courses online which are skills focussed.
Surprise your work sacked you for a DUI. How was that relevant if it was out of work time? Did you need to drive for your job?
Agree with the others about not lying about having a degree. I have seen lying come back to bite people in the ass so many times. I have a personal approach of never lying ever in relation to any business type transactions for that reason. When you approach things without any lies at all it also ends up making you more confident and certain about your arguments and justifications for every action taken.

ether
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by ether »

I would skip the degree, and maybe consider just saying you have an associates.
Why not try getting a cert like CCNA or Security+ ?
Trust me there are a lot of places looking for IT talent.
Why not check out the job fair hosted by the university you were considering attending, that is how to got my job.

trad3rm8
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by trad3rm8 »

Hi again guys.
I looked at the school I got my AA degree from (Community College, but 10 times better than the local CSU including teachers).
They created three new AA programs Business programming, Systems Programming and Network Programming.

The classes are all the same, but the student basically gets to pick what the degree is actually called.

The courses are essentially Visual basic, C++, C++ class 2, Databases, Networking, and a java course or something.

There are other courses required like Accounting, intro to business, but I already have all of the business courses finished.

This degree will be super cheap probably about 2500-3,000 (not including financial aid/incentives for attending school).

It gives me some sort of credibility when it comes to IT. I have worked with many people in IT, who had 0 skills, and were essentially just a bunch of cable monkeys, plugging in computers, swapping out mice, and resetting passwords. Fake it till you make it types, which works very well for some types of IT departments (government cough cough).

I think this fast 5-6 course degree is worth the money, and it might help me emigrate to Australia, NZ which will help me find work (because of the DUI).

JamesR
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by JamesR »

It seems to me that 'business programming' might sound the most impressive to the average HR/non-tech types, and 'systems programming' might sound the most realistic.

It sounds like a great idea because you're building a narrative that has you growing from your biz admin AA into IT and then into a programming AA, and that becomes your launching pad into a new career. To pick up those programming courses and get a new AA out of it for $3k sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

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Sclass
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by Sclass »

Depends on you. I get asked this by a lot of young people.

If you are uncreative, unadventurous, fearful and cannot quickly answer the question "*what would you like to do?" Better get some formal education. Four years is a good place to start for a really boring individual. You'll need the credentials to move along. (Skills are another question since most of the skilled professionals I work with actually picked up the skills after graduation from 4 year university, though they seldomly confess it).

Here is an extreme in the other direction. I struck up a conversation with a burly guy at my favorite pastrami shop (open yourself to randomness - but this belongs in the luck/success thread) and he told me he makes $200,000 a year as a pest controller. We were talking about this same subject. He is considering sending his daughter to college so she could be like...well, me I guess.

Now I don't want to be a pest controller, but my point is "worth it" is a squishy subject. This guy got trained in a few weeks, worked a few years, then started his own business and takes the hard earned money of college grads who are too squeamish to set a rat trap.

* answers to this question can vary from "I want to be a blank" to "I want to rob you, hit you, rape you, sell you some cheap greeting cards, investigate you, understand you, cold call you, offer you a sensual massage."

EdithKeeler
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by EdithKeeler »

I think this fast 5-6 course degree is worth the money, and it might help me emigrate to Australia, NZ which will help me find work (because of the DUI).
I am confused by this. I don't understand why you were fired for having a DUI when you weren't actually on the job when it happened. How do they even know? Are you required to drive for work? Did you lose your license and can't legally drive? If that's the case, I'm wondering if you can't apply to get special leave to use the car to and from work.

I'm also not following the thread of DUI--->get degree---->leave country (because of DUI?).

Only reason I ask is that I have a good friend who has 6 DUIs and a felony record as a repeat DUI offender (yeah, he had a bit of a problem.... better now). He lost his driver's license for a year, and then was on probation for 8 years where he had to have an Interlock on his car (blow and test BAL before you can start the car). He continued to work the entire time--didn't lose his law license because alcoholism is a "disability" or "medical issue" and they can't disbar you for that (at least in that state--not sure about others).

Back in my younger, wilder days I, too, had a DUI, though the laws weren't quite as stiff then (though just starting to become so--I was lucky that it happened when it did, because the law changed about a month after my transgression...Cost me some money, but fell off my record after a year--I was VERY lucky).

In my job I see commercial drivers who have prior DUIs, though usually a while back (like a year or two).

I guess I'm just wondering 1) how long ago this happened and 2) if recent (just this January?), I'm wondering if you might just be freaking out a little bit over the whole thing, which I agree can be totally overwhelming. Have you tried to get another job since you lost yours? I just know that IT people are generally in very strong demand, and depending on what your skills are IT-wise, I'm sure a lot of employers would look past a DUI as long as you deal with it with them up front and explain the situation (not drinking on the job, etc).

All of that said, I personally think a 4 year degree is never a bad idea, just from an education and credential perspective... but at the same time, if you're unemployed and counting on a degree to solve all your issues, I don't think that going into debt to get it right now would be worth it.

trad3rm8
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by trad3rm8 »

I was on 6 months probation for starting the job, the DUI occurred in the 6th month. I did not need to drive for the job, but the place had an incredibly strict HR department.

I have had three interviews recently with similar organizations and all of them require background checks.

I have been looking around the mental/behavioral health industry and the criminal justice industry recently and it seems like a sweet deal.

For example teaching DUI classes you can charge people $700 and have a customer that is desperate to pay you.
The company has to be a 'non profit', and you have to get the local county person's blessing to be able to do start the non-profit.

As far as getting a real career for a business in USA, I give up...

The only way I am going to be working here is if I run my own business, or else people will see my DUI and refuse me for a decent job, or pay me $8 a hour.

It happened this February, I probably am freaking out, but I do not see the problem with attempting to immigrate to a country for a chance at a clean record.

After I was fired my first instinct was to start a pest control company, made an ad on craigslist, and even had a Chinese restaurant wanting to hire me.

Emailed my uncle across the country who works for the best/largest company in the industry, and he told me I need an applicators license.
Turns out I need an applicators license for like 6 months, then I can get a field service license and I need that for 2 years, then I can get my operators license and that gives me the privileged of starting a pest control company.

(Takes minimum of 2 years before you can think of starting a pest control company in my state).

Pest control is the worst industry for people with DUI's, for a good reason... Lots of driving, dangerous chemicals, and 90% of the work is done at night.

I will never drink and drive again, but I know pest control and my record will not mix for at least 9 years and 8 months (expungement time).

trad3rm8
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by trad3rm8 »

I was on 6 months probation for starting the job, the DUI occurred in the 6th month. I did not need to drive for the job, but the place had an incredibly strict HR department. The job required a driver license, even though I never had to drive once for the job.

I have had three interviews recently with similar organizations and all of them require background checks.

As far as getting a real career in the USA, I give up...

I have been looking around the privatized segments of the behavioral health/criminal justice, and they seem super profitable.

The only way I am going to be working here is if I run my own business, or else people will see my DUI and refuse me for a decent job, or pay me $8 a hour.

It happened this February, I probably am freaking out, but I do not see the problem with attempting to immigrate to a country for a chance at a clean record.

After I was fired my first instinct was to start a pest control company, made an ad on craigslist, and even had a Chinese restaurant wanting to hire my company (not a legal company, just a marketing test run). He had a huge rat problem, and all I had to do was to throw traps every where and put some poison near the dumpster, but the problem was placing poison in a restaurant is a dumb thing to do if your not doing it legally.

Emailed my uncle across the country who works for the best/largest company in the industry, and he told me I need an applicators license.
Turns out I need an applicators license for like 6 months, then I can get a field service license and I need that for 2 years, then I can get my operators license and that gives me the privilege of starting a pest control company.

(Takes minimum of 2 years before you can think of starting a pest control company in my state).

Pest control is the worst industry for people with DUI's, for a good reason... Lots of driving, dangerous chemicals, and 90% of the work is done at night.

I will never drink and drive again, but I know there are some fields I can not work in for another 9 years and 8 months (pest control, locked in mental health units, jails, prisons, police, sheriff, and nursing).

JamesR
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by JamesR »

Most IT jobs aren't going to look for a DUI. Just go get another IT job??

SimpleLife
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Re: Is a 4 year degree worth it?

Post by SimpleLife »

trad3rm8 wrote:Hi,
I used to work in IT, until I got fired for a DUI (leaving superbowl party, not driving during work). There is a state university which will charge me about 15-18k and basically give me a 4 year degree in Business Administration, but I don't think I will learn anything useful. The program does not offer accounting courses, IT courses, or anything I can actually get a job with... It is just for a 4 year BS degree in Business administration.

I already have an AA degree in business administration, and about 4-5 years in IT (all at a very low level, setting up computer labs, repairing desktops, and a little bit of SQL/Database work).

I used to lie about having a 4 year degree and it worked very well, no one ever checks to see if you have a real degree if your not a licensed professional like a Nurse, CPA, Lawyer.

Do you think it would be worth getting a real 4 year degree for the cost of $18,000 US dollars, or will the money be better spent in VTI for an unemployed 27 year old?

No one checks to see if a nurse has a degree? They are required to have one just to take the licensing exam. They don't just say they have a degree and fake their way through the day. Same with lawyers and CPA's. Most states require a Masters degree or near equivalent credits to sit for the CPA exams. Others require a Bachelors degree.Lawyers must have a JD from an ABA accredited program to sit for the BAR exam. To get into an ABA accredited law school you must have a four year degree from a regionally accredited four year school. I'm not sure you understand how these things actually work. Background checks at most known companies would reveal whether you lied about your education or not. Bob's trucking would probably not. Based on your post, I would say no, a degree will do you no good. To top it off, with a DUI on your record, I would focus on something blue collar like HVAC or Electrical. They are usually union and pay well.

If you've worked in IT for 5 years and have not been offered/advanced to a six figure job, you're in the wrong line of work. I was offered six figure jobs within a year, with people beating down my door and offering signing bonuses.

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