Should I avoid listening to my academic advisor? Or find another one?

[TopHatFox]

Everytime I talk to her I feel more defeated and depressed than when I started

For instance, I share I want to be financially independent, she says: "that's great, but be aware that your goals will likely change and become harder when you find a wife and kids"

I share I really like to talk one-on-one and I'm good at PF so I want to be a financial advisor or asset manager, she counters: "I have 15 million dollars to invest, what credentials do you have to help me invest it?"

I say I'd like to learn french the last three semesters of college, she says: "baby languages --those started as a junior or senior-- are only useful for memorization, you're better off taking a class that involves deeper thought. Have you thought of taking econ classes, or maybe joining the [republican-owned] investment club?"

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Honestly, I just want an adviser that listens to me and that I can bounce ideas off comfortably. This relationship seems so one-sided that if I feel confused when I start the conversation, I feel like shit after I leave...

[jacob]

Don't expect too much/anything out of your "academic advisor". It's a combination of their autobiography and middle class values. That is "if you worked hard in your field during the 1970s you'd almost surely get tenure and you can use 15% of that 'guaranteed' income to save up the several million dollars they wish they'd made in shorter order had they gone to Wall Street during the 1980s. This would be the only way to 'win' the game."

Most advise [anywhere] comprise some regurgitation of the advisor's autobiography. Few people giving advise make an effort to try many different strategies --- most people seeking advice seek out the most successful person in that one field; not the person who has tried many different things. This is a dumb way to seek advice.

[C40]

If your post is a good representation of your discussions with her, you should either find a new advisor or not ask her for advice. Do note that her reply to your wanting to study french was probably good advice relating to your desire to be a financial advisor or asset manager. She could've phrased it better, like "If your main goal is to work in finance, how much does French help?..... What would help more? Have you considered things like taking an econ. class or joining an investing club?"

It does seem that the things you're talking to her about are sort of all over the board. If you talk to her more, it may work better to clarify your main goal with her, and then structure the things you discuss in relation to achieving that main goal. (For your discussion with her, the goal is about your education and preparing you for work. That's what she is supposed to advise you on.)

[m741]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second here....

For instance, I share I want to be financially independent, she says: "that's great, but be aware that your goals will likely change and become harder when you find a wife and kids"

Maybe you're 100% certain that you don't want a wife and kids, and you're 100% certain that desire won't change. In which case, she's just wrong. But if you do decide to get married or have kids, your goals will probably change. For instance, if you have kids, you'll likely need more savings. Or perhaps she didn't realize that 'financial independence' to you means the ability to take care of kids, not just yourself.

I share I really like to talk one-on-one and I'm good at PF so I want to be a financial advisor or asset manager, she counters: "I have 15 million dollars to invest, what credentials do you have to help me invest it?"

Maybe she was saying that, in order to be a financial advisor, it's a good idea to earn credentials? It's not a prerequisite, but of course it would help you out a lot (this interpretation lines up with the next quote).

I say I'd like to learn french the last three semesters of college, she says: "baby languages --those started as a junior or senior-- are only useful for memorization, you're better off taking a class that involves deeper thought. Have you thought of taking econ classes, or maybe joining the [republican-owned] investment club?"

Maybe she sees that you're a pragmatic person with well-defined goals. If so, and you really do care about being a financial advisor, then both econ classes and the investment club are probably better suited to achieving your goals. You say it's "republican-owned" to as if that's a big problem... but as a financial advisor, half your clients are likely to be republicans - so joining the club would be a good education on how to talk with them constructively.

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Ultimately, of course, what she meant is something that only she knows. Maybe she really was dismissive... or maybe there was just a misunderstanding. I don't think my interpretations above are a stretch.

But if you're looking for academic advice, and you think she's being dismissive, then I think you probably already know the answer to the question: it's unlikely that you'll get much out of having her as an advisor. Either she isn't listening to you, or you aren't listening to her.

[GandK]

Of course your goals will change with time. Your point of view will change as you mature, and this will lead to new goals. That doesn't mean she's right about what those goals will evolve into.

I think Jacob is right. To me, this situation feels a lot like the John Mayer "real world" debate we all end up in as a young person... where adults around you like to shake their finger and say things like "when you get out there in the real world..." and you eventually realize that "the real world" is whatever world the speaker inhabits.

If you want to end up like her, do what she says. If you want to end up like someone else, find that person and ask their advice.

[Ego]

For instance, I share I want to be financially independent, she says: "that's great, but be aware that your goals will likely change and become harder when you find a wife and kids"

Isn't the presumption that you will find a wife an executable offense at Amherst? Tar and feathers at the minimum.

[saving-10-years]

@Zalo - it does sound as though there is a mismatch in personality here, perhaps the tone in which she offers this advice is an issue for you? Please remember that most of the students she sees will present visions of what they wish to do which are NOT what actually will happen and a fair number of your peers may not have thought those plans through. If you ask an academic to comment on future plans they are much more likely - as a matter of training - to pick those plans to bits than to agree that you have the answer. They may suggest weaknesses or float ideas of things you could do differently.

My reading of the advice about learning French at this stage could well be that she sees this as using the facilities at a higher education institution to learn things that can be learnt/obtained elsewhere. Perhaps discussing investment with people outside of your usual circles might be something that you can do at your college and gain from uniquely (not available as say French 101 would be elsewhere). For example if you become a financial advisor as a job then you will presumably need to advise republicans and some insight might come in handy? (Am I now sounding like her?)

Its not really her job to agree with you but instead to advise you. As long as she offers advice which you may not have considered (or appear not to have considered) and its reasonable or objectively useful then she sounds like she is doing her job. Her message from what you say appears to be 'Sounds like a plan, convince me/let me think of things that could help you within the context of this college (opportunities/resources'. Perhaps approach her with a problem instead of a solution next time and see whether you get better exchange of ideas?

FWIW I have heard of MUCH WORSE academic advice than this. Changing to someone else is not likely to be the answer unless you have someone who you know could offer better advice. Good luck.

[Did]

I know many here have an academic background, but my respect for these characters has plummeted in the 15 years since I first started university study. Sorry, 25 years. Damn. Being a smart cookie funnelled from one system to another, with a whole new crowd of masters to please, I used to look up to them and even dream of a PhD (ended up with BSc(Hons) LLb(Hons) and travelled and worked instead).

Fun time in my life, but too many years and looking back I see it is often the most awkward, narrow minded and frankly useless people who stay in the system. The real game is in the real world, and an advisor such as this is literally the last person I would ask for any advice except perhaps in their narrow little field of academic thought and what you need to do to get your probably worthless and overpriced bit of paper.

Meanwhile, real life ticks on...

[Dragline]

For instance, I share I want to be financially independent, she says: "that's great, but be aware that your goals will likely change and become harder when you find a wife and kids"

Isn't the presumption that you will find a wife an executable offense at Amherst? Tar and feathers at the minimum.

Even worse, the advisor assumes that the wife will be a drag on income and not a boon.

When we all know that Z is probably going to find himself a 40-something sugar-mama and live large on easy street.

Going back to the OP, I agree with the comments that your expectations of this person and her advice are probably too high. No academic advisor is going to really help you plan your life, unless you are essentially following their path.

Life is a lot of trial and error, especially in your 20s. But your best advice is likely to come from people who are on the paths you are thinking of going down.

I'm still voting for the sugar-mama. But I want pictures.

[7Wannabe5]

Dragline said: When we all know that Z is probably going to find himself a 40-something sugar-mama and live large on easy street.

Lol- Urban myth. Zero-percent shortage of attractive men in their 20s willing to deliver themselves like free pizzas to women in their 40s. Although, if Zalo would like to be financially supported by a wealthy woman in her 70s in the role of something like very courteous stand-in-grandson-escort, that is a definite possibility, and I would highly recommend ballroom dance as a course of study.

Seriously, his adviser did say "wife and kids", and we should recognize that raising a child does require an investment of approximately 70,000 hours of life-energy, directly or indirectly spent. If Zalo were to raise two kids on his own, that would likely be about the same expense as financially supporting a frugal stay-at-home-wife and two kids, or vice-versa if Zalo were to be the stay-at-home parent, But, there is no way this equation works out to a good deal for either party if they do not want to raise children themselves. Outside of co-parenting division of labor, the main reason why one partner will choose to financially support their SO is that they are asking for a great deal of flexibility in terms of proximity, availability and mobility. For instance, if somebody has enough money/leisure to want to sail around randomly for 9 months of the year, then they will either have to go solo, find a partner who is similarly resource laden, or provide financial support to a partner who isn't as well-off. The retirement dating market reality, IME, is that above a certain net-worth/income, most retired men would rather financially support a partner who is at least 7 years younger than split expenses even-Steven with a partner their own age or older. So, reasonably attractive, single Gen-X females who do not have or want children can acquire younger Millennial stud-muffins or older Boomer sugar-daddies with no difficulty whatsoever. Therefore, the market demand in the other direction would only exist in conjunction with desire for children/step-father for existing children and/or not being even reasonably attractive.

[Ydobon]

Have you considered that you are oversharing?

I can't see why FI is a topic that you would ever need to discuss with an academic advisor. Even if you think it's relevant to a career path, you probably still wouldn't mention it. Would you go into a job interview and say that your sole purpose for wanting their job is to save as much money as you can so that you can leave it as soon as you can, leaving them to recruit someone else?

It's one thing to share you stream of consciousness on forums such as this, but if you bounce as many ideas off of people in 'real' life as you do here, the poor woman is probably exhausted

Try and focus a bit more and stop expecting so much from someone who isn't in post to design your life for you, but to offer some helpful pointers/a listening ear for your *academic* goals.

[enigmaT120]

I never talked with my adviser, just got him to sign whatever I needed signed. It's too bad, since it wasn't until my junior year that he asked what my minor was. I told him I didn't want one, I was taking so many different science classes in different fields that it was almost like 5 minors already, but no major. He said I had to have one! I tried to make it dance, as I had so many hours of it already, but couldn't juggle my schedule to fit it in with all the rehearsals, so I had to settle for math.

[Lemon]

Hey well you are meeting and discussing things with them. This is one up on me with most of my Supervisors who I spent the minimal amount of time interacting with by and large just enough to convince them I wasn't going to fail, which was pretty much their only priority.

I did have one sympathetic one who was supportive of my candid 'I hate this credentialism and career pathway' and did suggest there are plenty of alternatives and if one fits go for it. Alas I was reassigned after 2 meetings.

Although being directly contradictory in order to get you to be sure it is what you want is sometimes invaluable and MIGHT be the plan here. I know for me being attempted to be pigeonholed makes me do the best to 'fight back'

You might have a careers department that can be more helpful? Or find a more sympathetic member of faculty/whatever than the one assigned...

[George the original one]

I think C40 has the best interpretation if you view her as challenging your notions.

[EdithKeeler]

Honestly, I just want an adviser that listens to me and that I can bounce ideas off comfortably. This relationship seems so one-sided that if I feel confused when I start the conversation, I feel like shit after I leave...

I just wonder if you're expecting too much of your advisor. Unless academic advising has changed a lot since I went to college (entirely possible...I'm old), my advisor was there to help me figure out what classes to take in what order so I could complete my desired major and minor. Period. So he was like, "Well, they only offer this one in the fall and it's required for your major, and it fills up quick, so you should probably try to get that one in this semester; if you don't, you can try again next year," or "this is a good one to take in the summer if you're thinking about summer school and just need some hours."

She's not a therapist, I'm guessing she doesn't care that your goal is financial independence or any other personal goals beyond successfully graduating from college within a reasonable period of time. I mean, you might have a conversation like this: "I'm thinking about majoring in either Econ or Finance," and she says "Well, you already have more than half the hours for econ. Do want to do something practical when you graduate, or are you thinking about getting a PhD?" I just wonder how relevant the rest of the stuff is regarding FI, or even taking French. Presumably you have electives, or that's even something to take online in a MOOC or at the local community college, if you just want to become able to speak in daily life. Or self study and join a French language meetup (people get together at Starbucks or wherever and practice speaking their language. I used to be a member of a German group like that). I'm guessing that may be what she meant--though poorly expressed--that this late in your college career--and with the cost of college--you might want to think about taking classes with more substance and relevance to your career and other goals, rather than taking significant class time to learn French when you could give Rosetta Stone a try.